playing on wooden stages. how to get the best tone.

[dave_bass5 1,941]

Just remembered i took some shots of the stages at two of the gigs.

This is the smallest but worst of the three. We had to set our gear up on the riser so it was out of the way when the performers came on stage.


And this was the biggest but the best sound i had.

[bass_ferret 0]

1mm - lightweight! I use the 2mm Dunlop ones for full bottom and lighter ones for more click. If I want a really agressive sound I use my stainless steel pick of doom!

Are you coming to the bash at Guildford?

[bass_ferret 0]

That top pic is not a stage - its a drum riser! It also looks pretty lightweight so not surprised you had problems. Without the drummer sitting on it it would have vibrated out of the building.

[dave_bass5 1,941]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='29836' date='Jul 10 2007, 04:20 PM']That top pic is not a stage - its a drum riser! It also looks pretty lightweight so not surprised you had problems. Without the drummer sitting on it it would have vibrated out of the building.[/quote]

Yes it is. what you see is a drum riser on a stage. i just didnt get the front of the stage in shot.
And yes, it was quite flimsy.
I agree with you about why i had problems, this is why im asking about how to combat these sort of situations.

[dave_bass5 1,941]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='29834' date='Jul 10 2007, 04:17 PM']1mm - lightweight! I use the 2mm Dunlop ones for full bottom and lighter ones for more click. If I want a really agressive sound I use my stainless steel pick of doom!

Are you coming to the bash at Guildford?[/quote]

I have never used a thicker pick than 1.2mm but i guess it cant hurt to give it a go.
ill order some Claytons in 1.9mm and see how i get on. I dont like the click sound too much so maybe these will work ok for me.
Cheers.

No, i wont be at the Bash, im gigging :-)

Edited July 10, 2007 by dave_bass5

[bass_ferret 0]

Just had a quick scan - Gramma Pad = £50 + vat.

[alexclaber 13]

Or a single strip of PlatFoam for a tenner plus VAT:

[url="http://www.studiospares.com/pd_461330_AURXPLATFOAM%20x1%20PIECE.htm"]http://www.studiospares.com/pd_461330_AURX...0x1%20PIECE.htm[/url]

Fortunately for Auralex bassists don't seem to have caught on to the fact that the difference between a PlatFoam and GRAMMA floated cab is essentially bugger all and that PlatFoam is a fraction of the price and, more importantly to most bassists it would appear, the weight!

Alex

[rodl2005 0]

I know a simple way to get a puncy, bassy & clear sound out there. Get an ALL VALVE AMP ;-)
IME it makes ALL the difference to out front sound- our soun d guy couldn't believe it when I went from using an SVT3PRO to a Fender Bassman 300PRO- said" WOW it's just SO much clearer & punchier& SOLID!!!" He was talking with AND without FOH reinforcement! - Just my 2c.

[dave_bass5 1,941]

thanks guys

ferret, thanks for finding out the price. Its not too expensive but i might give the Auralex a go first.

Alex. thanks for that link. so would i get one piece and cut it up in to strips and lay them under the cab with gaps between or do i need to have enough under the cab to form a platform and use a piece of wood to cover it with? Sorry, not really looked in to this before.

rod, if i could get a valve head in my gig bag i would.

Edited July 11, 2007 by dave_bass5

[niceguyhomer 1]

Dave - you can borrow my car mats for free if you like

[dave_bass5 1,941]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='30148' date='Jul 11 2007, 09:19 AM']Dave - you can borrow my car mats for free if you like [/quote]

What colour are they ;-)

Actually i just remembered my drummer has a spare rubber backed mat he doesn't use. I might ask him to cut a bit off for me and try that.

I was also thinking of taking the feet off my UL115 and trying them on the UL212 but not sure about that after the one gig i did with the UL115 with the feet on it.

[lowhand_mike 1]

dave, have you tried the picks that have a rounded edge rather than the sharp edged ones (that do eventually round off) the ones i used to use were pretty thick, probably about 1.9 or something and they had a nice rounded edge so less toppy, sorry can't remember the make but they were tortoise shell and pretty big though i don't use the pick no more.

the best sound i ever had was doing a gig in a larger back garden, we were set up on the patio, so on solid thick paving slabs, the sound was sooo tight and clear though it did dissappear up the garden pretty quick, maybe try taking some heavy slabs with you and put the cab on them

[dave_bass5 1,941]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='30215' date='Jul 11 2007, 11:23 AM']dave, have you tried the picks that have a rounded edge rather than the sharp edged ones (that do eventually round off) the ones i used to use were pretty thick, probably about 1.9 or something and they had a nice rounded edge so less toppy, sorry can't remember the make but they were tortoise shell and pretty big though i don't use the pick no more.

the best sound i ever had was doing a gig in a larger back garden, we were set up on the patio, so on solid thick paving slabs, the sound was sooo tight and clear though it did dissappear up the garden pretty quick, maybe try taking some heavy slabs with you and put the cab on them [/quote]


Mike.
I have tried all sorts of picks over the years although like i said ive not gone over 1.2mm before. The Claytons will be here tomorrow so ill give them a try.
Funny thing though is that i always thought it was the lighter picks that gave a softer attack (as well as a click).
Guess there is no substitute for learning to play properly ;-).
I always practice at home with my fingers only, too lazy to go and get a pick out of the other room most of the time but because i sit down at the PC to do this I find it harder to do it standing up at a gig. And yes, i could stand up at home but would feel rather silly as my PC is in the living room.

[lowhand_mike 1]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='30217' date='Jul 11 2007, 11:36 AM']Mike.
I have tried all sorts of picks over the years although like i said ive not gone over 1.2mm before. The Claytons will be here tomorrow so ill give them a try.
Funny thing though is that i always thought it was the lighter picks that gave a softer attack (as well as a click).
Guess there is no substitute for learning to play properly ;-).
I always practice at home with my fingers only, too lazy to go and get a pick out of the other room most of the time but because i sit down at the PC to do this I find it harder to do it standing up at a gig. And yes, i could stand up at home but would feel rather silly as my PC is in the living room.[/quote]


hmm i always found the lighter picks to give a scratchy flicky sound, the thicker ones more of a pluck

found this, i think these were the ones but the heavy or very heavy

[JPJ 88]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='29676' date='Jul 10 2007, 12:00 PM']I know I keep banging on about this but it really matters. If you place your bass cab the wrong distance from the walls or floor you will make getting a good tone impossible. Here's a great excerpt about this:

"Boundary Cancellation throws another wrench into the cogs. If the bass cab is not in a corner, there will be a notch in the frequency response that is related to the distance from the cab to the wall:

2 feet will notch at ~140Hz
2.5' at ~112Hz
3' at ~95 Hz
3.5' at ~ 80Hz
4' at ~ 70Hz
5' at ~ 57Hz
6' at ~ 47Hz
7' at ~ 40Hz
8' at ~ 35Hz

So, no matter where you put the bass cab, try to place it within 2 feet of a room boundary (wall, floor, ceiling), or at least 8 feet from a boundary."

This isn't just techy geeky theory - it matters in the real world!

Alex[/quote]

Alex,

Sorry for the merciless edit but your quote above is well worth saving for posterity. In fact, a copy has been added to my gig bag along with a tape measure ready for the next time I encounter dead stage syndrome.

Thanks mate!

[JPJ 88]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='29310' date='Jul 9 2007, 08:20 PM']Occasionally you get the room from hell that no amount of positioning is gonna help and in those circumstances I go back to square one with EQ (everything flat with filters etc off) regardless of my 'normal' settings.[/quote]

Room from hell eh, I guess you've played Sleepers @ Boldon then?

[warwickhunt 259]

[quote name='JPJ' post='30275' date='Jul 11 2007, 01:46 PM']Room from hell eh, I guess you've played Sleepers @ Boldon then? [/quote]

TRUE... absobloodylutely, I believe I had that room in mind when I typed that. First time we played there, I glanced around and thought the sound would be fine. How wrong could I be!

Not the biggest room in the world by far but I hadn't realised that it was essentially a carpeted conservatory. The singer swore never to go back as the sound was abysmal.

[JPJ 88]

Apparently, the landlord had a problem with a resident on the other side of the metro tracks complaining about the noise! As a result, the 'conservatory' is triple glazed with four layers of insulation in the roof under those acoustic tiles. What with those heavy curtains and the carpet, its about the dead'est room I have ever played in, absolutely no natural reverb at all!

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='30333' date='Jul 11 2007, 04:19 PM']TRUE... absobloodylutely, I believe I had that room in mind when I typed that. First time we played there, I glanced around and thought the sound would be fine. How wrong could I be!

Not the biggest room in the world by far but I hadn't realised that it was essentially a carpeted conservatory. The singer swore never to go back as the sound was abysmal.[/quote]

[steve-soar 1]

Anybody played the Wheatsheaf in Stoke or T.J.s in Newport the stages are about 6ft high and made of cardboard. Sounds like playing inside a duvet but out front the sound great!

[alexclaber 13]

[quote name='JPJ' post='30802' date='Jul 12 2007, 04:50 PM']...its about the dead'est room I have ever played in, absolutely no natural reverb at all![/quote]

How weird, I'd assumed the opposite! Never thought a venue could be too dead (though the audience can certainly be)...

Alex

[JPJ 88]

Alex,

I can only describe the room as being dead because when you fire off a note, it travels across the room but the decay is almost audible. Even the cymbals sound muffled and the kick drum doesn't 'kick' if you know what I mean. You have to work really hard to get a mix you'll be even 80% happy with. The room is glass on three sides, with a low'ish ceiling and a carpetted floor. The windows have really heavy tapestry style drapes/curtains. Lots of damping that even beats the mackie drive rack pink noise generator automatic setup thing, which after about five mins of trying, gives up with an error code which doesn't even feature in the manual!

[alexclaber 13]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='30137' date='Jul 11 2007, 08:51 AM']Alex. thanks for that link. so would i get one piece and cut it up in to strips and lay them under the cab with gaps between or do i need to have enough under the cab to form a platform and use a piece of wood to cover it with? Sorry, not really looked in to this before.[/quote]

You get one strip and cut it into two pieces with length equal to the width of your cab. Then when setting up your rig you line one strip up underneath the back edge of your cab and one under the front edge. If you're standing really close to your cab just use one strip at the front, either way up, to give you a degree of tilt - just having an edge of the cab touching the ground still gives good mechanical isolation. So much lighter, cheaper and more versatile than a GRAMMA!

Alex

[elliotminor 0]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='34054' date='Jul 19 2007, 11:19 AM']You get one strip and cut it into two pieces with length equal to the width of your cab. Then when setting up your rig you line one strip up underneath the back edge of your cab and one under the front edge. If you're standing really close to your cab just use one strip at the front, either way up, to give you a degree of tilt - just having an edge of the cab touching the ground still gives good mechanical isolation. So much lighter, cheaper and more versatile than a GRAMMA!

Alex[/quote]

great thread.

I use a DB750 + 2xGS410's. Did one gig with my amp right against the back wall, on a solid stage. -sounded amazing. didnt need the amp particularly loud as there was plenty of definition, clear lows etc

Did a gig the next day... the amp was about 4-5 feet away from the wall, on a hollow stage and it just sounded muddy.

On the second occasion the support band (who were using my amp) had it so loud in order to hear it on stage, that the foh sound was terrible. The same, presumably, applied to us.

[dave_bass5 1,941]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='34054' date='Jul 19 2007, 11:19 AM']You get one strip and cut it into two pieces with length equal to the width of your cab. Then when setting up your rig you line one strip up underneath the back edge of your cab and one under the front edge. If you're standing really close to your cab just use one strip at the front, either way up, to give you a degree of tilt - just having an edge of the cab touching the ground still gives good mechanical isolation. So much lighter, cheaper and more versatile than a GRAMMA!

Alex[/quote]

Ah right, thanks again Alex.
ill get a strip ordered soon.
We have a gig in a marquee tomorrow, looking forward to that ;-). And its in Cumbria and we are based in London so we have got a outboard motor on the back of the car for the northern leg of the trip LOL.

[nedsbeds 0]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='30813' date='Jul 12 2007, 05:07 PM']Anybody played the Wheatsheaf in Stoke or T.J.s in Newport the stages are about 6ft high and made of cardboard. Sounds like playing inside a duvet but out front the sound great![/quote]


Played tj's some time last year.
I couldn't really hear much of what I was playing, but I could feel it. Spent some of the gig with one foot on the odd rail thing leaning out over the front of the stage which helped a little, but not much.