trace bi amping?preamping? dont know which?

[witterth]

Right,...
Ive got some trace cabs (1x15/4x10) and an old ah500 stereo gp11 head. (1980s) all in great working order..
the question is chaps,
I also have a "smx" range ah250w head (1990s) that I like the compression/pre shape/tuner fx output option toys..how do I? (or can I?) use/link the ah500 as purely a power amp and use the smx as a kind of Pre amp for its "toys", as I say?
and do I need "special" leads to do this?
I'm quite thick really!!
ATB
W

Edited May 2, 2010 by witterth

[witterth]

Any one about?

[witterth]

Edited May 2, 2010 by witterth

[obbm]

Need to check the schematics but the obvious thing to do is connect the FX 2 Send of the SMX to the FX return of the AH500 using a short instrument lead. or even a long one just to test it.

The FX send/return is typically located between the pre-amp out and the power amp in.

Edited May 2, 2010 by obbm

[witterth]

that simple eh?
I was worried about the whole link front to front or back to back or vice versa thing ? I was told to be careful.... (does that make sense to anyone?)
thanks obbm
btw!
so The amp is the same an fx pedal effectivley? no speaker output/connection worries me(!)
and just a normal j/j cable then?
would that mean the fx loop on the smx head would work for octaver/ tuner/ chorus?
oh god! sorry for being dumb!

[Dood]

[quote name='witterth' post='826099' date='May 3 2010, 12:36 AM']that simple eh?[/quote]

Yup, I agree with OBBM too.

[quote name='witterth' post='826099' date='May 3 2010, 12:36 AM']I was worried about the whole link front to front or back to back or vice versa thing ? I was told to be careful.... (does that make sense to anyone?)
thanks obbm
btw![/quote]
I can understand that you may have been told to be careful - as in, staying away from connecting the speaker terminals in to another amp for example. I've seen it done in the past. As Dave has said - basically an amp 'head' typically contains a preamp section (the bit with the gain control, EQ, compressor etc) and a poweramp (call it the engine - the bit that drives the speakers up to stage volume) - Those sections are usually separated by the effects loop connections. Some amplifiers DO differ so do not take this as a rule. So being as you have an ability to part the preamp and the poweramp using *just* a cable, means that you can use the preamp section from one box and feed it to the poweramp section of another box.

[quote name='witterth' post='826099' date='May 3 2010, 12:36 AM']so The amp is the same an fx pedal effectivley? no speaker output/connection worries me(!)[/quote]
Well.. I assume you are referring to the preamp, (as descrbed above) - it does run at very low signal levels, similar to effect pedals, yes - but the output of the preamp is specifically designed to send the correct level of signal to a power amplifier which is usually a lot stronger than the signal out of your bass. There is a differentiation between those levels - one is called 'Line Level' the other, not surprisingly is called 'Instrument Level' - neither is anywhere strong enogh to drive a speaker properly.

[quote name='witterth' post='826099' date='May 3 2010, 12:36 AM']and just a normal j/j cable then?[/quote]
Yep, 1/4" jack to jack instrument cable (NOT a speaker cable)

[quote name='witterth' post='826099' date='May 3 2010, 12:36 AM']would that mean the fx loop on the smx head would work for octaver/ tuner/ chorus?
oh god! sorry for being dumb![/quote]

I'd also have to check out the manuals for the trace heads mentioned - but there are probably more ways than one of configuring your effects in as well for best results.

[witterth]

[quote name='dood' post='826121' date='May 3 2010, 01:46 AM']Yup, I agree with OBBM too.


I can understand that you may have been told to be careful - as in, staying away from connecting the speaker terminals in to another amp for example. I've seen it done in the past. As Dave has said - basically an amp 'head' typically contains a preamp section (the bit with the gain control, EQ, compressor etc) and a poweramp (call it the engine - the bit that drives the speakers up to stage volume) - Those sections are usually separated by the effects loop connections. Some amplifiers DO differ so do not take this as a rule. So being as you have an ability to part the preamp and the poweramp using *just* a cable, means that you can use the preamp section from one box and feed it to the poweramp section of another box.


Well.. I assume you are referring to the preamp, (as descrbed above) - it does run at very low signal levels, similar to effect pedals, yes - but the output of the preamp is specifically designed to send the correct level of signal to a power amplifier which is usually a lot stronger than the signal out of your bass. There is a differentiation between those levels - one is called 'Line Level' the other, not surprisingly is called 'Instrument Level' - neither is anywhere strong enogh to drive a speaker properly.


Yep, 1/4" jack to jack instrument cable (NOT a speaker cable)



I'd also have to check out the manuals for the trace heads mentioned - but there are probably more ways than one of configuring your effects in as well for best results.[/quote]
thanks for that dood!
I know you know what your'e on about!!
But just to double check though, has any one got any Trace manual(s) (old&new) just to be sure
I'm that unsure I'd need pictures!
btw, cable doesnt have to be a stereo jack or owt like that does it? (dood/obbm?)
thanks for the help/advice BTW
W
still not sure
smx fx send to where on AH500? line in(?)
I Don't really get it
told you I was dumb!!

Edited May 3, 2010 by witterth

[obbm]

[quote name='witterth' post='826157' date='May 3 2010, 07:39 AM']thanks for that dood!
I know you know what your'e on about!!
But just to double check though, has any one got any Trace manual(s) (old&new) just to be sure
I'm that unsure I'd need pictures!
btw, cable doesnt have to be a stereo jack or owt like that does it? (dood/obbm?)
thanks for the help/advice BTW
W[/quote]

PM me your email and I'll send you some manuals later.

Cable just ordinary mono instrument lead.

[Mog]

Sorry lad,cant really help with the set up but you might get the manual here:

[url="http://www.britishaudioservice.com/trace_operateinstru.shtml"]http://www.britishaudioservice.com/trace_operateinstru.shtml[/url]

[witterth]

[quote name='Mog' post='826160' date='May 3 2010, 07:47 AM']Sorry lad,cant really help with the set up but you might get the manual here:

[url="http://www.britishaudioservice.com/trace_operateinstru.shtml"]http://www.britishaudioservice.com/trace_operateinstru.shtml[/url][/quote]
Thanks!

[MB1]

MB1.
..."BANG!....Frankie Says No More!"
...."If it ain't Broke dont fix it!..and if your not Sure?....Don't F**k with it!"
...Should save ya a few quid!

Edited May 3, 2010 by MB1

[Ghost_Bass]

Hope i'm not saying anything stupid, but if you want all the preamp gadgets on the SMX working you can't connect the FX send to the other amp because you loose the compression (and probably the noise reduction if existing) seccion wich come after the FX section and the FX loop itself.
In my idea the best way to do that link is to connect all the preamp seccion from the DI out in post eq mode to the fx input on the power amp! That way you have all the preamp section comming out the SMX and entering in the nearest point of the power amp section... Simply use a XLR<--->1/4 mono Jack to do it!
Wait till someone supports my idea before trying it though, i may be wrong

Cheers

[obbm]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='826685' date='May 3 2010, 06:25 PM']Hope i'm not saying anything stupid, but if you want all the preamp gadgets on the SMX working you can't connect the FX send to the other amp because you loose the compression (and probably the noise reduction if existing) seccion wich come after the FX section and the FX loop itself.
In my idea the best way to do that link is to connect all the preamp seccion from the DI out in post eq mode to the fx input on the power amp! That way you have all the preamp section comming out the SMX and entering in the nearest point of the power amp section... Simply use a XLR<--->1/4 mono Jack to do it!
Wait till someone supports my idea before trying it though, i may be wrong

Cheers[/quote]

SMX has 2 FX sends. FX1 is before the compressor, FX2 is after the compressor and just before the power stage.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='obbm' post='826695' date='May 3 2010, 06:32 PM']SMX has 2 FX sends. FX1 is before the compressor, FX2 is after the compressor and just before the power stage.[/quote]

Oh! In that case ignore my thoughts

Cheers

[witterth]

You know...
the other thing that occured to me was,
as MB1 so elloquently put it, "bang!!"
will it matter that the smx head is not powering speakers? is it enough just to turn stage output (green knob) to nought ? if its (smx)being used as a pre amp, I wont be "hurting it" will I? you know, pushing out power with nowhere to go type of thing (do you get me techies??)
Gig tonight...any one know?
if obbm/dood/ghost not around!!
thanks for being patient with me!!

[obbm]

[quote name='witterth' post='831512' date='May 8 2010, 03:28 PM']You know...
the other thing that occured to me was,
as MB1 so elloquently put it, "bang!!"
will it matter that the smx head is not powering speakers? is it enough just to turn stage output (green knob) to nought ? if its (smx)being used as a pre amp, I wont be "hurting it" will I? you know, pushing out power with nowhere to go type of thing (do you get me techies??)
Gig tonight...any one know?
if obbm/dood/ghost not around!!
thanks for being patient with me!![/quote]

It is quite acceptable and safe to leave a solid-state amp without any load i.e. speakers, anyway by inserting a jack into the Effects Send output ( to take the signal to the AH) you will be disconnecting any signal going to the power amp.

[witterth]

[quote name='obbm' post='831517' date='May 8 2010, 03:37 PM']It is quite acceptable and safe to leave a solid-state amp without any load i.e. speakers, anyway by inserting a jack into the Effects Send output ( to take the signal to the AH) you will be disconnecting any signal going to the power amp.[/quote]
Thanks (again) obbm!!
a gent if ever there was one readers!!
W

[Alien]

[quote name='obbm' post='831517' date='May 8 2010, 03:37 PM']by inserting a jack into the Effects Send output ( to take the signal to the AH) you will be disconnecting any signal going to the power amp.[/quote]

Not necessarily the case. Most amps have the cut out on the FX [b]return[/b] jack, so that anything plugged into the return removes the preamp from the equation. A lot of the time, the FX send can be used as an additional line level output, in parallel with the loop.

A

[obbm]

[quote name='Alien' post='831606' date='May 8 2010, 05:32 PM']Not necessarily the case. Most amps have the cut out on the FX [b]return[/b] jack, so that anything plugged into the return removes the preamp from the equation. A lot of the time, the FX send can be used as an additional line level output, in parallel with the loop.

A[/quote]

Good call Andy. I was going to say something about the return but didn't want to confuse. Stick a blank jack in the FX return socket to be sure.