Identifying time signatures

[Dazed]

I listen to a lot of music with unusual and often varying time signatures in the same piece. 
 

Is there a trick to identifying them and counting them? I tend to have learnt them through lots of repetition and a kind of memory as opposed to technically being able to work them out. 

[Huw Foster]

There are loads of tricks for sure. 

 

For example, the difference between 3/4 (waltz) and 6/8.

 

3/4 will have a strong first beat, with the second and third beats usually having a similar accent to one another. It also doesn't occur much in modern pop/rock etc, so it's more likely to be 6/8...

 

If it has a triplet feel but you can count a strong 1, 2, then it's most likely 6/8. You could count this as one-two-three two-two-three to make sure. Notable examples include: Manic Depression - Jimi Hendrix, Untitled - D'Angelo, At Last - Etta James. 

 

Some time signatures you can extrapolate from 6/8. If it sounds like it has a beat missing (one-two-three one-two) it's probably 5/8. (Take Five - Dave Brubeck)

 

If it sounds like a bar of 4 with a bit missing, it's probably 7/8. Typically a 4 and a 3, but not always. 

 

If it sounds like two bars of 4 with a beat missing in one of them, it's 7/4. (Money - Pink Floyd)

 

Of course these are generalisations, but they tend to get you near enough to the answer!

Edited November 7, 2023 by Huw Foster

[Huw Foster]

Having said all of that, you want to get to a point when you're not counting, so your memory approach is the best way to go about it. It does help to contextualise them in the first place though!

[Baloney Balderdash]

This is a really great video for this:

 

[Dazed]

I think is is where my appreciation of odd time signatures may have started as a youngling drinking Vimto and Coke cocktails 

 

 

[Daz39]

I spent several (occasionally drunken) years at Uni listening to Dream Theater and Rush endlessly - so the odd time seeped into my head as I practiced noodling along. I'm reasonably good at spotting all the 'usual' odd times - it's just the random 13/8s and whatever Starless (King Crimson) is in (13/8 to 13/16) that hurts. 

I find it easier if the music is odd time but in a regular repeating riff format, like Prog Metal, as opposed to some Yes songs which just wander off into odd-time in a jazz-like 'we'll get to a chorus or something eventually' thing.

[Dazed]

I listen to a lot of Cardiacs Thumpermonkey and the like. 
Have a go at this beauty

 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

I might add that I used to play the brighter and more melodic "lead" bass in a hardcore and noise rock influenced math rock band, named "Menfolk", which featured 2 bass players in the lineup, the other bass player predominantly serving a somewhat more traditional supportive role, and beside that also consisting of a guitarist/vocalist (it's a mystery, bordering to pure magic, how he could "sing"/scream the lyrics while at the same time executing the rhythmically rather complex guitar parts, despite the vocals rarely exactly following those), and an absolute monster drummer, who was kind of the unofficial band leader (and our recording technician and producer).

 

What I wanted to say with that is just that odd time signatures/meters, and even changing meters within the same song, become kind of second nature to me, and a lot of the stuff I write on bass, well actually a lot of the stuff i compose in general, to this day is in odd meters.

 

However I still have issues with identifying exactly what the different time signatures/meters are, but, as said, playing them is kind of second nature and not at all odd to me, so I naturally incorporate them in my compositions, and have no issues replicating or playing over them either when thrown at me in a jam/band context.

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Owen]

17 hours ago, Dazed said:

I think is is where my appreciation of odd time signatures may have started as a youngling drinking Vimto and Coke cocktails 

 

 

That song is the product of a sick mind. I love it. Imagine a world where you are normalising really extended stuff for children with top drawer singers instead of Apple Loops.

[Dazed]

And for the readers amongst us 

 

 

[jrixn1]

6 hours ago, Dazed said:

And for the readers amongst us

 

I would say that writing it in 7/8 is not correct.  By doing that, none of the strong beats is ending up in the right place.  My starting point would be putting the pulse at quarter note = 159bpm, and listen to where the bass and drums are falling.

[Dazed]

Im not sure whether that was done for simplicity, another score I saw had it in 4/4 & 3/4. What would you write it as?

[jrixn1]

22 minutes ago, Dazed said:

Im not sure whether that was done for simplicity, another score I saw had it in 4/4 & 3/4. What would you write it as?

 

Yes exactly that - some sort of mixture of 3/4 and 4/4.  There's more than one way to hear it though, so one person might come up with different bar divisions than the next.