TAB

[Bilbo]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='783495' date='Mar 23 2010, 02:38 PM']Am I missing something [/quote]

Your call.

I guess it depends on what your musical ambitions are. If you only every play within your comfort zone and rarely play with other readers, you may not find it that useful. I rarely do a reading gig but I do use the skill a LOT on gigs (my fake books are in Bass clef so I can use melody lines as prompts for solo ideas etc and to make for more interesting arrangements).

Here's a for instance: I recently took up the double bass (December) and, in an effort to find some inspiration over and above scales and improvisaed noodling, I spent last Friday evening playing the famous Bach Cello Suite in G Major (the wole thing, not just the first bit that everyone knows). I learned it (by rote but from the sheet music) in around 1986, before I could read properly, and last played it around that time. I read it through this week without any difficulty (its a relatively easy read, in reality) - how much time did that save me? That evening, I also played (IIRC) a Dave Holland chart, a Paul Chambers transcription (one of my own) and started another transcription of a Dave Holland piece. Had I relied only on my ear (which is good), I would still be on the sixth bar of the cello suite and probably playing it wrong. I have been to rehearsals where, in three hours, we have looked through You're Everything by Return To Forever, Aja by Steely Dan and The Goodbye Look by Fagen. Trying to nail all that by ear/rote would not have been possible in the time available. We could, of course, have played Fly Me To The Moon, Take Five and Autumn Leaves but I was doing that in 1988!!

I get that people don't NEED it but all I am saying (again and again) is it is REALLY useful thing to be able to do. And, as I stress time and again, its not that hard. Why would you not?!!

[Les]

I wish I'd titled this" TAB has robbed my ear", not "made me lazy", cos' that's what I really meant. I also think I was outraged that no one had bothered to work a song out, then tab it, then upload it for my convenience.

You'd have to be in denial or just being a t*at and winding people up to say reading music isn't a good thing.

Totally take the pro's view on it, can't imagine you surviving without it. I was more on about learning songs, not being able to roll up and read it, fasntastic though that must be.

Anyway, it's horses for courses, I play in a pubrock band, standing on stage reading, music or tab, would be unnaceptable. I'm expected to know it.

Many thanks to the readers on here who take the time and effort to try and convert us non readers, I do appreciate it and one day, hopefully, it may click for me.

[Jerry_B]

I did try to learn tab, way back when, but in the end it was simply easier for me to listen to any given song and play it by ear. I still do this today. I know some people who can't learn by ear at all - they either need tabs or the music itself before it 'sits' in their memory.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='Les' post='783585' date='Mar 23 2010, 03:47 PM']You'd have to be in denial or just being a t*at and winding people up to say reading music isn't a good thing.[/quote]

Hope that wasnt aimed at me

All I was saying is that for someone like me all I need is to learn a whole load of songs and tabs are the easiest way of dong that. I wish sheet music was more readily available for the pub standards that I play but all I can find on the internet to buy is sheet music for guitar. So either I spend weeks learning something by ear or get tab and learn it in an evening, making the corrections as I go.

Of course if your a pro or ,like Bilbo , playing with other dot readers then reading is important

and yes I wish my ear was better and I didnt have to rely upon either reading or tab !

[Gust0o]

I'll admit, I go for the tab first - it's ideal if you're attempting to pick something up quickly.

A useful little tool I use is Guitar Pro. It's great for working out how the various parts fit together and the interplay of the instruments. It's not pure tab, as it does also display the music - which I find is essential for nailing timings, and is a useful bit of discipline.

I tend to find that I'll see what people have come up with, then listen to the track, and blend the two together. Ultimately, you've got to play it; so you need to make it yours. I think people tend to just opt for replaying the original.

[cheddatom]

I was taught using tab since I was 8 (on guitar). I don't know what you others have been reading but I had plenty of rythmic notation - little stroke lines at the bottom of the tab to denote the beats. I also got numbers to show which finger to use for which note.

Fair enough if no pros use it, but it seems perfectly acceptable to me. What am I missing?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='783618' date='Mar 23 2010, 04:11 PM']Fair enough if no pros use it, but it seems perfectly acceptable to me. What am I missing?[/quote]

The universality of the system, ct.

TAB only works for guitar. Dots work for an infintie variety of instruments. If I have to write a part out for a sax or, alternatively, need to learn a line written originally for a trombone, flute or harp, I can do so without any real difficulty. Also, and more importantly for me, my study material doesn't stop at bass/guitar music but can include everything up to and including a full orchestral score. That's what I mean by it being good for getting you out of a rut. Learning a Coltrane sax solo or Marsalis trumpet part is far more challenging (and useful) than learning a Victor Wooten circus trick any day .

[Les]

[quote name='thunderbird13' post='783595' date='Mar 23 2010, 03:56 PM']Hope that wasnt aimed at me [/quote]

Absolutly not mate, sorry if it looked like that.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='783625' date='Mar 23 2010, 04:20 PM']The universality of the system, ct.

TAB only works for guitar. Dots work for an infintie variety of instruments. If I have to write a part out for a sax or, alternatively, need to learn a line written originally for a trombone, flute or harp, I can do so without any real difficulty. Also, and more importantly for me, my study material doesn't stop at bass/guitar music but can include everything up to and including a full orchestral score. That's what I mean by it being good for getting you out of a rut. Learning a Coltrane sax solo or Marsalis trumpet part is far more challenging (and useful) than learning a Victor Wooten circus trick any day .[/quote]

ahhhhhh, I see!!! Ta.

[lanark]

I can read music for the piano - I been playing that instrument (badly) since I was about 10 years old - but I have terrible trouble converting that note I know is written down to a position on the fretboard. I know that it only takes practice, but I have to say that it's been put to the back of "things to do" behind learning the entire 100 minute set of tunes, and tabs were easier.

I still fully intend to become comfortable reading dots for bass though.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='lanark' post='783655' date='Mar 23 2010, 04:45 PM']I still fully intend to become comfortable reading dots for bass though.[/quote]

Ok, I'll let you off then. This time

[retroman]

I can think of a way that's easier than TAB.......YouTube!

On an more serious note, I have 4 tracks to work out for an upcoming audition opportunity, and am doing it totally by ear.

I haven't looked at TAB for years now. I have recently taken the leap back into lessons again, to improve my theory, and reading skills. It's actually not as hard as you think. I have been deliberately asking my tutor to give me pieces of music to learn that I can't go away and cheat with. He's been giving me stuff from theatre pits to learn, and it's fun rising to the challenge. Sure, I'm bumming a few notes, and getting some of the rhythm wrong in places

I'm fast starting to appreciate just what a valuable tool being able to read is.

[Doddy]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='783618' date='Mar 23 2010, 04:11 PM']I was taught using tab since I was 8 (on guitar). I don't know what you others have been reading but I had plenty of rythmic notation - little stroke lines at the bottom of the tab to denote the beats. I also got numbers to show which finger to use for which note.[/quote]

Do the little stroke lines only show where the beats are or do they actually
show the rhythms?

If you were taught using tab,then the teacher is at fault and has
done you a major disservice. If you had lessons with me you would
learn the notes.

[Marvin]

I agree with Thunderbird, that part of the problem is that there is a lack of notation for a lot of the material that many of us like.
However, I was on the Theory and Tech forum just now and someone had kindly tracked down some TAB for Maggie May for someone else. It's on 'Songster' and it actually plays it for you as well as providing the TAB. I've been starting to learn to read notation all evening and when I came to try and read this TAB as songster played the tune I struggled to figure out what the hell was going on. Whereas I was beginning to get the hang of reading notation.

I dislike TAB, unfortunately for some genres it's all that's available if your ear is naff or you're in a rush.

[Les]

[quote name='Marvin' post='784139' date='Mar 23 2010, 11:03 PM']I was on the Theory and Tech forum just now and someone had kindly tracked down some TAB for Maggie May for someone else.[/quote]

That was actually me Marvin, who asked for the Maggie May tab. The fact that I couldn't find it is what prompted me to start this thread.

[Marvin]

[quote name='Les' post='784282' date='Mar 24 2010, 02:32 AM']That was actually me Marvin, who asked for the Maggie May tab. The fact that I couldn't find it is what prompted me to start this thread.[/quote]

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='Johnston' post='783964' date='Mar 23 2010, 08:46 PM']I just could never pick out what line the dot was on or between, suppose the best way to describe it is the dots jump about. I used to know which was which note (can't now) but if you sat it down infront of me I would have had to sit and go through it note by note. I suppose these days I'd be taken to the docs or the optician and diagnosed with some sort of syndrome but back then I was just told I would never be able to play an instrument.[/quote]

I get that as well sometimes and when I went to the optician he said that Celts are genetically prone to this condition - couldnt cure it though

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Doddy' post='784022' date='Mar 23 2010, 09:31 PM']Do the little stroke lines only show where the beats are or do they actually
show the rhythms?

If you were taught using tab,then the teacher is at fault and has
done you a major disservice. If you had lessons with me you would
learn the notes.[/quote]

Good point, yeh TAB doesn't show you how long the notes are (if that's what you mean?)

My teacher was Joe Dring, you may have heard of him? He's very well known (and paid) in the area. It would have been good to learn to read music properly, but I couldn't say a bad word about him. I tried to read in my teens and couldn't do it.

[Doddy]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='784697' date='Mar 24 2010, 01:54 PM']Good point, yeh TAB doesn't show you how long the notes are (if that's what you mean?)

My teacher was Joe Dring, you may have heard of him? He's very well known (and paid) in the area. It would have been good to learn to read music properly, but I couldn't say a bad word about him. I tried to read in my teens and couldn't do it.[/quote]

No I don't know him.
But I still say that if he started you on tab he did you a disservice.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Doddy' post='784806' date='Mar 24 2010, 03:36 PM']No I don't know him.
But I still say that if he started you on tab he did you a disservice.[/quote]

Well, even though he was a great teacher, and probably the nicest guy i'll know, you're probably right. If i'd learned to read from the start I could have considered playing in loads more projects or maybe even getting good and doing sessions or something.

[Doddy]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='784814' date='Mar 24 2010, 03:46 PM']Well, even though he was a great teacher, and probably the nicest guy i'll know, you're probably right. If i'd learned to read from the start I could have considered playing in loads more projects or maybe even getting good and doing sessions or something.[/quote]

It's never too late to start.......

[cheddatom]

eugh, when I did my degree I took a module specifically to learn to read and I couldn't do it. Obviously if I put my mind to it.... but i'm way too negative. I'll take lessons for it when i'm old and/or afluent.

[BigRedX]

When I started playing none of these aids really existed. If you were playing covers you simply had to learn by ear from the record. For some songs there would be sheet music available at around £1.25 per song, but this was transcribed for the piano normally in a "Knees Up Mother Brown" style and while the bass line would fit the chords and the vocal melody it often wasn't what the bass guitar was actually playing on the recording.

Last year I joined a covers band which meant for the first time in my life I had to learn how to play songs that hadn't been written by either myself or another member of the band I was on, I had a look at what was available on line...

I found that nearly every tab I looked at had obvious major errors in it so I gave up looking at them. AFAIC if I can't work out what the bass is doing on the original recording by ear then it doesn't matter and anything similar that fits with what the other musicians in the band are playing will do.

As for reading music, I can do it in the same way as I can read Japanese, I have a basic understanding and with a dictionary and time I can slowly work out what is being conveyed. However none of the other musicians I've ever worked with could read music and better then I can so it wouldn't help me to convey my ideas or understand theirs.