Sparky Mark Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) I've also asked this question on Talkbass as I'd like to obtain as many informed responses as I can :- Does the 4 band Gallien Krueger active EQ implemented across many of its amplifier series produce an optimally flat voicing with these controls set at noon? If not, is it possible to adjust the 4 EQ controls to flatten any bumps and/or dips and what are these settings please? Many thanks in advance for your advice. Edited January 7, 2023 by Sparky Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but since the speaker doesn't have flat response it just doesn't matter. The amp probably has an EQ pre-shape as well, most do. Where EQ is concerned set it where it sounds best via trial and error. When it sounds good it is good. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Clock positions. Bass 10. Treble 10. Low mid 2. High mid 1. Contour hard left, or 'off'. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but since the speaker doesn't have flat response it just doesn't matter. The amp probably has an EQ pre-shape as well, most do. Where EQ is concerned set it where it sounds best via trial and error. When it sounds good it is good. Totally agree Bill but there are those that critique and pronounce judgement on manufacturers complete range of products based on their personal audition at this setting. EQ sections are there to be used and most modern amplifier EQs are extremely flexible enabling the user to dial in practically any tone they desire; assuming they have the knowledge to do so that is. Some also seem reluctant to stray from this noon position as if it is sacred and any adjustments equates to a compromise or corruption of a pure tone. Edited January 7, 2023 by Sparky Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilebodgers Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I can’t remember what the actual settings were, but I checked my MB500 with REW and it could definitely be set flat with the 4 band eq and the contour control all the way off. Setting all the eq pots to noon does give a pre-shape as that isn’t the 0- point, but there isn’t any other “hidden” shaping in the system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanPaul Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 I'm interested in this too. A few years ago I bought an 800RB via eBay. It arrived in a destroyed state and the seller had vanished. The only salvageable part was the pre-amp PCB. I'm building this into a chassis as a stand alone pre-amp. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Sparky Mark said: Some also seem reluctant to stray from this noon position as if it is sacred and any adjustments equate to a compromise or corruption of a pure tone. IMHO those who have that attitude have no idea what a 'pure' tone is and would be shocked to see the measured response of their rig. No component has flat response, starting with the bass, ending with the room where it's being played. If tone controls weren't meant to be used they wouldn't be there. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_buoninfante Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Sparky Mark said: I've also asked this question on Talkbass as I'd like to obtain as many informed responses as I can :- Does the 4 band Gallien Krueger active EQ implemented across many of its amplifier series produce an optimally flat voicing with these controls set at noon? If not, is it possible to adjust the 4 EQ controls to flatten any bumps and/or dips and what are these settings please? Many thanks in advance for your advice. My MBSIII does color the sound (and I like it ). Here's a quick test I did few months ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_buoninfante Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but since the speaker doesn't have flat response it just doesn't matter. The amp probably has an EQ pre-shape as well, most do. Where EQ is concerned set it where it sounds best via trial and error. When it sounds good it is good. Why wouldn't it matter? It's true what you are saying about the amp, etc , but that doesn't make the main question less valid. The simplest example where this would matter a lot is if you were to use the line/DI out to record. But, it might even be just curiosity. Or one might want to take the eq out the amp and use it somewhere else. Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying about using whatever settings sound good, but that's not the point, at least reading the main question. We shouldn't "dismiss" things so easily Edited January 7, 2023 by mario_buoninfante 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 7, 2023 Author Share Posted January 7, 2023 3 hours ago, nilebodgers said: I can’t remember what the actual settings were, but I checked my MB500 with REW and it could definitely be set flat with the 4 band eq and the contour control all the way off. Setting all the eq pots to noon does give a pre-shape as that isn’t the 0- point, but there isn’t any other “hidden” shaping in the system. This seems to be the common consensus of where the GK 4 band EQ should be set for a nominally flat signal:- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 hours ago, Sparky Mark said: This seems to be the common consensus of where the GK 4 band EQ should be set for a nominally flat signal:- Could be my memory is faulty due to the knobs being donkey backwards from everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I had the GK Legacy 800 and found it a very mid focused amp. I had to dial back the mids a lot and took a lot of button pressing and tweaking to get “ my sound” Great amps but not vintage enough sounding for me , not warm sounding 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 1 hour ago, BassAdder60 said: I had the GK Legacy 800 and found it a very mid focused amp. I had to dial back the mids a lot and took a lot of button pressing and tweaking to get “ my sound” Great amps but not vintage enough sounding for me , not warm sounding Thanks. That's interesting, I've only seen plots that show GK heads to be slightly mids scooped with boosted bass and treble. Of course our individual experiences are a result of all the other elements of our signal chains; technique, strings, bass guitar, speakers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassAdder60 Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sparky Mark said: Thanks. That's interesting, I've only seen plots that show GK heads to be slightly mids scooped with boosted bass and treble. Of course our individual experiences are a result of all the other elements of our signal chains; technique, strings, bass guitar, speakers etc. The bass control if I recall is 100hz and I found I couldn’t get a warm deep tone ( more like Ashdown / Trace ) and this made the mids appear more prominent. Very good modern amp and very loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 8, 2023 Author Share Posted January 8, 2023 7 hours ago, BassAdder60 said: The bass control if I recall is 100hz and I found I couldn’t get a warm deep tone ( more like Ashdown / Trace ) and this made the mids appear more prominent. Very good modern amp and very loud The Legacy series uses the same EQ frequency points as all the GK heads I can find user manuals for going back many years :- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 08/01/2023 at 21:44, Sparky Mark said: The Legacy series uses the same EQ frequency points as all the GK heads I can find user manuals for going back many years. Yes I would agree with this. RB heads and even as far back as Backline amps appear to use these same voicings. I have one of the very old orange and grey air cooled Backline 250's and a more modern Backline 600 which is as near to an RB400/700 as you can get. With all controls at noon on these amps I wouldn't say it was an optimally flat voicing but it is a very pleasing sound to my ears. I think GK have a consistent default voicing across their amp models and over a period of time thats when folks start on about a GK Sound. I can't think of any pre-amp from any manufacturer i've played through that i'd ever considered being a flat voicing with all knobs at noon. Pre-amp controls are there to be twiddled with to create your sound in my book. That being said, I do like all knobs at noon on my GK's and all the main fun is usually to be had using the contour knob and that wonderful GK boost knob/feature. If I were to change any settings from noon, I would boost the bass to 2 o'clock, cut the lo-mid to 11 o'clock and leave Hi-mid at noon and treble cut at 11 o'clock. Contour @ 2 o'clock and boost at 9 or 10 o'clock. 🙂 Those may be optimal voicings for me but I don't think I could say they were optimally flat for a GK if there is such a thing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, DGBass said: Yes I would agree with this. RB heads and even as far back as Backline amps appear to use these same voicings. I have one of the very old orange and grey air cooled Backline 250's and a more modern Backline 600 which is as near to an RB400/700 as you can get. With all controls at noon on these amps I wouldn't say it was an optimally flat voicing but it is a very pleasing sound to my ears. I think GK have a consistent default voicing across their amp models and over a period of time thats when folks start on about a GK Sound. I can't think of any pre-amp from any manufacturer i've played through that i'd ever considered being a flat voicing with all knobs at noon. Pre-amp controls are there to be twiddled with to create your sound in my book. That being said, I do like all knobs at noon on my GK's and all the main fun is usually to be had using the contour knob and that wonderful GK boost knob/feature. If I were to change any settings from noon, I would boost the bass to 2 o'clock, cut the lo-mid to 11 o'clock and leave Hi-mid at noon and treble cut at 11 o'clock. Contour @ 2 o'clock and boost at 9 or 10 o'clock. 🙂 Those may be optimal voicings for me but I don't think I could say they were optimally flat for a GK if there is such a thing. This is how a GK MB500 Bass Gear Magazine lab test viewed the noon settings and where the EQ controls can be set to achieve an optimally flat signal. Edited January 11, 2023 by Sparky Mark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mario_buoninfante Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, DGBass said: I can't think of any pre-amp from any manufacturer i've played through that i'd ever considered being a flat voicing with all knobs at noon As a preamp pedal the Laney Digbeth turns out to be quite flat, see the post I linked above. I know it's not a measurement done with pro equipment, but it gives you a pretty good idea anyway. And the audio examples seem to confirm. Edited January 11, 2023 by mario_buoninfante Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DGBass Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Sparky Mark said: This is how a GK MB500 Bass Gear Magazine lab test viewed the noon settings and where the EQ controls can be set to achieve an optimally flat signal. Very interesting. Just tried this setting on my Backline 600. It does sound almost the same as bypassing the preamp completely by plugging straight into the return. Thats probably as flat as it can get. The return maybe has a little less lo-mid? Just curious now what sort of playing situation you would need an optimally flat voicing for? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 I think that flat setting would be helpful when tweaking the amp to a wanted sound. Of course the cab will colour the sound a lot, but the eq will give a good hint on where to go from that. I might take eq knobs away, and put them back to represent flat. (Maybe I have to measure my Soul head. And the Interstellar Overdrive. But measuring cabinets without an anechoic chamber is a chore...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Mark Posted January 11, 2023 Author Share Posted January 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, DGBass said: Just curious now what sort of playing situation you would need an optimally flat voicing for? I like to set any amp to optimally flat in two situations:- 1. When using my Tech 21 Para Driver DI or SVT VR pedals, as they also have a mid scoop at their noon settings. (Edit; for me, a double scoop is bad unless it's chocolate and vanilla). 2. When playing my acoustic bass guitar where I'm just wanting to amplify its natural tone, not add a coloured tone designed to sweeten an electric bass with a mid scoop and bass/treble boost. These settings are recommended also for returning a GK to optimally flat:- Edited January 11, 2023 by Sparky Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 12, 2023 Share Posted January 12, 2023 I have found it immensely useful knowing the nominally flat settings on provided backline gigs. Plug in my pedal board and off to the races. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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