Advice on what cab to get for the sound I'm after

[colinmk]

Hi,
I'm in the market for a new cabinet at the moment and I play an Epiphone Rivoli bass with a 60s gibson pickup put in it through an ampeg svp pro. The sound I like is one that really cuts through as I play quite a lot on the higher strings(sort of primal screamish/brmc sounding). I used to love the sound I got from the 8x10 ampeg cab I played through at our old practice rooms but theres no way I can get something that size.

So...I've been looking at the ampeg 410he and 410 hlf. From what I can make out the 410he would be the sound I'm after but is not meant to be used by itself and lacks enough power to be used on it's own. The 410hlf seems to be more for people that play 5/6 strings and I'm not sure it will have that classic ampeg sound that I liked from the 810. Would it be worth my while waiting until an old style 410he is available? Does anyone have any experience with these or any other ideas?

Cheers.

[rodl2005]

MAte IF U R after the sound of the OLD 810 Look NO FURTHER than the Bergantino NV610!!!!!!! It's aesier to move AND lighter than the SVT410HLF ( I had one o those & sold it for the NV610!!) The SVT410HLF is all LOWS not much mids & a tweeter for hi's. The NV610 is voiced to acvtually sound like the orig. Ampeg 810 & it nails it! Simply one of the BEST cabs around these days!!!!!!!! NO tweeter & sealed. Has a HEAP of punch & handles the B string on my 'ray 5 NO probs!

[coasterbass]

Yep - the Berg's are lovely, but they do cost a lot.

I had a 410HLF for 10 years and I liked the sound. As a 'one box solution' there aren't many cabs that can handle things like the HLF and, for the record, I'm a 4-string boy and it sounded fine. However it does weigh a tonne and is pretty awkward to shift as its pretty much a cube and has a low centre of gravity.

You might like to try the newer Peavey kit (an unusual view on this forum I know!) as I've found them to be very good at picking up the 'clang' sound, and at a far lower price than lots of kit. Equally Schroeder cabs have a mid-voicing that may lend themselves to your sound. I use a 1210R with an SVP and have been very happy. Much much easier to shift than the 410HLF too !!

[Raggy]

+1000000000000 for the Berg NV610

Best cab I have ever owned.

[artisan]

i play through a B410HLF & love it,massive full sound with plenty of highs too & i only play 4 string passive Fenders.
i tried this against an SVT410HLF & went for this as the SVT was way too big & heavy + it didn't sound much different to the B series cab (at least in the shop)

[colinmk]

Cheers for the replys,
Yeah from what I am hearing the hlf is a bit too low frequency orientated for me aswell as being a bit of a bitch to carry about. This berg cab sounds very appealing but aren't they american only? How much does it cost to get one of these to the UK, £1000+? I'm going to check out the Schroeder stuff too.

[colinmk]

[quote name='colinmk' post='310676' date='Oct 20 2008, 06:27 PM']Cheers for the replys,
Yeah from what I am hearing the hlf is a bit too low frequency orientated for me aswell as being a bit of a bitch to carry about. This berg cab sounds very appealing but aren't they american only? How much does it cost to get one of these to the UK, £1000+? I'm going to check out the Schroeder stuff too.[/quote]


Well after looking at the UK price for an NV610 - £1100+!!!!! I can safely say I won't be getting one. I'm now thinking of getting an SVT 410he for the time being and saving my pennies for an orange 1x15 or SVT 1x15 to eventually pair with it. What do you guys reckon to them apples?

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='colinmk' post='313306' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:06 PM']Well after looking at the UK price for an NV610 - £1100+!!!!! I can safely say I won't be getting one. I'm now thinking of getting an SVT 410he for the time being and saving my pennies for an orange 1x15 or SVT 1x15 to eventually pair with it. What do you guys reckon to them apples?[/quote]
Not a big fan of mixing cabs and even less of a fan of mixing cabs from different makes. If you want the Berg then Mark at Bass Direct may well be able to sort you out an ex-dem for a lot lot less than £1100. Its worth an ask.

I rate the SVT410HLF - heard it sounding great. Not exactly what you would call light mind.

[rodl2005]

Berg dealer in UK is BASSDIRECT.com.uk afaik Much easier to move than the SVT410HLF & AFAIK not more expensive either - well they aint here in AUS.

[colinmk]

[quote name='rodl2005' post='313461' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:08 AM']Berg dealer in UK is BASSDIRECT.com.uk afaik Much easier to move than the SVT410HLF & AFAIK not more expensive either - well they aint here in AUS.[/quote]


Well it says on their site £1100! Waaay to pricey for me.


I am seeing an old SVT 410he on ebay. Can anyone clear this up, are they 200watts or 500watts the old ones? 200watts will be pretty quiet I am imagining?

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='colinmk' post='314638' date='Oct 25 2008, 06:26 PM']Well it says on their site £1100! Waaay to pricey for me.[/quote]
And I said give mark a call. I paid a lot less than RRP for my gear. If you dont ask you dont get.
[quote name='colinmk' post='314638' date='Oct 25 2008, 06:26 PM']I am seeing an old SVT 410he on ebay. Can anyone clear this up, are they 200watts or 500watts the old ones? 200watts will be pretty quiet I am imagining?[/quote]
Power handling makes no difference to a cabs volume.

[colinmk]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='314650' date='Oct 25 2008, 06:39 PM']And I said give mark a call. I paid a lot less than RRP for my gear. If you dont ask you dont get.

Power handling makes no difference to a cabs volume.[/quote]

Aye sorry Ferret, I will give him a call and see what he says.

Volume perhaps not the correct word, but in my experience a 200watt speaker would not be enough to cut through at the level we play at. 500watt maybe though.

[bass_ferret]

OK mate. But you seem to be suffering a misconception about cabs. Two things affect the volume of a cab, the sensitivity (how many db with 1 watt at 1 metre) and how many watts that you are putting into the cab. The actual rating has no affect whatsoever.

[colinmk]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='314723' date='Oct 25 2008, 08:35 PM']OK mate. But you seem to be suffering a misconception about cabs. Two things affect the volume of a cab, the sensitivity (how many db with 1 watt at 1 metre) and how many watts that you are putting into the cab. The actual rating has no affect whatsoever.[/quote]


Aye your right ferret, I was talking bollocks and have had a read about power, impedance etc. I'd certainly still like to hear about anyones experiences with these cabs though.

[bass_ferret]

Thanks for that - other chatters have been less receptive I am but a learner compared to some of the more knowledgable chatters. I have never used ampeg gear but I have heard the SVH410HLF sound great in the context of a loud rock band on the local pub circuit.

[Delberthot]

I've never been able to get a cut through sound with a semi-acoustic bass. they tend not to lend themselves to that kind of sound IMO.

But if it is the bass you want to keep and you like it then something in the Schroeder 1212L style would help you no end as they tend to have more pronounced mids.

Case in point is that i used to run a couple of Ashdown ABM115s and they gave me a very indistinct wooly sound that only creatures at the bottom of the sea could hear clearly. I replaced them with a single Schroeder 1212L and I'm as happy as Larry. Haven't even came close to the cab's or my GK 700RBII's limits and that is even when it is being used as my out front sound.

Not as much bottom end as the Ashdowns but perhaps that's a good thing in that it eliminates the wool from my sound

[bassmansky]

i had a svt 4x10he powered by a ashdown evo11 500w amp and thought it was quiet,this was confirmed when i got a abm 4x10 to go with the head.the abm was a lot louder but bearing in mind that cab was designed for that amp.anyway in my opinion the 4x10 he was a bit dissapointing on its own.if i had kept it i would have got the 2x10 to go with it as i dont think its a standalone cab.

[colinmk]

[quote name='bassmansky' post='315997' date='Oct 27 2008, 05:21 PM']i had a svt 4x10he powered by a ashdown evo11 500w amp and thought it was quiet,this was confirmed when i got a abm 4x10 to go with the head.the abm was a lot louder but bearing in mind that cab was designed for that amp.anyway in my opinion the 4x10 he was a bit dissapointing on its own.if i had kept it i would have got the 2x10 to go with it as i dont think its a standalone cab.[/quote]


Was that the old american made HE or one of the new ones do you know?

[colinmk]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='315972' date='Oct 27 2008, 04:40 PM']I've never been able to get a cut through sound with a semi-acoustic bass. they tend not to lend themselves to that kind of sound IMO.

But if it is the bass you want to keep and you like it then something in the Schroeder 1212L style would help you no end as they tend to have more pronounced mids.

Case in point is that i used to run a couple of Ashdown ABM115s and they gave me a very indistinct wooly sound that only creatures at the bottom of the sea could hear clearly. I replaced them with a single Schroeder 1212L and I'm as happy as Larry. Haven't even came close to the cab's or my GK 700RBII's limits and that is even when it is being used as my out front sound.

Not as much bottom end as the Ashdowns but perhaps that's a good thing in that it eliminates the wool from my sound[/quote]

Yeah that's maybe why I like the sound of ampegs so much. The 810 is the only cab I've heard my bass really shine through but it is just far too big to be conisdered. The schroeder sounds interesting but having tried ampeg I would ideally like to stick with them. I'm now thinking I will get the 410he, see what sort of level I can get from it and if it is not enough then decide what else to add to it.

[bassmansky]

[quote name='colinmk' post='316102' date='Oct 27 2008, 07:37 PM']Was that the old american made HE or one of the new ones do you know?[/quote]
it was an american one 500w with adjustable horn.

[colinmk]

I'm either going to buy the newer made 410HE with horn which is 500watts or I can get an older (1995) 410HE which is rated at 200watts on ebay. I'm driving it with an svp pro and a power amp that gives out 450 watts per side or 1300watts when bridged. Can anyone offer any advice as to which might be the better buy, is the old HE better built and would it be worth getting ahead of the higher rated new HE?
Thanks.

[alexclaber]

Regardless of the era those sealed 4x10" cabs can't handle much power in the lows, little more than 100W. If you fancy thinking outside the Ampeg box then that rack rig would sound absolutely delightful and incredibly loud and fat driving The Big One by barefacedBass!

Alex

[alexclaber]

Just to expand on that, you've probably noticed that the Ampeg 8x10" is the most popular cab on the planet but strangely the 410HE (which is a half-size version) isn't very popular at all. The reason is that because the cabs aren't ported all the low frequency output comes from the speaker (whilst with a ported cab the port shares about half the load) so to get the same low frequency output as a ported cab the sealed cab's speakers have to move about 50% more. That extra excursion increases the distortion in the sound, but as this is low frequency distortion you don't hear it as such, it just comes across as increased mud and boom. Also the off-axis response of 4x10" cabs is quite poor, so unless you're only 3' tall you don't hear most of the midrange and highs very well. The big Ampeg 8x10" solves these problems by giving you twice as many speakers to move air (thus reducing excursion related mud and boom) and by raising some of the speakers to nearer ear level so you can hear the mids and highs better.

My rather magic design gets around these problems by a totally different approach - a very high excursion woofer deals with providing big bottom with low distortion whilst a very high output midrange speaker deals with all the midrange punch and treble clarity and provides good off-axis response. Only downside of this is the cost and complexity - if Ampeg made a cab like this I guarantee it would cost well over £1000.

(And stepping off the soapbox...)

Alex

[johnnylager]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='319131' date='Oct 31 2008, 04:34 PM']Regardless of the era those sealed 4x10" cabs can't handle much power in the lows, little more than 100W. If you fancy thinking outside the Ampeg box then that rack rig would sound absolutely delightful and incredibly loud and fat driving The Big One by barefacedBass!

Alex[/quote]
This little fella got some quite +ve feedback from the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28436&hl=match"]SE bash[/url] too. For what it's worth, one will be sitting on the bottom of my new rig as soon as me lotto comes in. Stunning cabs, just be careful you don't put it through the ceiling when you lift it up.

Edited October 31, 2008 by johnnylager

[Adee]

I had a 410HLF for . . . 10 mins it was effin' horrible to lug around and its not a one man lift !
Sounds good but there is better to be had that sound as good and easier to move.