Stylon Pilson Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 On Wednesday afternoon I went into the studio with my band's songwriter / guitarist / vocalist / leader / frontman to put bass down on a few songs. Over the course of 2.5 hours we managed to do four songs. For the most part, this consisted of 5 minutes for me to record my take, and then half an hour of the producer drag-dropping each note in his DAW so that it lined up perfectly with the existing tracks, and muting all the string noise between notes. At one point, while he was dragging a note, I said "so, how many milliseconds out would you say that one was?" He paused, checked the screen, and said "I say about 1/24th of a beat". The reason that I had asked him at this point was that, from looking at the waveforms, this note seemed to be at the very top end of the range - most of them required far, far less dragging than this one. I appreciate that this method is probably standard operating procedure. As the producer said, it makes the song sound tighter. The aforementioned band leader wants a tight sound, so I'm going to go along with his wishes without kicking up a stink. But my personal preference would be for a more natural, honest sound. There's one particular string of three notes which has been so perfectified that I don't think I'll ever be able to listen to it without cringing. To most people, it will sound great. To me, it will sound like a con. Top priority is that the end recording sounds great. But I wanted to vent. And to find out what opinions and related experiences other basschatterians might have. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='313680' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:02 PM']For the most part, this consisted of 5 minutes for me to record my take, and then half an hour of the producer drag-dropping each note in his DAW so that it lined up perfectly with the existing tracks, and muting all the string noise between notes.[/quote] I'm with you. Cleaning up's fine, but I think it's a bit sad when producers are basically using computers to turn human performances into clinical, binary ones. It's basically like Photoshopping front covers of magazines. What started as a tool to iron out bad mistakes has become something used to create flawless beauty that doesn't really exist in real life. Besides, I bet your basslines were pretty good to start with! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbob Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [quote name='Stylon Pilson' post='313680' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:02 PM']On Wednesday afternoon I went into the studio with my band's songwriter / guitarist / vocalist / leader / frontman to put bass down on a few songs. Over the course of 2.5 hours we managed to do four songs. For the most part, this consisted of 5 minutes for me to record my take, and then half an hour of the producer drag-dropping each note in his DAW so that it lined up perfectly with the existing tracks, and muting all the string noise between notes. At one point, while he was dragging a note, I said "so, how many milliseconds out would you say that one was?" He paused, checked the screen, and said "I say about 1/24th of a beat". The reason that I had asked him at this point was that, from looking at the waveforms, this note seemed to be at the very top end of the range - most of them required far, far less dragging than this one. I appreciate that this method is probably standard operating procedure. As the producer said, it makes the song sound tighter. The aforementioned band leader wants a tight sound, so I'm going to go along with his wishes without kicking up a stink. But my personal preference would be for a more natural, honest sound. There's one particular string of three notes which has been so perfectified that I don't think I'll ever be able to listen to it without cringing. To most people, it will sound great. To me, it will sound like a con. Top priority is that the end recording sounds great. But I wanted to vent. And to find out what opinions and related experiences other basschatterians might have. S.P.[/quote] We were talking about this the other night funny enough, and I think there is a case in point to say that you have to be careful not to lose the soul of the song if that makes sense. Espscially if the song has developed through band practice and ideas etc. If on the other hand it was written on computer ,and lends itself to that disiplined sound then it may work. Either way you need to remain focused on the original object of the song. Or perhaps the above is all bollocks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I've had experiences where I've recorded on time perfectly first take, and other times where I've effectively been flogging a dead horse (usually because of fatigue). The thing about recording is not to take it too personally, its impossible to hide anything! Even lapses in concentration during the take are clearly audible in the timing and attack transients. I'm sure seasoned session musicans can do it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I've sat in a studio waiting for the editing to stop when it would have been quicker to just go back and record the number again!! Studio people have lost the point of their job, which is to record the musicians not reinvent the playing afterwards! What we are doing is Van Gough, what they are doing is painting by numbers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlbbb Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 My band is in the studio at the moment, and as far as editing goes, the only timing changes are ones that are very noticeable and detrimental to the song, such as when the g*itarists miss the opening beat, and even then it's only "very close" to the beat. We definitely prefer the natural feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderthumbs Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [quote name='chris_b' post='314099' date='Oct 24 2008, 07:51 PM']What we are doing is Van Gough, what they are doing is painting by numbers![/quote] Like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slaphappygarry Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 its a double edged battle sword As soon as you move one thing (a kick for example) you may need to shift the snare to compensate. Then, if you 'fixed' that, why not 'fix' that. The balance is knowing when to stop. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracer Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 To be honest, most sequencers have a 'humanise' function for a reason. If something is too perfect I find it a bit disconcerting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 [quote]I appreciate that this method is probably standard operating procedure. As the producer said, it makes the song sound tighter. The aforementioned band leader wants a tight sound, so I'm going to go along with his wishes without kicking up a stink. But my personal preference would be for a more natural, honest sound. There's one particular string of three notes which has been so perfectified that I don't think I'll ever be able to listen to it without cringing. To most people, it will sound great. To me, it will sound like a con. Top priority is that the end recording sounds great. But I wanted to vent. And to find out what opinions and related experiences other basschatterians might have.[/quote] Ask him to listen to some Masters At Work (MAW) for an example of how bass should go down in a mix, warts an all.... If he is going to that length why not just sample the bass and use the keyboard and stick it in a midi track. Even better just use a sequencer so you don't even need to turn up..... The best music in any genre including lots of dance music has well recorded live bass....don't let him get away with it as it will be sterile and kill the sound....or maybe he would be better doing techno ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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