PA - how much power is enough?

[PaulWarning]

depends how much messing a bout you want to do, we play pubs mainly just use a Yamaha mixer amp http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-EMX512SC-Powered-Mixer/6JJ?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=8479d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=124394595679&gclid=CLWym5i4n8kCFYU_Gwod7hsPOQ
and a couple of 15" Wharfdale Titans for vocals plus backline and that's it, the last gig we did some folk said we were too loud, takes us about an hour to set up then we're good to go, that includes a few lights.
I've seen bands turn up with loads of gear, mic everything up, takes them ages, total overkill IMO

[bonzodog]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1448037786' post='2912607']
depends how much messing a bout you want to do, we play pubs mainly just use a Yamaha mixer amp http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-EMX512SC-Powered-Mixer/6JJ?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=8479d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=124394595679&gclid=CLWym5i4n8kCFYU_Gwod7hsPOQ
and a couple of 15" Wharfdale Titans for vocals plus backline and that's it, the last gig we did some folk said we were too loud, takes us about an hour to set up then we're good to go, that includes a few lights.
I've seen bands turn up with loads of gear, mic everything up, takes them ages, total overkill IMO
[/quote]

Your set up is similar to us. What monitors do you use if any? Interested to know as we want to buy some and have tried a few without much success

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1448041057' post='2912659']
Your set up is similar to us. What monitors do you use if any? Interested to know as we want to buy some and have tried a few without much success
[/quote]We use a couple of cheap no name wedges we bought from a local company, we daisy chain one channel for the main speakers and use the other channel for the monitor, what problems are you getting?

[bonzodog]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1448044136' post='2912722']
We use a couple of cheap no name wedges we bought from a local company, we daisy chain one channel for the main speakers and use the other channel for the monitor, what problems are you getting?
[/quote]

We used an old small pa as monitors but wasnt loud enough then tried an alto active speaker between us but then had problems with feedback. We need to set it all really and play around with it as its always a rush at gigs

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1448044879' post='2912731']
We used an old small pa as monitors but wasnt loud enough then tried an alto active speaker between us but then had problems with feedback. We need to set it all really and play around with it as its always a rush at gigs
[/quote]yeah it's always tricky trying to sort out feedback when there's already people in the room, I've been trying to get our singer to use in ear monitors but the tight arse won't buy any, one thing I've found could work is having the main speakers behind you (then you don't need monitors), I know it goes against everything anybody says but our singer's got a cordless mic and regularly goes out into the crowd (therefore he's in front of the main speakers) without any feedback problems.

[Truckstop]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1448008917' post='2912177']

Do you have any back line with these, and if not how do you handle monitoring? Also Yamaha state that the frequency response is 49Hz-20kHz @ -10dB and this handles the bass guitar fine?
[/quote]

Only thing that should go lower than 100hz is the bass drum so yeah it'll handle it fine. For a good mix you'd be looking to cut the bass guitar at about 100hz anyway.

My band have a weak backline. Guitarist uses a 15w 10" combo, I use a 100w 1x12 combo. We use our PA just to spread the sound and throw it to the back of the room. We don't actually go much louder than our backline does. We're not a loud band, we just want a nice balanced sound that's loud enough for pubs, private parties and clubs. Which is why we're happy with our SRM450's and single sub.

[grandad]

My experience with handling the PA for the band has led me to have 2. 1 for FOH & 1 for monitors. If either goes tits-up then we just use 1 for FOH and no monitors. They both feature effective feedback suppression and I've had no problems over several years.

I use a Yamaha EMX5016cf into EV SX300's and a Stagepas 600i. With Electronic drums I use a Roland KC150 with it's dedicated monitor channel. There is easily power to spare for pubs and WMC's. Bass is usually just backline but can be DI 'd. Both lead and rythmn guitars go into the mix from pedals.

I do have the EV SB122's sub's if the venue were bigger but usually don't bother with them. I tried the active EV SXA100+ which were very good but heavier.

Whether you choose active or passive the new class D amps, (as in the Stagepas), are so much lighter and sound very articulate to my ear.

I would say ease of use, portability and reliability led me to the above rig. So far, so good.

To answer the original question:

FOH is 1000W, 500 per channel, but that is peak. So divide by 2 = 250, again = 125W peak at 0dB, green, on the level meter with +6dB headroom up to the red LED.

Edited November 21, 2015 by grandad

[mingsta]

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1448008917' post='2912177']
Do you have any back line with these, and if not how do you handle monitoring? Also Yamaha state that the frequency response is 49Hz-20kHz @ -10dB and this handles the bass guitar fine?
[/quote]

With our old set up, we had a fairly weedy PA which we'd just run vocals and guitar through, while the bass and drums were amplified via their own backlines.

We don't use a backline anymore with the DXR15s. The guitarist goes straight in to the desk after his effects. Drummer has an electronic kit and headphones and also goes straight in to the desk. I use a Genz Shuttle 2x10 but only loud enough so I can hear a bit more bass above the monitors. We have a couple of monitors running the main mix from the desk.

We all run a bit of compression and I roll off a bit of bass and boost the mids a bit, as does the drummer. This is something we did as a matter of course anyway rather than because we're trying to get more volume out of the PA. We've not been close to pushing it in the past four gigs. Its all relative, I guess. We're not a quiet band, but we're not as loud as a loud rock band. Whats plenty for us may not be for others.

I've had no issues with the bass response on the DXR15s, but I'm generally basing that on what the sound guys and mates in the audience have said as I've not done much listening out front in the 4 gigs we've done since we got the PA.

[barkin]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1448037786' post='2912607']
depends how much messing a bout you want to do, we play pubs mainly just use a Yamaha mixer amp http://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Yamaha-EMX512SC-Powered-Mixer/6JJ?origin=product-ads&campaign=PLA+Shop+-+GENERIC&adgroup=GENERIC&medium=vertical_search&network=google&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=8479d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=124394595679&gclid=CLWym5i4n8kCFYU_Gwod7hsPOQ
and a couple of 15" Wharfdale Titans for vocals plus backline and that's it, the last gig we did some folk said we were too loud, takes us about an hour to set up then we're good to go, that includes a few lights.
I've seen bands turn up with loads of gear, mic everything up, takes them ages, total overkill IMO
[/quote]

We use the same powered mixer with a pair of Yamaha full range 15's on one channel for FOH, and 1 or 2 no name wedge monitors.
We always put a bit of guitar and bass through it (for spread rather than volume) and it's always been more than loud enough for any pub or hall we've played.

Used it this summer in a pub garden - bands in an open fronted marquee, audience in the garden. Usual set up, but with a bit of drums going through FOH (kick and single overhead mic) as well.
As well as us, there was a classic rock/blues band and a soul/funk outfit as well, so I got to hear it out front. Sounded damned good, and loud enough to get the odd complaint from neighbours.