steviedee Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) Really an academic question but the other day, I was asked to tune down a semi tone for a section of a song. I was using 5er so potentially a semitone down from a low B. I’ve modified what I play so it’s fine but there was a wee bit of discussion about pedals etc and I was wondering if there is a pedal that can handle down tuning low notes? Played about with detuning on the Helix briefly and it was surprisingly good in the higher register but shit as it got lower! Edited April 13 by steviedee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 When the freq gets lower, the processing takes longer time. It's hard to produce reasonable sounds in the lowest register, pure physics. Would you consider using sounds one octave higher - at least the ones needed - and process your sound with some pedal? Some compression and OD/dist/fuzz? A hint of reverb may make the sound full. EQ is always your friend. Cabs are not even capable of producing any feasible sound in that 20 - 40 Hz area (instrument handling noises consume lots of energy - this is the reason to use an HPF). It's the harmonics we hear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviedee Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 48 minutes ago, itu said: When the freq gets lower, the processing takes longer time. It's hard to produce reasonable sounds in the lowest register, pure physics. Would you consider using sounds one octave higher - at least the ones needed - and process your sound with some pedal? Some compression and OD/dist/fuzz? A hint of reverb may make the sound full. EQ is always your friend. Cabs are not even capable of producing any feasible sound in that 20 - 40 Hz area (instrument handling noises consume lots of energy - this is the reason to use an HPF). It's the harmonics we hear. Thanks for the info! As I say it’s kind of academic as I’ve just modified what play so there is no need to detune but it was just out of curiosity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloney Balderdash Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 10 hours ago, itu said: When the freq gets lower, the processing takes longer time. It's hard to produce reasonable sounds in the lowest register, pure physics. Would you consider using sounds one octave higher - at least the ones needed - and process your sound with some pedal? Some compression and OD/dist/fuzz? A hint of reverb may make the sound full. EQ is always your friend. Cabs are not even capable of producing any feasible sound in that 20 - 40 Hz area (instrument handling noises consume lots of energy - this is the reason to use an HPF). It's the harmonics we hear. Just to specify, the reason why the processing takes longer the lower the frequency of the incoming signal is is that the wave length gets longer the lower you go, so it takes slightly longer for the pedal to actually get a signal that it is able to detect/track as a specific note. So no matter how fast the processor and algorithm of the picthshifter is there is simply a physical limit to how fast it is possible for it to track. Edited April 13 by Baloney Balderdash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumOne Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, steviedee said: Thanks for the info! As I say it’s kind of academic as I’ve just modified what play so there is no need to detune but it was just out of curiosity! I've encountered this before from guitarists saying 'can you drop down a semitone' or 'you need to pay in drop D' (while I play a 5 string). I'm not convinced they know what they are talking about! Can play that low D on a 5 string,what do they care about how I fret it?! And is a low A# or lower really needed? I mean, almost all Reggae and Dub is with standard tuned 4 string down to low E and that sounds like plenty of low end - it's about the EQ and volume and giving Bass the space rather than playing inaudible rumble. And there are always alternative notes (like a third or fifth up). But anyway. Yeah, I've found multi fx best at detuning just by a set amount like a semitone if it really is needed (but I'm yet to find a situation where it really is needed). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 45 minutes ago, SumOne said: I've encountered this before from guitarists saying 'can you drop down a semitone' or 'you need to pay in drop D' (while I play a 5 string). I'm not convinced they know what they are talking about! This! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimfist Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 This is a topic I spent a little bit of time chasing last year. I currently use a Fractal Audio Systems FM9 Turbo, which has a very good "virtual capo" allowing for alt tunings. Though it is very good (better than anything I'd tried previously), a product called the Virtual Jeff Pro was brought to my attention as a product to try out for its low-latency pitch shifting. Long story short, the Virtual Jeff was very good, arguably on par with the FM9 pitch shifting, but in the end the FM9 won the comparison by a very slim margin. I was hoping to use dedicated pitch shifting in order to avoid having to carry a second bass guitar, tuned a half-step down (E-flat), 4-string basses only. My personal take is this: it CAN be done, but it depends on the content of the bass part as well as your tolerance for the bass sound being altered from its native tone. If you're plunking 1/8th notes at 110 bpm and just holding the bottom down, it's fine. Once tempo ramps up and bass figures get more speedy and complex (1/16th notes) on the low strings, the faults start to show. I've got an especially low tolerance for digital processing latency. In the end, I gave up on using pitch shifting for this type of stuff, though others do use it to their satisfaction, especially on 6-string guitars, where it can work very well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Apparently decent capos for bass exist 😊 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviedee Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 Very informative replies to this, thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattpbass Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 On 13/04/2024 at 07:20, steviedee said: Really an academic question but the other day, I was asked to tune down a semi tone for a section of a song. I was using 5er so potentially a semitone down from a low B. I’ve modified what I play so it’s fine but there was a wee bit of discussion about pedals etc and I was wondering if there is a pedal that can handle down tuning low notes? Played about with detuning on the Helix briefly and it was surprisingly good in the higher register but shit as it got lower! Which effect were you using on the Stomp? I regularly use Poly Capo to drop a semi-tone or two and it works great, although I’ve not tried it below low E. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviedee Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 1 hour ago, mattpbass said: Which effect were you using on the Stomp? I regularly use Poly Capo to drop a semi-tone or two and it works great, although I’ve not tried it below low E. The Poly Capo I believe, and it was a semitone below the low B so probably just a bit too low! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattpbass Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Yeah I’ve not tried to reach those subsonic limits. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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