Ashdown combo possibly picking up interference, what's the cause and can it easily be fixed?

[Osiris]

I have an Ashdown Touring 220 combo, it's a twin valve pre-amp into a solid state power amp. Last year I put it up for sale and agreed a trade with @AinsleyWalker but he reported it having a lot of inherent noise when the master volume was cranked beyond around 12 o'clock. I went to his house and indeed it was very noisy even when on standby, not just the hiss you get when turning an amp up loud but what I would describe as more of an electrical interference, buzzing type of noise. So I took the amp back and at my house it's pretty much silent unless I have the PC on which I often do when learning new music. With the PC off, the amp is no more noisy than any other I've used over the past 40 years ago. This makes me think it's possibly picking up some sort of electrical interference. 

 

So my question is what's causing this? The amp is probably 10-15 years old and never been abused. But it's never been serviced either. 

 

Ashdown have an excellent reputation for fixing their amps but at a 200 mile round trip, plus the time required to take it to them (it could possibly be posted by weighs around 6 million tons) I'm wondering if it's something that could easily be fixed by an amp tech closer to home? Plus, it doesn't seem to be worth that much so I'm reluctant to spend a fortune getting it fixed if the 'repair' is disproportionately high to its value as I'll probably still move it on at some point. 

 

Any thoughts as to the possible cause and approximate cost of getting it sorted? 

[Hellzero]

Your amp is simply picking the noise of the modern switch-mode power supplies found everywhere nowadays, and there's no real cure to this, except playing in non electrically polluted places...

[Osiris]

But why is this amp susceptible to noise when I've used several others in the same location that have been noise free even when the PC has been on?

[AinsleyWalker]

Sorry to hear you're still having issues mate, hopefully you can sort because it is a lovely sounding amp

[Hellzero]

47 minutes ago, Osiris said:

But why is this amp susceptible to noise when I've used several others in the same location that have been noise free even when the PC has been on?

Because of its conception, don't look any further.

Edited 19 hours ago by Hellzero

[spyder]

I've had similar problems with various peices of equipment over the years.

I've had horrid sounds in the house and silence at other locations.

Unfortunately there is no cure.

 

[itu]

PC is a noise generator. If you have any extra cables there, they act as antennas. Disconnect every cable that is not in use. 

 

You can try another wall outlet and some distance.

 

If your instrument cables are not up to date, buy Sommer or Cordial with Neutrik plugs. 

 

FX board in use? That and the PSU can be antennas, or noise generators, too. 

[AinsleyWalker]

5 minutes ago, itu said:

PC is a noise generator. If you have any extra cables there, they act as antennas. Disconnect every cable that is not in use. 

 

You can try another wall outlet and some distance.

 

If your instrument cables are not up to date, buy Sommer or Cordial with Neutrik plugs. 

 

FX board in use? That and the PSU can be antennas, or noise generators, too. 

It happened in my house too though, no matter which room I tried. Even a hallway with no electronics. Using a high quality power cable and pedal power supply that does not introduce noise to my signal. High quality cables etc. 

I never have noise issues with any of my amps or when going direct. 
I believe there's a wiring issue in Osiris' amp, the DI always produced the same electrical hiss that comes out of the speaker when the master volume was turned up past 11/12. This happened regardless of whether anything is plugged into the amp. it's most likely an internal issue, not external.

Edited 17 hours ago by AinsleyWalker

[itu]

These suggestions are only common practises. May help, but not guaranteed. 

[AinsleyWalker]

Just now, itu said:

These suggestions are only common practises. May help, but not guaranteed. 

Absolutely  just confirming my experience with the amp

[ghostwheel]

24 minutes ago, AinsleyWalker said:

the DI always produced the same electrical hiss that comes out of the speaker

I had the same problem with a Spyder 330. The cure was to build a ground lifting switch into it. Then the amp would hiss when nothing is connected to the DI, and the ground lifting is on. 

 

[Osiris]

46 minutes ago, itu said:

PC is a noise generator. If you have any extra cables there, they act as antennas. Disconnect every cable that is not in use. 

 

You can try another wall outlet and some distance.

 

If your instrument cables are not up to date, buy Sommer or Cordial with Neutrik plugs. 

 

FX board in use? That and the PSU can be antennas, or noise generators, too. 

 

I use decent cables, Sommer, Van Damme and Neutrik. I do usually use a small pedal board with it, compressor, tuner and HPF, but funnily enough the amp tends to be quieter with the board inline than without it - and the pedals are daisy chained too which the internet tells me is guaranteed to introduce noise, yet it definitely help alleviate any noise even with the PC on. 

[Osiris]

2 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Because of its conception, don't look any further.

 

What are you saying here? It's just a part of the inherent design of the amp? Something else? 

[Osiris]

2 hours ago, AinsleyWalker said:

Sorry to hear you're still having issues mate, hopefully you can sort because it is a lovely sounding amp

 

For how I use it it's absolutely fine, even with the PC on as it never really needs to be above around 10.00 on the master volume for plenty loud enough at home levels. It's just that I could do with moving it on just to clear some space in the room it's in and based on your experience - and it was very noisy with the master up and the gain set low when we tried it at your house - I want to be certain that any potential buyer doesn't have the same issues. 

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, spyder said:

I've had similar problems with various peices of equipment over the years.

I've had horrid sounds in the house and silence at other locations.

Unfortunately there is no cure.

 

 

But I'd expect any extraneous noise to be muted when the amp is muted, like the way amp hiss is. That's not happening here, the noise is present even when the amp is muted. That doesn't seem normal to me which makes me suspect there's more to it that being one of those things. Was that your experience with noisy gear too? It's a first for me having tried dozens of different amps over the years. 

[Stub Mandrel]

18 minutes ago, Osiris said:

master up and the gain set low

 

What perversion is this? 😆

[Hellzero]

Did you check that the preamp valves are the appropriate ones as I've seen so many people doing absolutely anything with valves?

 

If the valves are the correct ones, did you try replacing them (ECC83 + ECC82)?

[itu]

1 hour ago, Osiris said:

I do usually use a small pedal board with it, compressor, tuner and HPF, but funnily enough the amp tends to be quieter with the board inline... 

The board pushes out lo-Z (low impedance) signal which is less prone to interference.

 

The bass is naturally the first antenna in line. Is it shielded? 

[ghostwheel]

2 hours ago, Osiris said:

But I'd expect any extraneous noise to be muted when the amp is muted, like the way amp hiss is. That's not happening here, the noise is present even when the amp is muted.

Those preamps (Touring, Spyder, probably any Dual Tube ones) are muted bevor Master Volume, that is the grid of its first triode is connected to the ground (muted), but the rest isn’t. This valve, especially when not very good one, could be the “receiver”. 

You might like to replace this valve with another one labeled as V1 (low noise, less microphonic, etc.). If you are going to do so, you need to check whether it’s a 12AX7/ECC83 or something else. 

[Osiris]

9 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

What perversion is this? 😆

 

Funnily enough, we discussed this at the time we were investigating the noise at Ainsleys' house. I'd always set the gain level and controlled the output with the master volume, always have as at some point in the depths of time I'd been led to believe it gives you the best signal to noise ratio. But I've heard of others doing the opposite. And it's what originally highlighted this issue.

 

 

[Osiris]

8 hours ago, itu said:

The board pushes out lo-Z (low impedance) signal which is less prone to interference.

 

The bass is naturally the first antenna in line. Is it shielded? 

 

The amp makes the noise even without a bass or cable plugged into the preamp. It also does it when muted too. So I don't think the problem is with the bass, but for the record I have 3 basses, all passive and all well shielded and no more noisy in use with other amps than any other basses I've played over the years. 

[Osiris]

8 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Did you check that the preamp valves are the appropriate ones as I've seen so many people doing absolutely anything with valves?

 

If the valves are the correct ones, did you try replacing them (ECC83 + ECC82)?

 

7 hours ago, ghostwheel said:

Those preamps (Touring, Spyder, probably any Dual Tube ones) are muted bevor Master Volume, that is the grid of its first triode is connected to the ground (muted), but the rest isn’t. This valve, especially when not very good one, could be the “receiver”. 

You might like to replace this valve with another one labeled as V1 (low noise, less microphonic, etc.). If you are going to do so, you need to check whether it’s a 12AX7/ECC83 or something else. 

 

Thanks guys, I've never changed the valves, from what I understand the preamp in this range was not designed to break up into saturation or to be overdriven, so I'd never seen much point to changing them especially as I like it how it sounds as if is. But I'd been talking to a mate about it who also suggested the valves being the potential problem, and with these suggestions it sounds like a good place to start. Do you guys have any recommendations for the brands to go for as I don't really know much about them having not owned a valve amp since the 80's.  

[Hellzero]

That said nowadays, companies building valves/tubes are quite sparse as most of them have now disappeared:

 

JJ in Czech Republic (JJ, Telefunken),

 

New Sensor in Russia even if it's an American based company (EH Gold, Electro-Harmonix, Genalex Gold Lion, Mullard, Sovtek, Svetlana, Tung-Sol),

 

Psvane, formerly Shuguang, in China (Psvane, Shuguang),

 

Western Electric in Serbia (former Ei Niš factory), but it's an American based company (Western Electric).

 

That's all, except a few very small manufacturers "building" to order or only for themselves.

 

All others brands you encounter are simply rebadged valves/tubes or NOS...

 

So knowing this, you can buy your ECC82 valves/tubes here:

 

https://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/12au7-ecc82.html?product_list_order=price

 

And your ECC83 here:

 

https://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/preamp-valves-12ax7-ecc82jj-12ax7m-hot-rox-uk-1885-0.html?product_list_order=price

 

Using the same brand for both of them is the best.

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Osiris said:

 

Funnily enough, we discussed this at the time we were investigating the noise at Ainsleys' house. I'd always set the gain level and controlled the output with the master volume, always have as at some point in the depths of time I'd been led to believe it gives you the best signal to noise ratio. But I've heard of others doing the opposite. And it's what originally highlighted this issue.

 

 

 

 

It's normal for solid state/hybrid amps, but if you are relying on overdriving the output stage of a valve amp it's different. 

[Osiris]

43 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

That said nowadays, companies building valves/tubes are quite sparse as most of them have now disappeared:

 

JJ in Czech Republic (JJ, Telefunken),

 

New Sensor in Russia even if it's an American based company (EH Gold, Electro-Harmonix, Genalex Gold Lion, Mullard, Sovtek, Svetlana, Tung-Sol),

 

Psvane, formerly Shuguang, in China (Psvane, Shuguang),

 

Western Electric in Serbia (former Ei Niš factory), but it's an American based company (Western Electric).

 

That's all, except a few very small manufacturers "building" to order or only for themselves.

 

All others brands you encounter are simply rebadged valves/tubes or NOS...

 

So knowing this, you can buy your ECC82 valves/tubes here:

 

https://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/12au7-ecc82.html?product_list_order=price

 

And your ECC83 here:

 

https://www.hotroxuk.com/matched-valves-links-page-12ax7-6l6-909-0/preamp-valves-12ax7-ecc82jj-12ax7m-hot-rox-uk-1885-0.html?product_list_order=price

 

Using the same brand for both of them is the best.

 

Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll probably go with a set from here as they claims ot be a matched pair for the specific model - 

https://www.ampvalves.co.uk/product-category/choose-your-amp/ashdown-amplifiers/ashdown-220-touring/

 

But I'm going to contact Ashdown first and see what they have to say and will likely book it on for a service as it's probably long overdue.