neptunehealer Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Hi Guys. Recently purchased two new cabs and played with them for the first time last night. My old rig, was a 4x12 Laney cab, into a 270w Markbass head all at 8ohms. (Crap sound, and i often had to volume/gain at 3/4) New rig is 4x10, and 2x10 Genz Benz Focus range, and my same Markbass Head now 450w @ 8ohms with the two cabs connected. Ok, we were playing a decent sized marquee, but i found myself still having to turn up 3/4 of the way!!! I did notice a massive improvement with the high end notes and odd bit of slap cutting through. Also, the cabs are far more responsive and actually react to what my amp tells them to do. I guess my concern is why am i having to turn up so loud? i imagined with more power now i would be under half way on the volume/gain.Also i was sandwiched closeto the rig last night, and if i rang a single note out (at the end of a song) the note just stayed there and got louder and louder, is that just feedback as i was too close to it? Any help appreciated as i'm playing again tonight. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) Keeping the same amp and getting more conage can do wonders for volume. I don't know about the sensitivity/excursions of the different speakers, but the cone area of a 4x12 is only slightly less than 6 x 10" speakers - about 4% difference, so you're not increasing the conage as much as you may think Edit, sorry, I just read your post properly, and see that you say that the head is now giving 450w as opposed to the previous 270. I believe that twice the watts increases volume by around 10% Edited June 22, 2013 by Roland Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 That`s having to turn up loud. When I was using a Markbass Little Mark Tube, which was 350 watts at 8ohms, into a Markbass 410 I had the volume perhaps a third of the way up. Roughly the same now I`m using a Markbass 112 combo & 112 ext cab. Sensitivity on the cabs could be playing a part here. Also, what eq are you using - I have found with Markbass that although the filters are very pleasing to the ear, just using the regular eq and leaving the filters off gets a "louder earlier" result. Set the Gain to flicker at the loudest notes you play, up the volume to what`s needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 [quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1371908609' post='2119440'] Ok, we were playing a decent sized marquee, [/quote] Because your not close to a solid sound reflecting surface you will get a significant drop in bass frequency volume compared to a more normal situation where your playing from at the end or in a corner of an indoor space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 +1 If you are playing in a tent you're not hearing your amp or your sound properly. Your amp and cabs are fine. Tell us about it when you've gigged indoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neptunehealer Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 Ok, cheers guys. Tonight i am playing in a pub so a totally different type of environment. My eq setting are low mid and high mid about 12 o'clock, and high about 2 o clock and low about 3 o clock. I am just playing around with it at the moment, i also had my tweeters on too. I will update you further after tonight's gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamfist Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 [quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1371916571' post='2119576'] Ok, cheers guys. Tonight i am playing in a pub so a totally different type of environment. My eq setting are low mid and high mid about 12 o'clock, and high about 2 o clock and low about 3 o clock. I am just playing around with it at the moment, i also had my tweeters on too. I will update you further after tonight's gig. [/quote] OK, you are still mid scooping a bit, which will be your enemy in trying to cut through. The MarkBass bass control is usually centred at 40Hz also, which is very low. You will be using up a huge amount of your amp's energy trying to reproduce these uber-lows. I'd literally use the amp flat, on all EQ, no filters (all fully anticlockwise). Maybe even have bass at about 11:00 and low mids at 1:00 to get more low "punch" rather than genuine lows. Hopefully your gig this evening will sort out your worries anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 (edited) [quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1371924479' post='2119723'] ...you are still mid scooping a bit, which will be your enemy in trying to cut through ...I'd literally use the amp flat, on all EQ, no filters (all fully anticlockwise). Maybe even have bass at about 11:00 and low mids at 1:00 to get more low "punch" rather than genuine lows...[/quote] Good advice - I would add that the sound one gets solo has no bearing whatsoever on the perceived sound one gets when playing in the band. Apologies if the OP knew that already, but it's always worth repeating. Edited June 22, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neptunehealer Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Thank you Hamfist, i will certainly try that setting out. The sound was a lot better last night, i guess the environment helped, as it was a carpeted floor and also indoors. Could really feel the low end, i doubt i'll ever play at 8ohms with one cab ever again. I still need to eq a bit better, but i certainly love these cabs, lightweight and pack a punch. Tempted to get the Genz Benz Shuttle 6.2 with it, will need to review up though. Maybe i'll just have to accept i'll never get a complete sound in a marquee setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggsy Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Hi! Sorry to Hijack the thread but I have a similar setup, 1 4x10 and 1 2x10 (both 8 Ohm) and wondered if anyone had concerns with regards to the power distribution? With this setup the full power is distributed equally between the two so theoretically is the 2x10 is working harder? Or is that not really an issue unless your running the volume at 11! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 [quote name='craggsy' timestamp='1372618698' post='2127791'] Hi! Sorry to Hijack the thread but I have a similar setup, 1 4x10 and 1 2x10 (both 8 Ohm) and wondered if anyone had concerns with regards to the power distribution? With this setup the full power is distributed equally between the two so theoretically is the 2x10 is working harder? Or is that not really an issue unless your running the volume at 11! [/quote] in relation to power, the amp is going the put the same amount of power to each 8Ω cab regardless of speaker config. So if you have a 500 watt amp, the 2x10 is going to get @ 125 watts sent to each driver & the 4x10 is going to get @ 62 watts sent to each driver. It can be an issue at any volume, but your ears are used to decide this. If a cab is farting, back off the low end, turn it down or take it out of the equation. One of the many reasons why it makes sense to get two identical cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craggsy Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Yeah I agree and I'd love to carry around a 6x10 but it just won't fit in the car! or 2 x 4x10s for that matter..,,,,,,buy a bigger car then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 2 good 2x10s or 2x12s should cover any venue that doesn't have PA support. If they don't, then they're either not good cabs or there really should be a big PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 [quote name='craggsy' timestamp='1372618698' post='2127791'] ....With this setup the full power is distributed equally between the two so theoretically is the 2x10 is working harder?.... [/quote] It doesn't matter if the 210 is working harder than the 410, as long as it is working within its capabilities. For instance, a 500watt amp will split 250 watts into each 8 ohm cab. As long as that is within the rating for your 210 cab you're fine. Will you be running your amp flat out? Probably not. If you are running the amp at half volume you will be even less likely to be pushing the cab into the red and causing damage. You'll be well within the ratings of your cabs, so you are fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon bass Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Hi if your amp head is 4 ohms capable you will really want to use it at 4ohms whenever possible if you're having volume issues. If you did'nt know ohms is resistance and the higher the number the grater the resistance will be. for example my genz benz shuttle 6.0 runs at 600w at 4 ohms but at 8ohms it will produce roughly half around 350w. My advice would be to have a 600w 4ohm bass head or even more if you play to above 350 bodies and power from backline and look into a twin 12 cab as you can have a twin 12 cab build to produce around 1000w rms for a fairly cheap price i would estimate around £500 tops. If you D.I. you head which i would recomend if the PA will handle it you only need to hear yourself on stage and the PA will do the rest hence my 1x10 combo i use all the time. If you wish to chat further pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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