How was your PA last night?

[Chienmortbb]

4 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Was that the Monza?

Yes, Monza plus Bugera and at times the Sansamp patch on my Zoom B6. 

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Yes, Monza plus Bugera and at times the Sansamp patch on my Zoom B6. 

Towards the end, I had some drop-outs where my sound dropped for 1 sec or so.  For the last few numbers, I had the bass plugged directly into the amp. The only thing I missed was the tuner.

[SuperSeagull]

On 19/07/2025 at 11:41, Al Krow said:

I've pulled together four live clips all using the RCF 932As (with no sub) for one indoor and 3 outdoor gigs, recorded through a Rode stereo mic into a Sony s6300. Compared to my previous 912As (which I've held onto as a very capable back up rig) I think the 932s do let the vox shine whilst maintaining a meaty low end. Let me know if you agree?

 

 

Sounds great to me. What a good band, very tight and the female vocalist is terrific. 

[Al Krow]

On 28/07/2025 at 19:10, SuperSeagull said:

Sounds great to me. What a good band, very tight and the female vocalist is terrific. 

 

Thanks, that's very kind of you to say - I'd best not ask which of three female vox featured, haha!

 

And hopefully an endorsement of the RCF 932As delivering the sound.

Edited Wednesday at 14:33 by Al Krow

[Phil Starr]

On 19/07/2025 at 11:41, Al Krow said:

I've pulled together four live clips all using the RCF 932As (with no sub) for one indoor and 3 outdoor gigs, recorded through a Rode stereo mic into a Sony s6300. Compared to my previous 912As (which I've held onto as a very capable back up rig) I think the 932s do let the vox shine whilst maintaining a meaty low end. Let me know if you agree?

 

 

I've probably said this before but I'd challenge anyone to listen to Feel It Still on that recording and say you can't do bass properly without backline. You really nailed that tone, and live too.

[Chienmortbb]

Tonight I am in total control of the PA so to add to the usual gig nerves I have that to contend with! Add the tantrums of a muddled aged child (singer)..,

 

However I have worked through things many time at home and I should be OK😀

[Chienmortbb]

On 02/08/2025 at 13:30, Chienmortbb said:

Tonight I am in total control of the PA so to add to the usual gig nerves I have that to contend with! Add the tantrums of a muddled aged child (singer)..,

 

However I have worked through things many time at home and I should be OK😀

Well FOH got good comments and as the Singist was in a chatty mood, all was good BUT I could not get the stage monitors to a usable level. We could hear the FoH quite well on stage and that make me wonder whether that was adding to the problems. We go again next Sat  with a few changes that might help. 😀
 

 

[Phil Starr]

8 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Well FOH got good comments and as the Singist was in a chatty mood, all was good BUT I could not get the stage monitors to a usable level. We could hear the FoH quite well on stage and that make me wonder whether that was adding to the problems. We go again next Sat  with a few changes that might help. 😀
 

 

A good start then John

 

Perhaps if you tell everyone what the set up was we might be able to help a little. Did you mic the drums this time?

 

Was the lack of volume from the monitors down to feedback issues or lack of gain?

[Chienmortbb]

We did not mic the drums although we did have the drum mics there. 
 

With the monitors, it was the onset of feedback. I believe, but I am happy to be corrected that the monitors were at the wrong angle. They are passive and cuboid in shape,  and were on a typical bookshelf monitor so really pointing at out legs. This is where I will start next week. Either add to my collection of one 8” active speaker, or make some new monitor stands angled at around 45 degrees. 
 

 

 

[Phil Starr]

That would do it

 

Even with horns the output off axis would be reduced a little, below the crossover point of course you are getting sound from the woofer and with an 8" speaker the crossover point could be as high as 3kHz, most of the midrange which is essential for speech (and presumably singing) is below that. I noticed the other day that your feedback is very high frequency and seemed to be over a narrow band. Given your singers very random approach to PA in general and eq in particular I dismissed this at the time as operator error but some horns have quite sharp resonances due to phase problems in the horn. You could try and locate that frequency and filter it out  alternatively turn down the top end a little and boost the mids. Either way you need to get the monitors pointing at your ears. Get some wedges sorted to put under them for next week.

 

Which mic does your singer use? If it's a cardioid like the SM58 then make sure the speaker is pointing down the gun barrel, at the back of the mic, if it's a super Cardioid like the Beta 58 then the monitors need to be slighly to one side, roughly 135deg. Some mics are better at rejecting feedback than others so that is worth a look too. 

 

Then there are the human issues. He needs to trust that you will do everything you can to sort his problems but he needs to talk to you.  It should be simple enough to explain that if the microphone is at the point of feedback then he simply can't turn it up. You have to turn something else down, so ask him what he can hear most loudly in the mix at that point and turn that down. That might in turn mean adding something to the FOH but that shouldn't be a problem. There could also be problems with his mic technique, moving closer to the mic will give him extra volume without extra gain and feedback problems. The other problem may well be hearing loss, everybody our age has it and people in bands usually worse than average. I struggle to pick out conversations in noisy rooms and he may be struggling to pick out his voice in the mix, especially as the band get louder and he gets tired. Again it's mid range losses that are the problem so boosting mids in the monitors will help. If he's ever had a hearing test and knows what frequencies he needs more of then that would help

 

Another idea to help might be to consider side fills as monitors, hide your monitors behind the PA mount them on stands at head height and point them across the stage. This works well if you have super cardioid mics whch are less sensitive to sound coming from the sides.

 

 

[Al Krow]

I guess one huge advantage of IEMs is removing a major source of potential feedback from the stage sound?

[Phil Starr]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I guess one huge advantage of IEMs is removing a major source of potential feedback from the stage sound?

It would be, and would address any minor hearing issues as he could have a personalised eq for his monitoring. John's problem is mainly that his singer will have no truck with modernity, I think having monitors at all was an innovation.

[Chienmortbb]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I guess one huge advantage of IEMs is removing a major source of potential feedback from the stage sound?

Our singer will not use IEMs. 

[Al Krow]

18 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

Our singer will not use IEMs. 

 

Ah ok. In my experience it's been the guitarist who wants to stick with backline and "real amps" which, tbf, I can completely understand. Whereas singers, in my experience, generally jump at using IEMs as they can hear themselves really well and only have acoustic drums on stage blaring out. Particularly helped if the desk has really decent preamps which our CQ kit does (a noticeable step up from my previous Soundcraft MTK12). 

 

The combination of having a personalised mix at the volume we each want (potentially also giving much less damage to our hearing?), decent IEM earpieces, and quality desk preamps has made the gigging experience a much more enjoyable one for me, and I'm blessed that my current crew (7 of us, in total, on rotation) are all totally on board and very happy with IEMs. 

 

I guess I could probably say I'm a convert, haha, having switched to IEMs for the last couple of years whilst previously regularly gigging with amps and monitors for a much longer while before that.

[Chienmortbb]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

Ah ok. In my experience it's been the guitarist who wants to stick with backline and "real amps" which, tbf, I can completely understand. Whereas singers, in my experience, generally jump at using IEMs as they can hear themselves really well and only have acoustic drums on stage blaring out. Particularly helped if the desk has really decent preamps which our CQ kit does (a noticeable step up from my previous Soundcraft MTK12). 

 

The combination of having a personalised mix at the volume we each want (potentially also giving much less damage to our hearing?), decent IEM earpieces, and quality desk preamps has made the gigging experience a much more enjoyable one for me, and I'm blessed that my current crew (7 of us, in total, on rotation) are all totally on board and very happy with IEMs. 

 

I guess I could probably say I'm a convert, haha, having switched to IEMs for the last couple of years whilst previously regularly gigging with amps and monitors for a much longer while before that.

I would be there in a shot if I could, who said the dinosaurs are extinct?

[Owen]

14 minutes ago, Chienmortbb said:

I would be there in a shot if I could, who said the dinosaurs are extinct?

Does your singer provide the mic and the wedges?

[Chienmortbb]

Further to the comments, I remember a gig where the stage was so small for us as a 5 piece that we had to place the monitors at the side. I seem to remember a very nice monitor sound. 

 

The monitors I use have a 60x60 dispersion on the horns, so I should have realised that we were firing at our feet. Make some new wedges to angle them at our ears next week. 

 

One other thing was, actually two other things, the thumb screw from one of the 12" tops was missing, and the other would not tighten, the thread had stripped. I could contact the seller, but he would deny all responsibility. They had been loaned to the guitarist for a recent gig of his occasional band, but I had not checked them before lending them out. I had a spare M8 machine screw and ran it through the insert in the cabinet. It went in easily at first, but just before getting to the end of the insert is stiffened.  Using the correct sized spanner, I gently tried to use the screw to clear the thread.  It did finally go through, and so I was happy to search for new Thumb Screws. Despite searching for local suppliers, only Mr Bezos Emporium had the right size and they will be arriving tomorrow.

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Owen said:

Does your singer provide the mic and the wedges?

We supply our own mics and the monitors are mine.  The singer has an SM58, I use a Sontronics Solo and the guitarist has a Behringer XM8500. 

My mic is a super-cardioid and the others are cardioids.  The Singer and I have good mic technique, but I keep trying to get the guitarist to sing closer to the mic.