ubassman Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Anyone use the AT for improving their playing and comfort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtroun Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I had a couple of lessons. I'd like to do more I have much less problems with pain these days probably because I spend much more time warming up. My first teacher, Simon Woolf, has had pretty extensive Alexander technique lessons and he looks incredibly relaxed playing. It is expensive though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Can be very useful for some people. Can also take some time to do properly, as after all, the technique is all about learning a different way of doing things we already do, in other words, changing habits. We all know how easy that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbobothy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I had a few lessons with a private teacher just regarding my playing, after I learned what I needed to help I stopped having lessons. Expensive, yes, but if they help overcome/help with injury then worth it I think. However with all things you have to put into practice what you learn, now that's the part I find hard lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) The Use of The Self by FM Alexander. ISBN 978-0-7528-4391-9 I'm up to page 70 at the moment Edited January 7, 2014 by essexbasscat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgoogle Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Something i've been thinking about for a while. I'd prefer to talk to an expert first and getting a few pointers before diving in. Can't see a downside though to something that helps you become more relaxed and potentially increase the length of your career. Any good books/video material to expand on the subject?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo1978 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Ubassman, I think it was you, posted a link to a kindle book on AT for the double bass which I've been reading. It seems a very well considered approach and has been a great introduction/prompt to release tension while playing. I have been a bit confused as the book seems to discourage using arm weight in terms of left hand technique, in favour of clamping the string against the finger board between the fingers and the thumb. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alexander-Technique-Approach-Double-Bass-ebook/dp/B004JKMSSE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1389133147&sr=8-1&keywords=Alexander+technique+for+double+bass Would be interested in any other resources out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) FWIW I dont agree with the way he describes his left hand theory either but I think that it just takes some interpretation What I think he is meaning is to not actively engage the muscles of the left arm and shoulder pulling on the bass like it is a giant lever. That I agree with because it locks everything and creates tension. Like all things AT its about playing with ease and not stressing the body and again like all things AT, everyone is different and has to find what is natural and right for them which will different to the next person. My view is that the left arm has to be fluid and it is a balance of using the natural weight of the arm anchored back through the shoulder but able to move with ease. The book is a good primer for the subject and good to get underway with some exploration of AT ideas. Its a fascinating area ! Edited January 8, 2014 by ubassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have had no training in it but am aware of its core messages and use it to inform my own approach to playing the instrument i.e. listening to the body, making the most of a stable centre, using muscles across the arms and hands as efficiently as possible etc. Having had problems in the past, I have found that I am managing to keep on top of the playing without any injuries or specific aches and pains. Still have friction based soreness in my right hand fingers and wish I could play without forgetting to breath properly and without gritting my teeth (am working on those) but, otherwise, it seems to be going well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I've not tried AT and perhaps I should, but if you'll forgive a slightly OT diversion I've learned a lot from Pilates over the last 18 months. Playing any bass, but especially DB, involves twisting things - left shoulder and left forearm in particular - in ways unplanned by Mother Nature. Many of the exercises I now do are designed to ease things before I play, and then to undo some of the damage afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah thomas Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I have had three terms worth of Alexander Technique lessons with Lynne Cartlidge (I kid you not) in Cardiff. I also went on a residential weekend, which was like being on holiday with a bunch of extremely pleasant lunatics. It has certainly improved my use of my body, not just in playing but in many areas. My son, who is a professional music teacher, found it helped him when he had to learn to play the banjo and the mandolin in a short space of time. The downside is that it is expensive. I'm taking a break from it because of the expense, but will probably return to it in the future. In the lesson it's easy to hear and feel the difference, but replicating that at home is a different matter. It's all about being relaxed and having some understanding of how our bodies are actually put together - for instance, that muscles contract when they are in use. In summary, it's like going on a fantastic adventure without leaving the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo1978 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 A couple of posts here mention warming up - what do you normally do before playing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alistair Sutcliffe Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389199468' post='2331259'] A couple of posts here mention warming up - what do you normally do before playing? [/quote] Four pints of Guinness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Cant say that I am expert in any shape or form on the subject of AT but what I do know has helped immensely with my understanding of how to play naturally, fluidly and adapt the position of my instrument without aching. Occasionally I get a stiff shoulder - but I am still learning and I can usually identify what I am doing that causes the issue ( usually having too high an elbow). We all come in so many different shapes and sizes, arm length, heights etc that there is no absolute 'one size fits all ' position even with a standard instrument and AT is about finding the most comfortable and efficient 'you' and then getting the instrument into the optimum place rather than the player twisting and bending awkwardly so as to fit the instrument. All good stuff and Im sure no co-incidence that if you enrol on a DB course at the RCM, each of the three years there is an AT module to complete! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgoogle Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Been googling teachers in dublin. €30 for a lesson seems pretty good. Ill have to have a go and report back. [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389199468' post='2331259'] A couple of posts here mention warming up - what do you normally do before playing? [/quote] Stretches before anything else, loosen up the shoulders, arms and lower back. Then long bows, really slowly - gets the instrument working and your right hand. Bring in the left hand with slow chromatics with no vibrato what so ever. E over two octaves and G over 3. Then repeat but with vibrato. Then again but slurred to make sure i have the right amount of tension on the bow. Scales and arpeggio's slurred and un-slurred. Gets both hands moving around and your body bending with the instrument. Usually takes about an hour but very worthwhile if your doing another 3-4 hours afterwards. Oh and i also practice starting notes. Anyone else got there warmup routine?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mottlefeeder Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 My experience of AT goes back several years, as I recovered from a back injury. The initial results were amazing, but then seemd to tail off. When I started asking about the next milestones we were aiming for, the answers gave me the distinct impression that I was part-way through a standard course, and I was going to pay for all of it whether I needed it or not. I stopped shortly after. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Pretty much the same 10- 15 minute warm up before rehearsals ( usually in the din of the other musicians doing their thing in the background). Tuning up - I wake up the right arm and hand with long legato bows and accurate bow angles + to warm up the hairs on the bow ( open strings and Harmonics) Pentatonic bluesy chromatic scale crossing strings pizz only starting slow in low position and getting faster rising up the fingerboard to get the blood flowing in both hands Usually a couple of 2 octave scales rising up the string or an excerpt that rises (working shifts and accuracy), usually spiced up with different combinations of slur, staccato, speed to waken up the balance point of the bow Couple of arpeggios ( favourite line at the moment from Schubert 8 really wakes up the shifts) and finally I might finish with a couple long jumps up to the D stop, or to play a game of 4's where you have to play say a Bb in 4 different places on the bass and be accurate. ...works for me. Dont yet do anything with warming up the shoulders or any major muscle groups - probably need to look into that. Always something to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbo1978 Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Wow, apart from the Guinness one I don't really warm up at all. Does it make a big difference? Great advice guys. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatgoogle Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Playing Better is one point i can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1389205455' post='2331380'] Pentatonic bluesy chromatic scale crossing strings pizz only starting slow in low position and getting faster rising up the fingerboard to get the blood flowing in both hands [/quote] Pentatonic?! Bluesy?! Chromatic?! Stop right there, I'm in jazz heaven Any chance you could share? [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389212344' post='2331523'] Wow, apart from the Guinness one I don't really warm up at all. Does it make a big difference? [/quote] A [i]huge[/i] difference. Even if you're not doing a long stretch of practise, just 20-30 mins at the start can help enormously. I find that the other things I'm practising become a bit easier and my technique is better, which makes that practise worth more and makes playing with solid technique become automatic that much quicker. Things that were hard become doable with effort and then doable without effort faster this way. I work full time so often will only have 1.5-2 hrs a day to practise (and sometimes not at all....), but will always do something to get pot bubbling first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389212344' post='2331523'] Wow, apart from the Guinness one I don't really warm up at all. Does it make a big difference? Great advice guys. Tim [/quote] Practicing a bit of 'quality' before making music works for me. It sets the scene. The warm up that I do in orchestra is kind of a general warm up all engine parts but when I am at home I still do a shortened version for maybe 5 minutes or so . It really helps get the bass consistently in the right position and angle every time plus getting the parts warmed up. From time to time I have a 7 day technical workout where I have a file separated out into 7 days. Each day I will have about maybe 6 different scales, arpeggios, and technical exercises. It takes and hour to get through everything but by the end of the 7 days I always feel like I am a meaner leaner machine ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubassman Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Hector' timestamp='1389221823' post='2331684'] Pentatonic?! Bluesy?! Chromatic?! Stop right there, I'm in jazz heaven Any chance you could share? [/quote] ...no probs Hector! EDIT - pdf sent via email Enjoy! Edited January 9, 2014 by ubassman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 [quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1389221972' post='2331694'] ...no probs Hector! EDIT - pdf sent via email Enjoy! [/quote] Ta very much. I'm a big fan of this bebop dominant 7 + tensions workout. I do it sloooooowly and precisely in whatever the key du jour is. Really like the fact that there are multiple viable fingering options, I tend to do a few different ones. http://jazztrumpetlicks.com/2009/04/this-bebop-scale-exercise-will-help-develop-your-improv-jazz-skills/ There's also some fun little perpetual motion bebop lines in the David Baker book series that go through ii-Vs in all keys moving in tones. Bit more of an involved workout! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So fed up with the drummer getting his snare right, saxes taking ages to figure out what's the 'right' reed, brass [i]literally[/i] warming up, I don't warm up at all - apart from tuning up and getting a decent eq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 [quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1389212344' post='2331523'] Wow, apart from the Guinness one I don't really warm up at all. Does it make a big difference? [/quote] It certainly makes a big difference if, like me, you're ... ahem ... no longer as young as you once were, and especially if you have any sort of pre-existing condition. I've suffered occasional lumbar collapses in recent years (not slipped disks or similar, just my lower back deciding to act as if there's a trapped nerve and going into spasm) so I always do 20 minutes of stretches before I even touch the DB if I'm rehearsing or gigging. The stretches have surprisingly little [i][b]obvious [/b][/i]connection with my lumbar region. They tend to be mainly on the shoulder joints, the forearms, and the fingers. The connection with my lumbar region is still there of course ... it's just not obvious unless you do yoga or Pilates or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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