Finished Pics! A small acoustic 6-string for some special little people

[Si600]

The benefit a side sound hole brings, is that when someone inevitably posts something (e.g. a cheese sandwich) into the body, you'll be able to get it out again. 

[Andyjr1515]

2 minutes ago, Si600 said:

The benefit a side sound hole brings, is that when someone inevitably posts something (e.g. a cheese sandwich) into the body, you'll be able to get it out again. 

 

That said, it's also just another place to get a small arm stuck!

[Richard R]

A side sound hole? As in, a hole in the side to let sound out? Never heard of or seen that before. 

 

 

[Richard R]

https://breedlovemusic.com/acoustic-guitar-blog/how-many-sound-holes-should-my-guitar-have-exploring-the-side-mounted-soundhole

 

Well I never!

[Andyjr1515]

3 hours ago, Richard R said:

https://breedlovemusic.com/acoustic-guitar-blog/how-many-sound-holes-should-my-guitar-have-exploring-the-side-mounted-soundhole

 

Well I never!

Indeed!

The reason it could be useful here is to add a bit of perceived bass to counteract the higher pitch of the v small scale guitar.

[Andyjr1515]

Turning my attention to the bridge plate, I only then remembered that, to minimise the stretch for little arms, I'm joining the neck at the 12th, as with a classical, and not at the 14th that the X-brace pattern is based on.  As such, my bridge will be further back than a standard steel string acoustic - and therefore one of the two diagonal braces is in the way!

Easily sorted - a hot iron along the length of the brace soon softened the glue enough to remove it:

 

With the bridge plate being where it will be, I don't think I need that extra brace repositioning - I'll just leave it out.  Paper template done and I'll use that to cut a slice of maple or similar for the plate in the morning:

 

[Richard R]

So, after all that careful taping and brace shaping I watched in the video, the luthier plonks a great lump of wood right in the middle and therefore changes everything. Could the top be voiced with that block in place?

 

This is why I am not a craftsman,  a tendency to overthink things...

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Richard R
... rather than actually get on and do them

[Andyjr1515]

17 minutes ago, Richard R said:

So, after all that careful taping and brace shaping I watched in the video, the luthier plonks a great lump of wood right in the middle and therefore changes everything. Could the top be voiced with that block in place?

 

This is why I am not a craftsman,  a tendency to overthink things...

 

 

 

You're not over thinking it at all.   Are you talking about the bridge plate or the bridge itself...or both?

 

Yes - it definitely affects it...as does gluing the top to the sides, and fitting the neck with the fretboard overhang resting on the top. 

 

Generally, the tap tuning would be done with the internal bridge plate fitted.  However, the bridge itself is generally not fitted until the very end - including after varnishing, etc. !  That said, with the bridge plate already fitted, the bridge itself won't change the shape or flex of the wood and so shouldn't sonically affect anything.  But gluing the sides certainly will - as will fitting the neck.  And fitting the strings can make a BIG difference because it tensions the top and even changes the shape of the top.  So the conventional wisdom is that if the top isn't ringing to start with, then it certainly won't ring once you've done everything else to it.  But if the top IS ringing at all frequencies before everything else is fitted, then at least it has half a chance. 

 

There is a lot of voodoo around the topic - a bit like 'tonewoods' on a solid guitar or bass - but the basic principle is that if the top has been made more flexible through its thickness, the position of the braces and the flex of those braces, then it will reverberate in harmony with the note frequencies.  If it is stiff, then if won't and most of the sound you hear will be simply the strings vibrating...it will sound dull. 

[Richard R]

That all makes sense, tap-tune with the plate fitted. In the video that wasn't the case, but he was using scrap tops.

 

In the case of an acoustic guitar I can see it's not " voodoo",  everything really will affect everything else. Starting with a top that rings as much as possible would be the best option, every other component will then act as some sort of filter/eq on top of that.

 

In the case of a solid body then my suspicion is that the strings and pickups are > 90% of the sound. But let's not open that debate here. 

[Andyjr1515]

Progress is a bit stop start at the moment with life's many distractions, but a few steps forward this morning.

 

I got my 'I can't remember where I bought this and it's not perfect but actually does a pretty decent job' purfling/binding router jig out and attacked the top:

 

Both channels done and just waiting a razor-blade trim of the whiskers:

 

For both the purfling and binding I will use my preferred method - a la veneer - of PVA on both surfaces, left to dry and then iron them on with a small travel iron.

 

The purfling didn't need pre-bending and I just went ahead with ironing it on - I'll take photos of the method when I do the binding.

 

The binding is ebony (or was it rocklite?) with a teeny white stripe:

 

I won't actually fit it yet, but I have started pre-bending the binding for the top as the bending pipe was still handy:

 

I've also started sorting the end graft - it will be a simple one, really just joining the top and back binding and thin white lines.  I have sawn and chiselled the end graft slot:

 

The top and bottom binding won't be fitted until the back is on and channel routed.  Then, all being well, the end graft will tally up both sides something like this:

 

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

One of the jobs before I can put the back on is to sort the fit of the neck while I have easy access.  It will be a glued joint but I will also use a bolt and insert, for additional security and to ease these next steps.

Having got a 'starting' neck angle and fit, I double-sided-taped some emery cloth onto the body to improve the fit by loose-fitting the neck and raising it and lowering it a small distance to sand down any high spots.  The sanding marks show you where there is contact and whether all surfaces are level or not:

 

 

Next job was to fit a bolt hole in the neck block and an insert in the tenon:

 

 

Then, bolting the neck on, I could work out the neck angle fretboard alignments and fine tune with some 'flossing' strips of emery until:

- the neck angle lines the fretboard up OK with the bridge

- and the side fit lines up the fretboard dots with the centre line of the body:

 

A final bit of flossing for a decently tight fit:

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

It was time to glue the fretboard to the neck:

 

 

And then to turn my attention to the bridge.

 Usually, on an acoustic you fit the bridge once the top and back are both fitted.  But to do that, you have a special long-reach clamp that fits through the soundhole.  And this soundhole is just too small.  And so I will fit the bridge while the back is still off.

So to get that ready, I need to cut the saddle slot.  

On a nylon strung acoustic, you generally don't have the intonation issues to the same degree as steel string and so the bridges on classical guitars are generally square to the centre-line.  For good measure, though, I will use a 3mm thick piece of bone to give me at least a modicum of adjustment if my understanding is wrong!

I made a small jig out of some scrap wood to use with my Dremel precision router base to cut the slot:

 

Yup - that will do

 

 

Next task is prepare the surfaces and glue it in place 

 

If ever there was a 'measure 15 times and glue once...it's fitting the bridge'

 

I am using a couple of pieces of cocktail stick to use as positioning pegs:

 

And then masking tape over the whole area, bridge positioned with the cocktail sticks, scored round with a scalpel and peeled off where the bridge will go:

 

You can never have too many clamps! :

 

And - here is the voice of experience - a peel off of the tape once all the squeeze out has squeezed out but before it hardens!

 

And on a question of scale - those are my small clamps 

[Jakester]

27 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

And on a question of scale - those are my small clamps

 

Ah, I just thought they were very far away.

[Andyjr1515]

One of the nice things about doing stuff on a small scale is that I've been able to experiment a bit - and some things will now be incorporated if I build another full-size one sometime  

 

One thing on full-sized ones I've struggled with is on the backs -  especially getting the traditional back brace and centre strip arrangement to hold the spheroidal shape after I take it out of my 15 foot radius dish.  What I find is that the radius-bottomed cross braces hold the curve in one direction, but the traditional cross-grain centre strip has no chance of holding the lengthway radius and so what I end up with is a section from a lengthways cylinder and not a sphere.

Surely what it needs is proper radius-bottomed lengthways braces??

Like these:

 

And glued in the 15 foot radius dish - well, to my admitted surprise...it worked!!!! :party

 

 

 

So the next job, after I've added a label, was gluing the back on:

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

And this below is the way I personally glue the bindings nowadays. 

 

And here, the disclaimer that I used to put on all of my build threads: "I'm always happy to describe what I do and why...but never assume that this is how it should be done and that I know what I'm doing.  I simply find that it works for me with my (limited) skills and equipment"  

 

So why don't I apply bindings the 'normal' way? 

 

- Because I can't stand the 12 hours of sheer hope, once I've taped and bound the glued bindings, the hope that once I unbind it the joints are all going to be tight and gap-free. 

 

- Because, for me, they never were gap free.  Oh, the dashed hopes!  Oh, the anguish! 

               

And so a year or two back, I had a crazy idea.  The way I apply veneer is that I apply a decent PVA wood glue to both surfaces, I let both surfaces fully dry unjoined, and then position the veneer and iron it on.  Yes - with a standard household iron.  There are tips and tricks, like all the things we do, but my veneer results have been pretty much successful from the first one I tried after learning of the method.

So could it be done with bindings?

 

Well. I tried it on a build a few years ago, and I've used the method ever since.  And that is how I am going to do this one.

 

I had already applied the purfling using the same method, but now it was time for the pre-bent ebony bindings.

So, for what it's worth (and please do heed the above disclaimer), this is my method:

 

-  I tend to use the 'standard' white PVA Evostick wood glue simply because I know it works.  I have successfully used Titebond also, but I am a creature of habit

-  I put a thin coat on ALL joining surfaces and let them dry (usually around 30 mins - longer is fine).  Here below, the white bits are simply the areas that haven't yet dried - there is glue on every bit of every single joining surface ***this is important***

 

- Because the glue surfaces are then dry, I can position and re-position everything as often as I like until I'm happy I know where to start.  I use the hot iron, an inch at a time, to melt the glue between the two surfaces.  While the glue is molten, it melds together and the binding is moveable for final positioning.

- While still hot, I press the binding from the top to fully seat it into the channel:

 

- I then hold the binding in place with gloved hand for 15-20 seconds during which the melted glue re-solidifies and is fully re-solidified.

- I then move round to the next inch or so

- The melting is FULLY repeatable.  So if I realise that it isn't quite seated properly, I just put the iron on it for a few seconds to remelt it, close the gap and hold it for the 15-20 seconds to resolidify

- The binding is ready for trimming/scraping immediately.  This whole side is around 20 minutes after I started ironing it on:

 

- 30 minutes after starting the ironing, it's fully finished, ready to final sand and varnish if this is your last piece:

 

  

Edited October 11, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

I've said before to new builders, 'It isn't that experienced builders don't frequently make rookie mistakes - it's just that they get much better at hiding them!'  

 

And a case in point:

"When you use a binding router, don't forget to put in a temporary end graft in the slot"  Because if you don't, then the router guide will drop into the slot and your binding channel will suddenly become 2mm deeper than you intended"  

 

Which is why, all of a sudden, I've decided to fit some herringbone purfling on the back!

  

 

Back binding now done, ironed on as above, ready for some serious sanding:

 

 

 

 

Folks who have followed some of my other builds will know that I generally use the Tru-oil slurry and buff method to prepare the finish even if I am going to ultimately varnish it.  This is no exception.  The back of the neck will be left slurry-and-buffed, but the body and headstock will be eventually gloss coated with standard, brushed-on high volatiles (sorry!) polyurethane varnish.

What I use the tru-oil slurry for is to grain-fill, gap-fill and to prepare the surface for finish varnishing.

 

And don't you just have to love what Tru-oil does for wood! First coat applied with 180 grit emery and wiped off.  The top is at the moment simply plain sanded - tru-oil won't be used here as it has too strong a colour and so,at the appropriate stage, I will apply just polyurethane varnish to it:

 

 

 

 

So, starting to get there.  But it may well be at least a couple of weeks - MrsAndyjr1515 is starting to recover from Covid and is finding many more jobs for me to "more usefully occupy your (my) time with" - and we have the said little people here over next week and so it's all going to have to be tidied and hidden away! 

 

[Daz39]

Agog. Simply agog.

Wasted on the little blighters who will doubtless swing it about like extravagant troubadours, and then use it to surf down the stairs when they discover how awkward playing an F is.

[LowB_FTW]

14 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

And a case in point:

"When you use a binding router, don't forget to put in a temporary end graft in the slot"

And today I learned (among other things!) that binding requires a specific router/bit.

Everyday's a school day.

 

Mark

[SamIAm]

This build thread is amazing Andy, it reminds me of “The New Yankee Workshop” … watching the magic of a master builder creating a work of art, but in a way that almost (ALMOST!!!) tricks me into thinking I could give it a go. 😂

 

S’manth x

[Andyjr1515]

2 minutes ago, Smanth said:

tricks me into thinking I could give it a go

No tricks - we've all seen what you can do @Smanth.  This would be a walk in the (Central?) park in comparison to some of that

 

[SamIAm]

13 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

No tricks - we've all seen what you can do @Smanth.  This would be a walk in the (Central?) park in comparison to some of that

 

Stop that foolishness!

Oddly enough, now I’m back home I’ve been toying with having another go at Phoenix 🤔🤣

S’manth x

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, LowB_FTW said:

And today I learned (among other things!) that binding requires a specific router/bit.

Everyday's a school day.

 

Mark

The bit itself is not particularly special, @LowB_FTW.  It's just a rebate bit where the bottom bearing is smaller diameter than the cutter.  The method of keeping it the right depth, when both the top and the back are actually spherical is a bit more tricky which is why I use a cheapo version of the LMI jig where the router follows the rising and falling contour of the top or back as you move it round:

 

But my rookie error was more basic that that.  As the router bit bearing is following the side, the fact that I didn't have a temporary end graft in the slot I'd cut...

 

...meant my router bearing just followed that and I then had a 4mm binding rout instead of the 2mm intended 

 

 

 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Andyjr1515

[Richard R]

1 minute ago, Smanth said:

Stop that foolishness!

Oddly enough, now I’m back home I’ve been toying with having another go at Phoenix 🤔🤣

S’manth x

 Yes please!

[Andyjr1515]

2 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Oddly enough, now I’m back home I’ve been toying with having another go at Phoenix

Excellent!  See what I mean?

[Richard R]

Hope your better half recovers fully, Andy. And we'll just have to wait a fortnight for the next installment 🙃