fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 My amp/speaker/bass sound is not ideal ( for me ) and i'm looking for some help to squeeze out a tone thats suits me. Currently, the sound i get is too twangy, a smidgeon too gritty, with little in the way of low end oomph . I use a 2 x10 and 1x15, though not the setup i desire, its all i have. Preamp ( and FX ) is a Digitech BP8, and instead of the bass mid treble on regualr preamps, I got shelving EQ. ( bit confusing ) If any more info is required to make the suggestions, go ahead and i will post back Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Use just one of the cabs, figure which one you like. The inherent issues of mixed cabs pretty much throw eq out the window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'm more partial to the BFM 2x10 !! But the BP8 has a crossover on its 2 outputs, so this can be enabled, if that makes a difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Are the cabs a matched set..?? if they are, I would discount them being the issue. If not, then you may need to work with just one cab at a time to see if they 'clash'. But..I am thinking the BP8 is not helpful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Very possible its not helping JT, and cabs are not matched, but anyways - i've logged the freq for the shelving This is how they look. Low ---- lowest freq possible is 31hz Mid 1 ----------------------- ----is 80hz Mid 2 -------------------------- is 250hz High ---------------------------- is 1000hz Crossover minimum is 80hz and above ... max is 500hz and above Edited December 23, 2012 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'd work on one cab... the 210, and centre those 4 controls... I wouldn't bother whether this 'true' flat or not... it is where I would start getting the sound.. and it becomes the reference point. I assume you don't have any other filter type controls to confuse things..?? The twang to me, seems to point to a mid hole..which you don't seem to fancy. I think the bass at about 11, and the 2 mids around about 1 o'clock with the intention of filling that hole. I can't hear how the mid controls will fill that hole though. Treble wouldn't be more that 1 either, depending how you hear you sound. A lot depends on how effective the EQ stage actually is. Can you dilute the grind with less gain..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Work on the assumption the cabs aren't giving you anything below about 45hz, so pulling down the lows will give you a tone more headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1356287935' post='1908848'] Work on the assumption the cabs aren't giving you anything below about 45hz, so pulling down the lows will give you a tone more headroom. [/quote] This, plus I would trry stacking the 2x10 vertically ontop of the 1x15. See if the sound clears up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1356282987' post='1908773'] My amp/speaker/bass sound is not ideal ( for me ) and i'm looking for some help to squeeze out a tone thats suits me. Currently, the sound i get is too twangy, a smidgeon too gritty, with little in the way of low end oomph . I use a 2 x10 and 1x15, though not the setup i desire, its all i have. Preamp ( and FX ) is a Digitech BP8, and instead of the bass mid treble on regualr preamps, I got shelving EQ. ( bit confusing ) If any more info is required to make the suggestions, go ahead and i will post back Cheers [/quote] Buy a behringer bass graphic equaliser for £20 on the internet. It will give you a lot more EQ options than you have now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356287288' post='1908842'] I'd work on one cab... the 210, and centre those 4 controls... I wouldn't bother whether this 'true' flat or not... it is where I would start getting the sound.. and it becomes the reference point. I assume you don't have any other filter type controls to confuse things..?? The twang to me, seems to point to a mid hole..which you don't seem to fancy. I think the bass at about 11, and the 2 mids around about 1 o'clock with the intention of filling that hole. I can't hear how the mid controls will fill that hole though. Treble wouldn't be more that 1 either, depending how you hear you sound. A lot depends on how effective the EQ stage actually is. Can you dilute the grind with less gain..?? [/quote] JT , the EQ are not knobs. The only EQ is in the menu system, which are freqs that have to be set. EG on the low shelf which has a minimum of 31hz, i can set that at anything between 31-80hz, and can boost or cut On the mid 1 which has a minimum of 80hz, i can set it anything between 80-250hz and boost or cut. On the mid 2 which has a minimum of 250hz i can set that at anything between 250-1000hz and boost or cut. On the high which has a minimum of 1000hz, i can that at anything between 1000 and beyond to boost or cut. There no other EQ adjustments I backed off the input gain a tad, and this softened the grind a bit, then boosted the output to the power amp, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1356287935' post='1908848'] Work on the assumption the cabs aren't giving you anything below about 45hz, so pulling down the lows will give you a tone more headroom. [/quote] I can certainly set the low shelf to 45hz, and cut at that freq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1356289736' post='1908875'] This, plus I would trry stacking the 2x10 vertically ontop of the 1x15. See if the sound clears up. [/quote] I did try that last night at a gig, and it didnt sound that good, but then i hadnt got the advice here, so with the current advice, i might try stacking again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1356291278' post='1908901'] Buy a behringer bass graphic equaliser for £20 on the internet. It will give you a lot more EQ options than you have now. [/quote] I could, but then i wouldnt run the behringer preamp and the BP8 preamp together, but i would lose all my FX. There isnt the option to defeat all EQ on the BP8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1356293954' post='1908946'] I can certainly set the low shelf to 45hz, and cut at that freq. [/quote] Probably best leaving as low as it will go and cutting, it will cut some above 45 and heads toward less ideal. Or set it to cut loads, and shift the freq up until you actually hear a tone change, then go back a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Foxy, the low as it will go is 31hz, so cut at that freq as a starter ? The low section covers 31hz - 80hz At mo, the Low freq is set at 45hz, and is cut -1 Edited December 23, 2012 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 See if cutting as much as it can is audible at 31 hz, cutting stuff your cabs aren't making sound is always going to be a win. Use the sweep to find when the cut becomes audible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1356293907' post='1908945'] JT , the EQ are not knobs. The only EQ is in the menu system, which are freqs that have to be set. EG on the low shelf which has a minimum of 31hz, i can set that at anything between 31-80hz, and can boost or cut On the mid 1 which has a minimum of 80hz, i can set it anything between 80-250hz and boost or cut. On the mid 2 which has a minimum of 250hz i can set that at anything between 250-1000hz and boost or cut. On the high which has a minimum of 1000hz, i can that at anything between 1000 and beyond to boost or cut. There no other EQ adjustments I backed off the input gain a tad, and this softened the grind a bit, then boosted the output to the power amp, [/quote] Yes..was talking about a dial... and got lost in the analogy...sorry. A lot of pre amps have variables like this...and you think you will want the lows but you really don't. What is the db cut and boost..? Would guess about 0-5 plus and minus. I would probably start out around 60hz... no lower..and start with a small boost. The mids will be the case of playing around...but just to keep it simple... until you get to know how the pre works in terms of sound..I'd keep everything plus..or boosted....around 1.. If it sound horrible, cut by increments of 1. This will likely be quite a labour... so small adjustments all going the same way... rather than random cuts and boosts..as thta just confuses where you are with it all... especially as you will probably have to open a menu or sorts to recall where you set everything.. I had a variable pre like this insid a bass...was a nightmare to get to grips with...!! Have to say, dials are easier..even 4 band para's which this seems modelled on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1356296124' post='1908986'] See if cutting as much as it can is audible at 31 hz, cutting stuff your cabs aren't making sound is always going to be a win. Use the sweep to find when the cut becomes audible. [/quote] Tried that Foxy. cut to -15 at 31hz, and then varied the cut from -15 to zero, and didnt really hear a difference. Next notch up from 31hz is 34hz, then 37hz, then 40hz, then 43hz, then 47hz and so on. Doesnt seem to have much effect till we get into the 40's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1356297278' post='1909003'] This will likely be quite a labour... so small adjustments all going the same way... rather than random cuts and boosts..as thta just confuses where you are with it all... especially as you will probably have to open a menu or sorts to recall where you set everything.. I had a variable pre like this insid a bass...was a nightmare to get to grips with...!! Have to say, dials are easier..even 4 band para's which this seems modelled on. [/quote] Couldnt agree more. I think the suggestion to buy a cheap behringer as the EQ section is looking more succulent ! I have just found that i can fully defeat the EQ section, which i was sure i couldnt before. I did this and heard next to no difference. How weird Edited December 23, 2012 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 If it's the Jack 210 you've got the frequency plots are very flat. You may be getting too much top end in your ears. Is that what you mean by twangy? Try putting the 2x10 underneath the 1x15. The coupling you get with two cabs should give natural bass boost anyway. If the cabs are not matched you should also check that they are in phase. First try one cab then plug the other one in you should get a noticeable increase in volume. If not, use a 9v battery and touch the terminals briefly to a speaker lead and note which way the speaker jumps, then repeat for the other cab. It should jump the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) Yep its a Jack The 2x10 is way narrower and shallower than the 1x15, but slightly taller. I tried the 2x10 on top this evening after reading the posts, but the sound went a bit naughty. Vol, and bottom slightly disappeared. But then one cab, the 15, is 8 ohm and the Jack is 4 ohm, but i've already been told there wouldnt be much audible vol difference. But, as i keep making changes this evening, i'm starting to get a better sound, and though it will never be ideal due to the cab setup, its certainly improved, and i'm getting to the point where its more acceptable, ( to me ) bar finding another Jack, which is what i really want. One will turn up at some point i expect Edited December 23, 2012 by fleabag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I'd expect the jack to be way louder than the 15 alone, aside from voicing differences. The phase with the jack might be loads more complicated due to the hybrid design though, so its unlikely to agree with the 15 over much of its range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 Probably the definitive answer there Foxy. I'll struggle on with this until I can get me another 2x10 Jack, as i really like 'em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) I agree. I would ditch the 15" and just use the Jack. Stand it on end vertically, maybe lean it back a touch, it will look better and sound better. I have a Warwick 211pro that is more than loud enough for most gigs and, if I need it, another one that I stack vertically on top of it. That changes the sound a lot. More bottom end due to coupling and more definition due to the speaker closer to my ears. Does your amp go down to 2ohms? A 4 and an 8 in parallel can be less than 4! Edited December 24, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted December 24, 2012 Author Share Posted December 24, 2012 Hi Tim - you could be right about just taking the Jack. Might experiment at the next gig ! I dont think my amp does 2 ohms, but then its a 2 channel output so it matters not a jot that i have a 15 500 watt 8 ohm cab on one channel, and a 2x10 500 watt 4 ohm cab on the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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