mike257 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Alright folks, got a question and hoping some of the pros I know are floating around here can help me out. Been asked to quote for a week abroad depping but only half the days would be gigging - having jumped from semi-pro to full time music around a year ago, all my work so far has been within the UK so I'm not sure what the usual way of doing things is for these type of bookings. I don't want to price myself out of the running or sell myself short so was hoping some of you who are regularly off getting your passports stamped could give me a clue as to how it usually works with regards to charging for your time when you aren't actually playing. General tips and advice on the bold new world of being an international jet-setting bass chancer are also welcomed! Cheers, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) when i'm touring it depends, but you MUST negotiate and agree before hand (sounds obvious but it's fundamental to a good working relationship!) I charge full rate for travel days/offdays, plus P'D's ("per diem", a smaller amount of money paid into your hand each day for incidentals) as I am unavailable to work else where. if it's a favour for a friend 1/2 pay on days off or travel days for a long stretch is quite common for some companies too. Edited October 16, 2013 by roonjuice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) If it were somewhere nice that I was happy to entertain myself in for a bit then I would just ask for expenses on the days that you weren't working---accomodation, food, incidentals. It would be like a working holiday. If its somewhere that you'd really rather not be or you can't afford to have days where you aren't being paid then you'll want to be charging that plus a bit more. Edited October 16, 2013 by uncle psychosis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 From the little bit of info I've had its basically function type work at a single location but I'll have 3-4 days off through the week. Flights and board are covered. I feel like I should be charging something for the off days because as said above its not like I can pop off and gig elsewhere! I don't know if charging full rate us the done thing so don't want to come across as hard-faced if its poor etiquette! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 half pay for days off, as in truth they are not days off, because 'days off' would involve you getting into your own bed at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 A standard, pro rate, for a musician or Sound engineer/lighting tech, on tour is £350 per day plus £50 per per diem (for expenses). That includes rest days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1381936280' post='2245737'] A standard, pro rate, for a musician or Sound engineer/lighting tech, on tour is £350 per day plus £50 per per diem (for expenses). That includes rest days. [/quote] yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben604 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1381936280' post='2245737'] A standard, pro rate, for a musician or Sound engineer/lighting tech, on tour is £350 per day plus £50 per per diem (for expenses). That includes rest days. [/quote] I'm in the wrong bloody job! Edited October 16, 2013 by ben604 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 u still get far too many people wanting you to tour manage, drive, mix, crew and sort merch for £50 per day or something farcical.... er...... no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1381937482' post='2245757'] u still get far too many people wanting you to tour manage, drive, mix, crew and sort merch for £50 per day or something farcical.... er...... no. [/quote] Tell me about it. I'm a splitter van owner/driver and although I'm more at the budget end of that market (can't afford a fancy Sprinter right now!) I still get bands turning their nose up at quotes and prices when I discuss adding services on top of the basic 'man and van' rate. Everybody wants everything for nowt these days, its cutthroat. Thanks for all the feedback and advice so far guys, its definitely giving me a clearer picture. Whilst I've played, TM'd and mixed my way around the UK, this will be the first time I've booked a gig that needs a passport so its new territory and the help is gratefully received! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 just say no;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='roonjuice' timestamp='1381938109' post='2245771'] just say no;) [/quote] I do! As soon as you stop sticking to your guns people think they can get away with it all the time. I'll occasionally mix a band for free but I've only done that for long term regular clients who are in the van all the time. Its hard sometimes, can seem like you've got a choice of working cheap or not at all but you've got to place some value on your time and skills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybassplayer Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1381936280' post='2245737'] A standard, pro rate, for a musician or Sound engineer/lighting tech, on tour is £350 per day plus £50 per per diem (for expenses). That includes rest days. [/quote] Sounds nice to me. Wish I was a better player lol Edited October 16, 2013 by tonybassplayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1381939612' post='2245795'] I do! As soon as you stop sticking to your guns people think they can get away with it all the time. I'll occasionally mix a band for free but I've only done that for long term regular clients who are in the van all the time. Its hard sometimes, can seem like you've got a choice of working cheap or not at all but you've got to place some value on your time and skills! [/quote] i hear ya brother When cutting my teeth i would do any gig, just to be out there. now my teeth are cut, set and veneered, I politely and graciously turn it down, usually offering a competent "young lad" (oo err!) as a compromise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1381935385' post='2245726'] From the little bit of info I've had its basically function type work at a single location but I'll have 3-4 days off through the week. Flights and board are covered. I feel like I should be charging something for the off days because as said above its not like I can pop off and gig elsewhere! I don't know if charging full rate us the done thing so don't want to come across as hard-faced if its poor etiquette! [/quote] You are going to have to play it by ear and they should be telling you what the gig pays...but since they aren't, it suggests to me that someone might be wating to pay less than the contract rate and that will get you the gig before anything else...?? Not a good start, IMO. I'd give them a weekly fee.... as they should have given you. You must have some sort of idea... or these guys sound too chancey for my tastes..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1381941471' post='2245830'] You are going to have to play it by ear and they should be telling you what the gig pays...but since they aren't, it suggests to me that someone might be wating to pay less than the contract rate and that will get you the gig before anything else...?? Not a good start, IMO. I'd give them a weekly fee.... as they should have given you. You must have some sort of idea... or these guys sound too chancey for my tastes..?? [/quote] Well, I was working off the basis of typical function fees for the gigs themselves - it's the additional time involved that I'm not sure what to charge for. Apparently travel, accommodation and food are all covered so there's minimal expenses for me day to day once I get there. It does seem an unusual way of doing business, that's for sure. If the booking has been made (even tentatively) there must have been a fee or a budget discussed. There'll be six musos so I'd just expect a straight split for the band after whatever agents cut is involved but there's obviously a different approach being taken here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 i would make a list of questions, in the form of a friendly email, asking exactly what is payed for and provided, including your fee. This gives u a record and also allows u to make an informed decision to take the work or not. There is usually room for negotiation too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 And that is what concerns me here. Why the secrecy..? What do you know about the band..? if next to nothing, then they aren't exactly selling it I must say I would expect better negotiations than this from their side. In the event that there is nothing much to go on... then ask what the split is for the band..and then ask the band what this is as the agent might be creaming more his way .. OFF YOU..!!! I am getting the impression that they want to pay a cheap rate, when the band really should be making sure you are the guy they want and sellit as much to you and you want to sell to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonjuice Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 does sound a bit shady...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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