HELP MY CURSED SET UP!! WHAT CABS CAN MATCH SUNN 1200s!??

[man_at_arms84]

First off. Hello. I'm new here. so please be gentle...
Right Im having CONTINUING problems with my set up. Please help me.
Im uneducated a bit but have been some forums enough times to know a little.

I play in a LOUD band with a LOUD drummer and a VERY LOUD guitarist ( two heads two cabs A/B/C together)

I have one head. But use two different set ups usually. I'll list each set up. What the sound is like. and then what I suspect.
Set up 1:
Head- Sunn 1200s/fender bassman 1200 pro hybrid amp.
800 Watts @ 4ohms
1200 Watts @ 2ohms

Cabs- Peavey TVX 4X10 350 Watts Cont/ 700Watts Programable
Ran in Parallel with TVX 1X15 400Watts /Cont 800Watts Prog

This means it's a 2 ohm rig with the head full power,1200w.

My problem is thats Im getting a BAD farting and popping sound out of the 4X10 when the amp is above two, even with the Eq knocked out.

My suspicion is that the cabs are under powered for the job and cant handle the head.

Am I in the right direction?? Or are my speakers just f*cked?

SET UP 2:
Again the sunn head but this time with...

Cab- Marshall DBS 7412 4X12 4ohms. 800watts RMS.

I wasnt having trouble with this set up. Alhough not quite the tone I'd like.
Its LOUD, but no fartingin the practice space. The only bad is the weight of the cab and the head can sometimes vibrate off! (never fell off, but moving procariously.)
How ever last night I played a show and could have sworn I heard some strange noises from one of the speakers again! a bit like I heard with the peavey set up.

Now are my suspicions correct? Is my head just too powerful for my cabs?

What I'd really liek to get is one of these Electricamp hand made 8X10 cabs, 2800 watts at 4Ohms ([url="http://www.electricamp.com/8x10speaker-cabinet.html"][url="http://www.electricamp.com/8x10speaker-cabinet.html"]http://www.electricamp.com/8x10speaker-cabinet.html[/url][/url]) but alas I do not think they have any delear ships in the UK.

Im thinking of selling all my cabs and going for an Ampeg 8 X10 (800Watts RMS mono 8ohm) I used this set up with a mates cab at a few gigs and sounds great. But it looks like the power handling is the same as my marshall, so a bit worried.

can anyone suggest a cab that is a great pairing for the Sunn 1200s?

PLEASE HELP!!!
My continued problems (amps breaking, speakers blown, now this) is driving me to give up playing all together.

Edited November 7, 2007 by man_at_arms84

[bass_ferret]

Sounds like you should mike up and get a PA to do the work.

In theory the Marshall should be OK but extreme tone settings and playing might have done it in. The Peavey sounds f***ed to use the technical term. Someone was selling an Aguillar GS4x12 (4 ohms 1200 watts) a while back - that might do the trick.

Dont forget that sensitivity of the speakers actually makes as much difference to the volume as watts. There is a sticky somewhere explaining all this.

Dont give up man - oh and get some ear plugs or your hearing will be as f***ed as your speakers.

[DirkThrust]

I sincerely hope you're wearing earplugs if your g******t is playing that loud. I don't mean to preach but why don't you ask him to turn down a bit.

As for your problems, when the volume is that high it can be difficult to diagnose what is actually going on. It is probably unlikely that your amp is simply too powerful for the cabs if they are farting out so soon. How long have you had that problem? Has it always done it or could you identify a time when it started?

What is your playing style like? If you are competing with a loud guitarist it is instinctive to dig in and play very heavily and that could cause your strings to bounce of the frets which at high volume is gonna cause all kinds of unpleasant speaker noises. If you play through the rig without guitar and drums and play cleanly, at what point does it start distorting?

The first principle of fault finding is to try and identify where the problem is by eliminating what it isn't. You say you are thinking of getting an 8x10. That would certainly help you be heard by giving a more cut through sound than a 15. Is it possible to do an A/B comparison if you take your cabs along to an Ampeg stockist? If that cures the problem then you know it is the cabs.

Edited November 7, 2007 by PaulMartin

[bass_ferret]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7959&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7959&hl=[/url]

[man_at_arms84]

Thanks for the responses! this is great!

"[b]I sincerely hope you're wearing earplugs if your g******t is playing that loud. I don't mean to preach but why don't you ask him to turn down a bit[/b]."

Hah. Yeah I always use plugs now. Im half deaf from playing loud music for years! its not as loud practicing but when we play Live it's always loud. I like it loud to be honest!

"[b]As for your problems, when the volume is that high it can be difficult to diagnose what is actually going on. It is probably unlikely that your amp is simply too powerful for the cabs if they are farting out so soon. How long have you had that problem? Has it always done it or could you identify a time when it started?"[/b]

Well I have had the WORST luck with gear in the past year, but I have been using the peaveys cabs for nearly a year. (nov 2006) Previously with a peavey Tmax head. No troubles. The T max died. (Long story!!) and was replaced with a fender MB1200 power amp and TB Pre amp until I bought the Sunn. The fender again worked great. But it wasnt mine and I boughtr the sunn. Whilst using my fender Power amp/pre amp My 4X10 was blown whilst lending it out when on tour in July. I couldnt afford to replace all the drivers so I bought a new 4X10. the day before a tour. I played 4 dates with the Sunn/Peavey rig. Then one of the speakers in that 4X10 got blown whilst lending it out again (Dont tell me about it!!).
I replaced the blown speaker just two nights ago, with a replacement from peavey. tested it for 5 in the practice room and it seemed fine. It may be worth mentioning a speaker jack got stuck in the amp and we had to break the casing for one of the inputs to get the jack out. this was on the same night. But again afterwards I tested the rig for 5 and it seemed good.

Then in sound check at last nights gig, a terrible buzz/fart/popping sound kept occuring. It was so bad, I had to get my marshall cab down for the show. I know have my gear in the van so I havent had a chance to test it again.......
Now you see why Im at despair. and thats not mentioning my AMP problems!

[b]What is your playing style like? If you are competing with a loud guitarist it is instinctive to dig in and play very heavily and that could cause your strings to bounce of the frets which at high volume is gonna cause all kinds of unpleasant speaker noises. If you play through the rig without guitar and drums and play cleanly, at what point does it start distorting?[/b]
Well I play very heavily, with a pick, my bass is a 1970's Gibson grabber (luckily thats NEVER been a problem, touch wood).
I've been playing in bands for just under ten years and my playing style has never really changed. So i dont think its that. The noise was occuring mainly when hit the string then would drop in and out. I didnt have time to play around thought so as soon as it started happing I dropped EQ out, etc still happend so I just swicthed as I was at the show.

[b]The first principle of fault finding is to try and identify where the problem is by eliminating what it isn't. You say you are thinking of getting an 8x10. That would certainly help you be heard by giving a more cut through sound than a 15. Is it possible to do an A/B comparison if you take your cabs along to an Ampeg stockist? If that cures the problem then you know it is the cabs.[/b]
There's nowhere where Im from that can do that. I literraly have to buy and try. But a great idea!

Bass_ferret, I'll have a read of that Sticky thanks!

Keep coming with suggestion, pointers, and anything else!

Edited November 7, 2007 by man_at_arms84

[G-bitch]

A different EQ setting can make the world of difference i.e. cutting the bass out and putting more mids in - you'll 'cut through' more without just sending more and more power sapping/speaker flapping low bass frequencies.

Alternatively, I've found that sealed cabs don't 'fart out' like ported cabs can - the Ampeg 810 cl is sealed hence your joy with it. There are some others out there too such as the Marshall VBC 412, the old trace elliot V-type 412 cabs, bergantino NV610 and NV215.

[man_at_arms84]

[quote name='G-bitch' post='85127' date='Nov 7 2007, 08:57 PM']A different EQ setting can make the world of difference i.e. cutting the bass out and putting more mids in - you'll 'cut through' more without just sending more and more power sapping/speaker flapping low bass frequencies.

Alternatively, I've found that sealed cabs don't 'fart out' like ported cabs can - the Ampeg 810 cl is sealed hence your joy with it. There are some others out there too such as the Marshall VBC 412, the old trace elliot V-type 412 cabs, bergantino NV610 and NV215.[/quote]

Yeah I havent had a chance to try out tweakling E.Q yet. Im back in the practice room sunday, so I'll see what happens then and let you know.
As for your cab suggestions, thanks I'll look into them. I actually have a freind who has a VBC 8X10 so I'll maybe ask him If i can try it out. If he'll let me near it! ha.

[otis_spunkmeyer]

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='85087' date='Nov 7 2007, 07:29 PM']It may be worth mentioning a speaker jack got stuck in the amp and we had to break the casing for one of the inputs to get the jack out. this was on the same night. But again afterwards I tested the rig for 5 and it seemed good.[/quote]

When this happend did it involve a lot of wrenching the speaker jack to try and get it out? What i'm getting is releasing a stuck cable have caused the clip inside the socket to come a bit loose. A similar thing happened to my mp3 player (alright completely different beast but same prinicple) which caused a sort of intermitent fault where the headphones splutter out if the lead gets knocked or pulled at the wrong angle.

If something like this has happened to your amp then it might explain why its sometimes fine and at others farts out- it would all depend on the strain on the cable as you move round the room.

Of course it could be something completely different...

[LukeFRC]

if you are playin loud enough to vibrate heads off amps then i would think that would be loud enough to vibrate any dodgy conections.

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='85087' date='Nov 7 2007, 07:29 PM']Well I have had the WORST luck with gear in the past year, but I have been using the peaveys cabs for nearly a year. (nov 2006) Previously with a peavey Tmax head. No troubles. The T max died. (Long story!!) and was replaced with a fender MB1200 power amp and TB Pre amp until I bought the Sunn. The fender again worked great. But it wasnt mine and I boughtr the sunn. Whilst using my fender Power amp/pre amp My 4X10 was blown whilst lending it out when on tour in July. I couldnt afford to replace all the drivers so I bought a new 4X10. the day before a tour. I played 4 dates with the Sunn/Peavey rig. Then one of the speakers in that 4X10 got blown whilst lending it out again (Dont tell me about it!!).
I replaced the blown speaker just two nights ago, with a replacement from peavey. tested it for 5 in the practice room and it seemed fine. It may be worth mentioning a speaker jack got stuck in the amp and we had to break the casing for one of the inputs to get the jack out. this was on the same night. But again afterwards I tested the rig for 5 and it seemed good.

Then in sound check at last nights gig, a terrible buzz/fart/popping sound kept occuring. It was so bad, I had to get my marshall cab down for the show. I know have my gear in the van so I havent had a chance to test it again.......
Now you see why Im at despair. and thats not mentioning my AMP problems![/quote]


Perhaps you should change your user name to The Terminator

[Bloodaxe]

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='85087' date='Nov 7 2007, 07:29 PM']It may be worth mentioning a speaker jack got stuck in the amp and we had to break the casing for one of the inputs to get the jack out. this was on the same night. But again afterwards I tested the rig for 5 and it seemed good.[/quote]

Broke the casing? Just to clarify, was this on the amp or the cab?

If it's on the amp, get it replaced ASAP - a dodgy connection can fry the output stage big stylee.

If it's on the cab & was mounted in a plastic sort of tray affair then it [i]could[/i] be that you've got a leak that only shows up at high volumes - that could rasp & blart like a raspy blarty thing - check it for cracks.

Also might be worth checking that your speakers are properly seated in the cab (you say you've replaced two) - if there's any air getting around the frame that'll do it too.

As a long term solution, you may want to look at a DIY project from [url="http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/"][u][b]BFM[/b][/u][/url] - they have a reputation for air-shifting at stupid SPLs.

Pete.

[rodl2005]

+1 to above post!!!! Sealed cabs sound like your bag! OR the Schroeder cabs- BIG 'uns like the 410 or 310212, or 412 even- the old 310212 handled 2400wRMS IIRC. I've the Fender 300PRO Bassman - which is a all tube version of your amp. YEAH It's LOUD too!!!! it made my old cab- a loud AMPEG SVT410HLF fart out at 1/3 volume. My Bergantino NV610 seems to 'handle' it far better-not that I've had it much PAST 1/3 volume ;-)
The Ampeg 810 will be good, MArshall make a sealed 4x12" & a sealed 810 which are both s'posed to be GREAT cabs! I $$$$$ were no problem- EASY ONE Bergantino NV610 & ONE Bergantino NV215!!! ;-)

[man_at_arms84]

[quote name='PaulMartin' post='85221' date='Nov 8 2007, 06:32 AM']Perhaps you should change your user name to The Terminator [/quote]
ha.
Yeah, Have the shitas touch. The opposite of the midas touch. It's not even that I abuse it or anything.....oh well.
Blood Axe & Otis:
It was the the casing to ONE of four inputs in the back of the AMP. we had to break it in order to get the speaker lead out. The more i think about it the more i think this may well be the problem. Althoght we didnt break any conections just teh casing that protects it, I guess it cant eb a good thing for the amp.
I will double check the replaced speaker. I've never changed one before, so I guess I just screw REAL tight?

I guess what Im learning is that it could be alot of things. But keep these suggestions coming as the more I know the more I know what to look for!

I'll be taking alook at it all on sunday.
I have to say I find this forum much nicer than the talk bass forum......Eeesssshhhh!! hope that doesnt get me a slap from the USA!

[joegarcia]

You dont play in Manatees do you?
Only, I played a show ealier in the year with that band and the bassist was using a Grabber and Marshall DBS412.
I have the 1200s too and I run it with an Aguilar GS412. Best sound I ever had, love it to bits and have never managed to get it to make any farting sounds and I play loud with loadsa nasty fx too. 'Only' gets 800w out of it at 4ohms but I always have loads and loads of headroom, I personally prefer it to Ampeg 810's. The Bergantinos are surely worth considering too as many already said. There was someone selling a Berg 215 on Talkbass in Europe very recently actually.

[man_at_arms84]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='85668' date='Nov 8 2007, 09:13 PM']You dont play in Manatees do you?
Only, I played a show ealier in the year with that band and the bassist was using a Grabber and Marshall DBS412.
I have the 1200s too and I run it with an Aguilar GS412. Best sound I ever had, love it to bits and have never managed to get it to make any farting sounds and I play loud with loadsa nasty fx too. 'Only' gets 800w out of it at 4ohms but I always have loads and loads of headroom, I personally prefer it to Ampeg 810's. The Bergantinos are surely worth considering too as many already said. There was someone selling a Berg 215 on Talkbass in Europe very recently actually.[/quote]

Yes I do. I do play in manatees. Tada! So you played with us earlier in the year and I was using the marshall? Where was this and what band you play in? What a small world!
I dont usually use the marhsall, although I love the sound because it is quite possibly the heaviest thing ever, and the other two get sick of helping me lift it! Weighs much more than and Ampeg 8X10!!
The only thing that puts me off an ampeg 8X10 is the cliche. Everyone has them, i'd rather be different. But I guess so many have them as they are reliable and road worthy. and I used a freinds a few times and I have to admit it does sound good. mmm
Anyone know anywhere in the UK I can get one of these?

[url="http://www.electricamp.com/8x10speaker-cabinet.html"]http://www.electricamp.com/8x10speaker-cabinet.html[/url]

I heard good things about that Aguilar but I dont have enough dosh.

The amp I had before the sunn was a peavey T-max (now destroyed) and i think that was the best I ever had....so far!

[joegarcia]

Hehe, played with you guys at The Brickyard, I play with Rose Kemp. Hope that tour next year comes off. Funny if we ended up with identical rigs on tour.
I managed to pick up my GS412 on here for £600 and was so chuffed. They really suit each other. I know exactly what you mean about the 810's being so common, they do sound awesome with an SVT though.

[bass_ferret]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6873"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6873[/url]

[man_at_arms84]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='85674' date='Nov 8 2007, 09:33 PM']Hehe, played with you guys at The Brickyard, I play with Rose Kemp. Hope that tour next year comes off. Funny if we ended up with identical rigs on tour.
I managed to pick up my GS412 on here for £600 and was so chuffed. They really suit each other. I know exactly what you mean about the 810's being so common, they do sound awesome with an SVT though.[/quote]
ha. Oh yeah! you had that crazy set up with the metal pre amp thing on top your amp. Yeah I remember your bass sound was great. Yeah it will be cool if we end up doing these dates together. Just wating for our driver to confirm she can do it.

Thanks for the link bass ferret!

[joegarcia]

Hehe, yea, changed a few things round since then. Well, lots actually. :-)
Your sound was massive too. Iàm a big fan of bass 4x12's and those Marshalls are pretty damn good. Definately worth checking the GS412 above though. Good price.

[man_at_arms84]

[quote name='joegarcia' post='86237' date='Nov 9 2007, 08:50 PM']Hehe, yea, changed a few things round since then. Well, lots actually. :-)
Your sound was massive too. Iàm a big fan of bass 4x12's and those Marshalls are pretty damn good. Definately worth checking the GS412 above though. Good price.[/quote]
Yeah man that Aguilar sounds liek it could be pretty good. At 1200w Im sure it could handle the sunn anyday. I dont think I have 600 Smackaroons right now though...
How much are these new?

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='man_at_arms84' post='86254' date='Nov 9 2007, 09:17 PM']Yeah man that Aguilar sounds liek it could be pretty good. At 1200w Im sure it could handle the sunn anyday. I dont think I have 600 Smackaroons right now though...
How much are these new?[/quote]
£835 @ The Gallery

[thomas]

Electric Amp only sell direct in the USA, you'd have to get it shipped over and I'm pretty sure there are fair waiting times for the bigger cabinets, they don't come cheap either. Look for a 2nd hand Orange/Matamp 8x10 and it may sound and look similar, then whack a bunch of new speakers in it to handle the power.
Realistically though I'd recommend a 2x15 and a different 4x10 for the volume you seem to be going for. That or make a DIY cab and put what speakers you want in it, and although I don't use BFM cabs for bass playing I'd say give them a look to.

[man_at_arms84]

well I tried out all the suggestions today at the practice room.

The speaker had been put in correctly. I screwed it alot tighter this time.
Was still farting out. It was the newley changed one that was farting and was farting when it was flexing/vibrating out the most.
Seemed to flex alot more than the older ones. I guess this is because it's a brand new sepeaker and taking more power in right?

Well I played around with the EQ and found that cutting out some bottom end eradicated the farting.
at least until it was at higher volume. I realised I had the low knob quite high! ha.
Sooooooo, my guessing is that yes, the peavey cabs im using just cant take the 1200w power from the Sunn.
My marshal DBS was fine after playing with EQ.

I'll call peavey and ask them just to check their opinion. But my other heads ran fine through the peaveys. Quite releaved that niether the cab or amp seem to be faulty.

Soooo now I'll be looking at new cabs.
Thomas. You mentioned getting an Matamp or Orange 8X10.
Any Ideas where I can find either. Matamps site seems to only have guitar cabs and Im out of leads!

[steve-soar]

[quote name='thomas' post='87245' date='Nov 12 2007, 12:11 PM']Electric Amp only sell direct in the USA, you'd have to get it shipped over and I'm pretty sure there are fair waiting times for the bigger cabinets, they don't come cheap either. Look for a 2nd hand Orange/Matamp 8x10 and it may sound and look similar, then whack a bunch of new speakers in it to handle the power.
Realistically though I'd recommend a 2x15 and a different 4x10 for the volume you seem to be going for. That or make a DIY cab and put what speakers you want in it, and although I don't use BFM cabs for bass playing I'd say give them a look to.[/quote]
Hi Thomas, your avatar makes me feel sick. Is that supposed to be a representation of you smoking weed? Speaking from massive experience, I personally feel that no one needs to alter their state to appriciate life in all its beauty and horror.
Drugs are bad, n'o kay.

Edited November 12, 2007 by steve-soar

[DrGonzo]

Heh, Alex you always was a moron...

Brill, now I can abuse you on tinterweb too!