Building a band system to isolate IEM mixing from venue / engineer

[warwickhunt]

20 minutes ago, mike257 said:

 

You can actually bodge this with the X32 Rack, now that I think about it. 

 

It has eight XLR outputs, but it also has six "Aux" outputs on jacks, and I'm pretty sure you can still route the mix bus outputs to them, giving you 14 outs total. 

 

I was literally just Googling this to see if those jack outs could do the same as the XLRs. 

 

[mike257]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

 

I was literally just Googling this to see if those jack outs could do the same as the XLRs. 

 

Been a while, but I was pretty confident you can route any output to them, and it looks like Mixing Station says yes.....

 

[JPJ]

Don’t forget, if you go Behringer you have the option of using Ultranet for your monitor mixes saving all those aux outs for other uses. Yes it means more outlay to buy the P16 personal mixers but it gives each band member a physical control of their IEM stereo mix. 
 

Edited April 15 by JPJ

[warwickhunt]

12 minutes ago, JPJ said:

Don’t forget, if you go Behringer you have the option of using Ultranet for your monitor mixes saving all those aux outs for other uses. Yes it means more outlay to buy the P16 personal mixers but it gives each band member a physical control of their IEM stereo mix. 
 

 

If using the Behringer solely as a mixer for us to access our own mixes for live use I'm not sure how/why/where/when we'd need to use the Aux outs for anything else... or would we?  

 

Is the P16 necessary for personal mixing if we can do it on the Aux of the X32 rack?  

[Kirky]

The P16 allows each band member to manage their own IEM mixes, rather than relying on whoever looked after the mixer.  You can do it via an app/devices, but it's easier using the physical knobs on the P16.  In our band (using an X18) two of us use P16s and the other three rely on the mix from the Aux outs.   

[warwickhunt]

4 minutes ago, Kirky said:

The P16 allows each band member to manage their own IEM mixes, rather than relying on whoever looked after the mixer.  You can do it via an app/devices, but it's easier using the physical knobs on the P16.  In our band (using an X18) two of us use P16s and the other three rely on the mix from the Aux outs.   

 

...but all 6 of us could just use an app on our Android or Apple phone direct to the X32?

[Kirky]

32 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

..but all 6 of us could just use an app on our Android or Apple phone direct to the X32

Yes, correct.   The other advantage of the P16 is it's stereo, and doesn't use any of the Auxes.  But all 6 of you could use the Auxes, apps, and wired or wireless in mono without any additional expense (assuming you have the devices you need). 

[warwickhunt]

I like the look of the P16 but tbh the expense is extravagance.  The X32 is ours, solely for our use as a means to get our own monitor mix without relying on engineers; it will likely be set once at a tech rehearsal and then just tweaked at different gigs via the app.

[warwickhunt]

Resurrection time...  After experiences at a festival yesterday we are absolutely going for this.  

 

X32 Rack                                                   £677

MS8000                                                     £114 (pair) 

6U case                                                     £100

18 short XLR/XLR loom (splitters > X32) £39

3m 16 XLR/XLR (splitter > FOH)              £60

Total                                                          £990

 

My only reservations are: getting PA engineers to mic/supply us feeds of the drums to our Splitter > X32, positioning of the unit so that we can run feeds from X32 to our 'individual' IE transmitters (we all play in other bands so it is not practicable to rack all 6 transmitters).  

[Phil Starr]

Probably a good provision if you are doing enough of this type of event to justify the expense. I've had several episodes of the monitors being perfect at sound check only to be given someone elses feed during the gig, there's only so much 'can I have a bit more of this and a bit less of that' you can do, especially when you know at least one other band member is wondering why my bass and vocals are dominating their mix. It's reall tough to concentrate and play well when your mix has failed. Probably worse for the poor sod who gets my vocals

 

I'm surprised nobody yet has offered the chance to mix your own monitors via a phone app at the smaller multi band events. IEM's are no longer really cutting edge technology and the apps can usually be locked so you don't have access to FOH. I've mixed these events myself in the past and with 10 min changeovers it can be hell to get everything done and not every band is co-operative or even knows what it is doing. Passing on the extra job of setting up monitors sounds great to me. I could always just feed them FOH if they eff up.

 

On the subject of drums how about the Yamaha EAD10 here It's a load of expense but I've seen drummers use it to mic up their kits and It works OK compared to many people's version of mic'ing a kit.

[JPJ]

1 hour ago, warwickhunt said:

Resurrection time...  After experiences at a festival yesterday we are absolutely going for this.  

 

X32 Rack                                                   £677

MS8000                                                     £114 (pair) 

6U case                                                     £100

18 short XLR/XLR loom (splitters > X32) £39

3m 16 XLR/XLR (splitter > FOH)              £60

Total                                                          £990

 

My only reservations are: getting PA engineers to mic/supply us feeds of the drums to our Splitter > X32, positioning of the unit so that we can run feeds from X32 to our 'individual' IE transmitters (we all play in other bands so it is not practicable to rack all 6 transmitters).  

If you are going with the MS8000 then you could save on the X32 rack and go with an X-Air XR18 which is currently retailing for an unbelievable £359

[warwickhunt]

In my head I'm wondering about some form of ambient mic near the kit @Phil Starr

 

What are we losing by going the XR18 @JPJ as opposed to X32?

 

[Phil Starr]

An ambient mic would certainly work and be cheaper but you'd probably have to compromise with how the drums sounded in the monitors. Given my experiences i'd rather have single mic drums than some of the IEM feeds I've experienced. The EAD10 is two ambient mics and the kick drum via a trigger and all the eq etc is sorted for you. Even at an ordinary gig it will probably give you as good as/better than you''d get with a 3 mic set up done in a rush. Talking to drummers they are marmite, some won't touch them and some swear by them.

 

 

[JPJ]

A few more inputs (if you add a stage box) as the x32 has er 32 channels available whereas the XR18 has 16 plus the usual stereo channel hence the ‘18’. You will have a lot more routing options in the x32 but with it a much steeper learning curve. Same with effects, but if you are only using the desk for IEM’s that shouldn’t be an issue.

You’re more than welcome to come and have a play with my XR18 if you want before you commit to the x32? 

[warwickhunt]

2 hours ago, JPJ said:

A few more inputs (if you add a stage box) as the x32 has er 32 channels available whereas the XR18 has 16 plus the usual stereo channel hence the ‘18’. You will have a lot more routing options in the x32 but with it a much steeper learning curve. Same with effects, but if you are only using the desk for IEM’s that shouldn’t be an issue.

You’re more than welcome to come and have a play with my XR18 if you want before you commit to the x32? 

 

The messages coming through to me from the band are that we'll be buying the X32 Rack.   

[JPJ]

3 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

The messages coming through to me from the band are that we'll be buying the X32 Rack.   

It does give you the option of using AES50 for a digital split if the FOH is also using an x32 product. 

[warwickhunt]

9 minutes ago, JPJ said:

It does give you the option of using AES50 for a digital split if the FOH is also using an x32 product. 

 

Never mind that I'm already considering that in a 20 minute change over (+ line check), we're not going to have time to route 5 vocal mics and the drum mics via our system... could be £1200-£1500 for something that a lot of these gigs are just not going to be able to accommodate.

 

Does anyone ( @mike257 ) know what the standard procedure is if a band rocks up with a racked 16 ch splitter and X32 and wants / needs the 5 vocal mics and drums routed through our system... in a 20-30 min turnaround?