Walker Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Afternoon gents, I need to sort some speaker cables for our PA. 2 x tops and 2 x subs. Will I be OK with 10 - 12 metre cable runs? Or is that too long? Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I don't know what would be "too long", but if they won't reach the speakers, they're definitely too short I recently bought some long (15 metre) cables for our PA, and everything's fine. It's surprising isn't it, even in a smallish pub, how several metres of cable can disappear once you start running things sensibly...so that they don't get trodden on etc. As long as they're of decent enough quality, you should be OK. I do still use shorter ones if longer runs aren't absolutely necessary though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 [quote name='barkin' timestamp='1365776902' post='2044382'] It's surprising isn't it, even in a smallish pub, how several metres of cable can disappear once you start running things sensibly [/quote] Absolutely true! Thanks for the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Over 50 feet and you'll start to notice a loss of volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 The trick is to keep the cable runs as short as is practically possible. I always play safe with our PA. We have 5m and 10m Speakon cables and just select the one's most suitable. We also have some Speakon couplers so we can join cables together if we need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1365812377' post='2044962'] We also have some Speakon couplers so we can join cables together if we need to. [/quote] Fantastic idea, thank you - I ordered 5's, 10's and couplers last night. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 It's very often that the amps are on one side of the stage, and require shorter cables than the other. Having (reasonably...) various lengths and couplers give the flexibility and optimisation. If possible, run the cables either behind the backline, or along FOH, taped down. Good cables need good care, too, when tearing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1365812377' post='2044962'] The trick is to keep the cable runs as short as is practically possible. I always play safe with our PA. We have 5m and 10m Speakon cables and just select the one's most suitable. We also have some Speakon couplers so we can join cables together if we need to. [/quote] This. You can reasonably assume most setups will be 4 metres average from stack to stack, plus 3 metres depth of stage area x2 so a good working length would be 10 metres for the stack furthest from the amp rack and a couple of 5 metres and some couplers would take care of the near stack and an extension for problem gigs. A spare is always good to carry! I really like to properly route as many cables behind the stage as possible to prevent all sorts of accidents and unsightly cable runs, but if really needed to,a straight run across the monitor line would be fine if properly taped down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1366016376' post='2047198'] I really like to properly route as many cables behind the stage as possible to prevent all sorts of accidents and unsightly cable runs, but if really needed to,a straight run across the monitor line would be fine if properly taped down. [/quote] Me too - band drive me nuts with this and I'm continually trying to whip them in to shape. Although I'm the techy one, it's the keys player who looks after the desk during gigs for practical reasons and his corner of the stage is always an insane nest of cables, no matter how tidily I start it off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Yep,mine are a nightmare too. I just got the singer to stop chaining 4 way mains across the front of the stage. We use no power at the front of the stage.. Also, he rolls the cables around the plugboard which results in huge white pigtails of cable. I have threatened to maim him and he has stopped, but he still puts out far too many plug boards for our needs and I go round later removing them. Might I suggest a couple of stage snakes to minimise cross stage xlr madness? Thommann do a 6 way 10metre xlr for about £30 delivered,no postage on the second one if you get two. I'm using them to replace my far too big 24 way stage box and intend to put one at the rear of the stage and one in front of the centre wedge. If you have active wedges you can send your aux out with a chan on the box if you use a sex change adaptor. Yes I'm very anal about cables.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1366023089' post='2047314'] Yes I'm very anal about cables.. [/quote] I've drawn coloured diagrams of our cable runs, snakes and stage setup - that's anal! But it has helped me go from zero experience to understanding this stuff fairly quickly - in a band full of technical imbeciles! Oh, and you guys answering my endless questions has helped too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1365780186' post='2044472'] Over 50 feet and you'll start to notice a loss of volume. [/quote] Depends on the core area surely, and only becomes a problem if your system is "maxed out"? Edited April 15, 2013 by Count Bassy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1366023089' post='2047314'] Yep,mine are a nightmare too. I just got the singer to stop chaining 4 way mains across the front of the stage. We use no power at the front of the stage.. Also, he rolls the cables around the plugboard which results in huge white pigtails of cable. I have threatened to maim him and he has stopped, but he still puts out far too many plug boards for our needs and I go round later removing them. Might I suggest a couple of stage snakes to minimise cross stage xlr madness? Thommann do a 6 way 10metre xlr for about £30 delivered,no postage on the second one if you get two. I'm using them to replace my far too big 24 way stage box and intend to put one at the rear of the stage and one in front of the centre wedge. If you have active wedges you can send your aux out with a chan on the box if you use a sex change adaptor. Yes I'm very anal about cables.. [/quote] I'd been thinking that, especially as we're about to pick up a bigger rig. There's someone local to me on Gumtree flogging an 8 xlr/4 balanced jack 4m stagebox on the cheap so I may grab that. Will be miking the kit for bigger rooms so will be a lifesaver for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1366016376' post='2047198'] I really like to properly route as many cables behind the stage as possible to prevent all sorts of accidents and unsightly cable runs, but if really needed to,a straight run across the monitor line would be fine if properly taped down. [/quote] [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1366022441' post='2047301'] Me too - band drive me nuts with this and I'm continually trying to whip them in to shape. Although I'm the techy one, it's the keys player who looks after the desk during gigs for practical reasons and his corner of the stage is always an insane nest of cables, no matter how tidily I start it off! [/quote] Now I play in a band with really serious "stage OCD", and I am all in favour! All cables black, [i]only [/i]black gaffa, anything on the stage that needn't be there must be removed, anything that cannot be removed that is not black must be covered over with something black!!! Oh, and use a black towel... It does result in a very presentable and professional looking setup! Perhaps the subject of a new topic here!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I just secured some black scrim for cover ups etc. Nothing wrong in taking a bit of pride in the stage,compared to some death traps some bands play on. With my lot, it's me and the drummer(who has a lot of theatre experience) who like to dress the stage. The others are blissfully unaware of this universe and all that lies in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1366098777' post='2048186'] The others are blissfully unaware of this universe and all that lies in it. [/quote] Glad it's not just me and my band! Anyway... my (beautiful!) Klotz/Neutrik 2.5mm speaker cables arrived today. They are on a reel / drum, bit like a hosepipe which will make life a lot easier. Can I leave surplus cable on the reel or will there be heat issues like power cables. Sorry if this is a daft question! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Actually no. Try this, http://www.diamondcut.com/AppNotes/wirechart.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1365780186' post='2044472'] Over 50 feet and you'll start to notice a loss of volume. [/quote] At big venues it would be better to have the amps closer to the stacks and run signal to them, avoiding long speaker cable runs. For even greater runs (such a sports events, or railway stations...) one would prefer 100v lines to reduce ohmic losses, but we're out of 'ordinary' band league PA here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 +1 to that. You get no loss with balanced signal cables, so, amps either side of the stage and as short as you can get away with speaker cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 [quote name='Walker' timestamp='1366113352' post='2048404'] Can I leave surplus cable on the reel or will there be heat issues like power cables. Sorry if this is a daft question! [/quote] Can anyone advise on this? ta Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 [quote name='Walker' timestamp='1366196240' post='2049401'] Can anyone advise on this? ta Chris [/quote] At the current (amperage...) levels in question, this should not be an issue. It would be an enormous rig to generate discernable heat in decent speaker cables. For my part, I've yet to experience temperature rise, coiled or not. I wouldn't worry about it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker Posted April 17, 2013 Author Share Posted April 17, 2013 Thank you very much indeed. Huge help. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted April 19, 2013 Share Posted April 19, 2013 Agreed, not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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