EBS_freak Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 That Behringer is a great piece of kit - certainly alot of connectivity on the go for not a great amount of cash. I've got a number of digital desks on my radar at the moment but it's going to be quite an investment to get the number of channels and outs that I need. That Mackie DL is good - the reverb isn't the greatest on it but it's a really neat package. Just wish they'd come out with a 32 channel version of it! Talking of Behringer, that X32 seems to be taking the mixing desk world by storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) OK as everyone is saying this is a huge topic. If it is any use I have started to write a Noddy's guide for Ultimate Guitar, this is the one for monitors, its fairly basic but might be useful [url="http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/columns/the_guide_to/the_guide_to_pa_part_three_-_monitors.html"]http://www.ultimate-...-_monitors.html[/url] the rest can be found through my profile on UG. If you are new to this then active monitors are great, just less to think about and they pretty much work like your guitar amp but for vocals which makes them quite non-scary to set up but there isn't a right or wrong. I don't think anyone clarified the pre-fade post-fade thing. Sorry if they did and I missed it. You need to be able to adjust the volume for the monitors separately from the main mix. Pre fade is before the main volume control for each channel and is for monitor use. Post fade takes the output from after the volume on each channel and is used for effects mainly. Obviously if you turn the vocals up you want the echo to go up by the same amount etc. Edited January 9, 2013 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 EBS, yep the X32 calls to me in my sleep. I intend buying one at the end of the year if work goes well. Only trouble is its just that bit too big for your average wedding,especially in a decent case though not ruling it out. I reckon I can fit our show on the Mackie and it will fit almost anywhere,but it has no mute groups or Channel links yet,hopefully they'll update the firmware soonish. Lots of interest free deals popping up too : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) X32 is indeed stunning. I've been doing some hefty research on digital desks before dropping the cash... The Presonus did have the market sewn up at that price point... but the X32 really has blitzed it. It's amusing - on the Presonus forums, the moderators have been working hard removing all the conversations featuring the X32. I think the X32 has them knackered - they best have something to fight back with... and quick. They could do with their 24 channel desk moving to 32 channels, with all the firewire recording capability - with a cheap digital snake... I suspect they haven't. Digital desks have really had a shake up in the last year. The X32 has knackered Presonus. The GLD-80 has pretty much knackered everything else. Now is the time to pick up those LS9s... Edited January 10, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 (edited) [size=4][font=Arial][color=#000000]What an illuminating thread this has turned out to be. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]I’m convinced by the conversation between EBS Freak and Monkeyman about the popularity and usefulness of digital desks for the professionals. As a beginner though, my confidence heads for door at the thought of using one in real time on a gig. Too many open manhole covers. One for the future perhaps…[ /color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000] Flyfisher +. Monkeyman – thanks for your recommendations for a mixer with enough pre fade outs. The Allen and Heath mixwizard is now on the wants list. From the sounds of it, that desk will be good enough for anything I’m likely to do for a while. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000] Anyone selling a used Wz3 out there ? [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]For me, one of the more important concepts that has emerged from this discussion is the importance of monitors in the overall context of the PA. In my current band, they’re almost regarded as an afterthought. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]When I’ve worked with good monitors in the past, I was always impressed by the confidence they inspire not only in my performance, but in the performance of the band as a whole. Now l regard monitors as being at least as important as front of house. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]The idea of powered monitors is appealing. As others have said, the internal amp is matched to the speaker characteristics, which contributes to a better sound overall. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]As this topic progressed, I had the idea of buying a set of FOH speakers for my first, smaller rig and using them as monitors as I upgrade the FOH. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]However, I’ve come to realise that may not be such a good idea, as I’ve read FOH units ideally disperse the sound over a broad area for good coverage ? do most people agree with this ?[/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000]If this is the case, FOH speakers may not be directional enough to avoid overspill on stage. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000] As for FOH, the idea of a built - in amp for a sub sounds great, along with active tops. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000] thanks for all the help, especially to Bertbass, EBS freak, Monkeyman, Flyfisher, PhilStarr, Truckstop, Deepbass. Also thanks to Owen for the kind offer. [/color][/font] [font=Arial][color=#000000] More to come[/color][/font][/size] Edited January 10, 2013 by essexbasscat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I like the idea of budget IEM via wired headphones - going to look into that, thanks Owen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1357842642' post='1929464'] I like the idea of budget IEM via wired headphones - going to look into that, thanks Owen. [/quote] I looked at this when setting up a previous band, but went for Trantec IEM's - transmitter sits by mixer and can take a mono or a stereo source, belt-pack receivers for each singing band member. The PA handled vocals and a smidge of guitar (plus keyboards at one point ). The drummer had the option of wired IEMs from the headphone socket on the desk, but I thought wired 'phones would be too restricting for the guitarist and bass player (me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1357861427' post='1929858'] I thought wired 'phones would be too restricting for the guitarist and bass player (me). [/quote] I was only going to use them for the singer, we would still have a vocal monitor or two for the rest of us. The singer always complains that he wants to be louder in the monitor and that can produce feedback, so IEM would help him hear himself better. We can't afford a proper wireless set up though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Careful those guys running a wired IEM setup - you really need a limiter in there or otherwise at the first sign of feedback you'll be having very hurty ears! Anybody wondering about IEMs, its worth investing properly. I love em! PS essex, you have a PM. Edited January 11, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1357865373' post='1929913'] Careful those guys running a wired IEM setup - you really need a limiter in there or otherwise at the first sign of feedback you'll be having very hurty ears! [/quote] Oh, I didn't think of that - could you get feedback through headphones fed from the monitor sends on the desk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Yes. Feedback could be triggered from FOH, other non iem monitors and in cases where singers arent thinking where they are pointing the mic or covering the mic with their hand. If feedback on a channel exists and you are sending a signal to your ears via an aux... be careful! Edited January 11, 2013 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) Yes, but the in ears do a lot to prevent that just by not having a great lump of monitor wedge firing into your vocal mic. But.. Should you wander in front of the PA ( unlikely if its a wired setup)or dangle your mic into the guitarists wedge you may end up with feedback in which case a limiter on the aux out will prevent the worst of it. Still, a one U compressor is a lot lighter and cheaper than a wedge and amp. MM As above : ) Edited January 11, 2013 by Monckyman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I bought a Shure Auxpander as my desk has 2 pre-fade auxes (and 2 post too) and we needed more that 2 pre-fade mixes, have tried it a couple of time and under pressure at a gig and it wasn't an enjoyable experience but I'm going to persevere as I think it will work when i understand the routing a little more than I do at the moment... I was wondering Owen, is that similar to your Samson amp? What IEM's are you using as my gig last night was a pig to engineer, weirdly shaped playing area, complete with obligatory "keep a route free through to stage to the bogs" type thing at a really small venue meant one guitar amp was at least 2 metres in front of the other, really keen to explore further as no one could hear anything on stage. We mic up everything to keep stage volume reasonably low and always get compliments on our FOH sound but it wasn't enjoyable for us last night as we couldn't hear ourselves playing and whilst we all turned up a little onstage, it did solve our problem with the limited time soundcheck time we had As an aside, if I was reading this I might be tempted to say "just dont play there again" and believe me, we're already there on that one for this particular venue (cocky stand in-manager trying (and failing!) to get away with paying us half our agreed fee cos "that was what he had written in the book"), but I want to do better than just not going to back to places which are tough to manage sound-wise, I wanna beat 'em and get better! Any suggestions on a good starting point for IEM's (make and models ideally please) would be greatly appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 The big question is... What are you looking for and what budget? Wired or wireless... And as for the in ears... it really is down to budget... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazm Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 We are about to use a mixture of wireless & wired (for the drummer) IEM via 2 Behringer P16-M and 2 passive wedges each on their own aux mix from the X32 (using a power amp) mixed using the XiQ iPhone app for the X32. First outing with this next week so I'll let you know how it goes. Prior to this we've just used the 2 wedges but everyone wants their own mix (4 piece band) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 For me it would be wireless, in terms of budget I'd spend what I need to get get what suits, but would prefer to start at the lower end in case I find they aren't for me. Guitar, bass and 2 mics are also wireless which imagine will further muddy the waters?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben604 Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Anyone tried the little Box MA205 or Behringer B205D monitors on a mic stand next to the singers? We use a couple of JBL EON 15s at the moment, through my Presonus 16.0.2 (which is lovely, by the way, X32 fans!! ) We've got 4 aux mixes, so we could all have a mix if we wanted, I'd say you'd get away with 2 if you have nice, flexible band members! I'd get powered monitors, pain in the backside carting power amps about, and you more often than not get a 2/3 band eq on powered monitors, which helps with feedback etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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