speaker dies on me under 12 months, any rights?

[skidder652003]

Hi Guys
wonder if anybody might be able to offer me some advice?
I bought an Eminence Kappalite 15" speaker from a well known and respected (on here) supplier.
2 weeks ago it stopped working. Luckily (or so i thought!) for me it still had a month to go on a 12 month warranty. I contacted the supplier

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]hello[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3] i received an eminaence kappalite 3015 450W 15" Driver last year. The[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]order date was 27/09/2012. This speaker has stopped working. I have[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]tested it in several working cabs but it is still broken. Am I able to[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]have this item replaced under any 12 month warranty/ I t has been used[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]perhaps 12 times in the last year, always at 8 ohm loads.[/size][/font][/color]

So they asked me to send it back which i did and this was the reply after emailing them yesterday as i hadn't heard anything

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Hello Mr Marks,[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]We have recieved the returned speaker and it has been assessed under warranty by our speaker department. Unfortunately the speaker failure appears to be due to over excursion of the cone. This has resulted in creases to the front of the cone anddamage to the rear of the voicecoil consistent with it hitting the stop at the back of the magnet gap. This is usually caused by Excess sub-bass being fed to the speaker. The usual method to prevent this is to have a hi-pass filter which prevents the harmful very low frequencies from reaching the driver.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]Unfortunately this damage is not covered under the warranty. I can pass the driver to our reconing department to see if it is possible to repair the driver and put together a quote for the cost of this if you would like.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif]Ok, so my problem is this. This speaker has only ever been used with an SWR 700 working Pro, [/font][/color]

[url="http://www.swramps.com/en-GB/products/search.php/?partno=4450000010"]http://www.swramps.com/en-GB/products/search.php/?partno=4450000010[/url]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif]and to the best of my knowledge this is not a sub bass, although to be fair it does have a bass boost![/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif]I have never driven it beyond 65% either with the one speaker at 8 ohms or 2 8ohm speakers ie at 4 ohms. So do i have a leg to stand on here guys? Or do i have to bite the bullet and pay for a recone, if thats even possible or get a new one (£180 quid..ouch!). Are my statutory rights affected etc?...[/font][/color]



[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif]Any advice really appreciated, pretty skint at the moment like most people.[/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=arial, sans-serif]Thanks.[/font][/color]

[Annoying Twit]

[sup]First, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. [/sup]

Under the sale of goods act, goods sold have to be of reasonable quality and should last for a reasonable amount of time. Therefore, even if you were outside your one year warranty, you would still be covered for a speaker as such an item would be expected to last much more than a year.

However, if the damage is due to mis-use, then you would be at fault, and therefore the seller would not have to fix the item or give you compensation. Clearly they have had the goods inspected by their own expert, and are saying that it's your fault. However, you don't have to accept their expert's opinion.

As I understand it, goods have to be fit for purpose. So, if you've used the speaker in a reasonable way, and it broke, then the conclusion is that the speaker wasn't sufficiently strong enough in the first place. Either due to design or a manufacturing fault. So, if the speaker has blown in use, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily your fault.

If you wish to fight this, then one possible strategy (I am not the be-all and end-all of consumer rights) is to have the item inspected by an independent expert. If the independent expert concludes that the failure is due to an inherent fault in the item, and not mis-use, then you can then go back to the seller and present them with this information. If the seller then still refuses to play ball, then you would have the option of suing them through the small claims court. If you did that, you'd be best off speaking to people who have experience of this. You could google "The Consumer Action Group" forums, but note that sometimes they can be a bit gung-ho.

I hope this helps. Good luck.

Edit: Some things I thought of. If an item is less than six months old, then it's up to the seller to prove that the item was faulty when sold. Faulty here doesn't mean not working, but perhaps insufficiently robust, and hence 'not fit for purpose'. If it's over six months, then it's your responsibility to prove this, typically through an independent engineer's report.

You should check to see if there is a known problem with this speaker. If you find that a number of other people have had the same fault, then this builds your case that it's a design fault. You might also want to check whether your amp is or isn't known for blowing speakers for the reasons that the seller's engineer describes.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Annoying Twit

[gjones]

Maybe they think you are using it in a PA rather than in a bass cab. What frequency is 'Sub Bass' ? Tell them you're not a DJ or in a reggae band. Also, the damage they describe where the cone was hitting the frame, would result in the classic farting sound. Did you hear it make any nasty noises before it gave up the ghost?

[flyfisher]

I agree with AT above.

Annoying though such things undoubtedly are, it's important to keep a sense of perspective. How much money are we talking about to replace or re-cone the speaker? Is that really going to be worth the additional expense of getting your own expert to examine the speaker, which I reckon would be essential if you're going to fight your corner, and then possibly pursue a county court action? Even then there would be no guarantee of success.

At this stage, I think I would talk to them about their assessment of the damage, explain exactly how you have been using it (amp, settings, instrument etc) and ask if that set up could reasonably be expected to cause such damage. Their answer would be useful information in terms of deciding whether to pursue a repair or a like-for-like replacement, because what's the point if the same thing is likely to happen again? If it really is the use that has caused the problem then you'd want to understand how to avoid it again anyway, so it'll be a useful discussion anyway.

[skidder652003]

Thanks guys,
Im going to question them about their assumptions regarding using it as sub etc and see what happens. Many thanks for your input. I'll let you know what happens.

[skidder652003]

By the way, there was absoloutely no farting sound before it died, it just stopped working, full stop.

[stingrayPete1977]

Afaik we can't actually hear the lows at the frequency where the damage may have occurred? What frequency does the amp shelve at? My genz amps shelve around 80hz or lower to 37hz with the lf boost engaged, anything lower than that is just sucking power and quietly ruining the speakers.

[dmccombe7]

I would have thought you would hear some kind of distortion of sound if you had been using sub-bass frequencies even by mistake.
Its not normal for a speaker to just suddenly stop working under normal operation within its own spec.
They may question the fact that your amp fires out higher wattage than speaker rated and therefore if speaker was being sub-basses in any way then you could see a failure but again I would have thought you would have heard something.

Eminence speakers are meant to be pretty good quality so its a surprise one would fail but not impossible.

Agree with sharing your amp frequency shelving provided it is within the spec of the speaker otherwise you could be shooting yourself in the foot.
Also agree that if your debate with them isn't resolved amicably then cheaper to repair than legal costs and independent examinations.

Sympathy for you.
Dave

[borisbrain]

Again, what AT said. Check this out...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8253915.stm

Bestaluck,

BB

[Balcro]

Hi Skidder,

This is slightly left-field question, but from which of your two speaker boxes did the Kappalite fail?

The Kappalite is usually very robust and in the right cabinet will handle the full rated power of 450 watts right down to 40 Hz. Most speakers are nowhere near as good in the lower bass octave.
However, with a few extra Hz it's power handling drops dramatically. At 35Hz it's power handling could be under 200 watts.

I'm also slightly suspicious about the reply from your retailer when they refer to "fitting a high pass filter to prevent very harmful low frequencies reaching the driver". I wonder where that came from?

Maybe here?? If you check out the plain Kappalite info on Eminence's web-site and select the Cabinet Design PDF, there's a little note at the top. How useful.

Balcro

PS. The huge power handling down to 40Hz followed by a very sudden drop may explain why you didn't hear it farting out.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Balcro

[Roger2611]

I can't remember specifics now but some years back we had two 15 inch Black Widow speakers die in very similar way that the OP describes, we returned the units to Peavey who gave very similar reasons for their demise but the technician I spoke to asked what power amp we were using....when I listed the amps we had he said I bet you were using a certain one to power the bass bins...he was correct and a bit of further digging turned up that there was a bunch of these amps out there with unstable power supplies that were responsible for destroying no end of speakers.
If you cannot find another reason for your speaker failure it may be worth getting you amp checked....I am not sure how reliable the SWR stuff is but it could be a reason for an explained failure