Musicman20 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I was going to actually say that Sandberg basses seem to lose a LOT of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354840460' post='1891244'] I was going to actually say that Sandberg basses seem to lose a LOT of money. [/quote] The problem with Sandberg as a brand is that they haven't really got any big name or high -profile muso players using them , and when it comes to bass values , rightly or wrongly , that makes a very real difference . Indeed , who plays what brand you are trying to sell makes a big difference to whether you can sell a bass at all , let alone for what price . I haven't played one yet , but these Sandbergs look very good quality basses from what I have seen , and all it would take is for a star player like Flea / Geddy Lee /Justin Chancellor / him out of Coldplay ( spot the odd one out ) to start playing one to launch them into the big time . It's all about marketing strategy . Very few brands sell well without conspicuous pro player association , and that is something that will always be in the Stingrays favour . People still buy them because Flea used to play them over twenty years ago . Edited December 7, 2012 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBass Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I think Dingus has it spot on there, when we were all kids or just starting out, we all had that one Pro bassist that we thought we were/wanted to be and strived to replicate their sound and thus use their gear. Personally when I first started out Steve Harris was my biggest influence, those galloping bass lines, that distinct sound that is mixed and cut so well and what did he play, a Fender P-Bass and what were my first 2 basses, Squire P-Basses. Back then I didn't know ANYTHING of anything else I didn't know about tone and playability I just wanted to be and sound like Steve Harris and would pay the money to achieve that. Nowadays I aspire to have a vintage tone of a Rickenbacker and low and behold the bassists that influence me most currently are John Entwistle and Macca and those guys played Rics and had a cracking tone. I'd personally pay the money for Ric yet other people won't. I'd happily buy a Stingray at the current prices but wouldn't if they were higher than £900 2nd hand, it's all about supply and demand and personal taste and necessity. If you're gonna post a FS add on your Stingray you have a sneaky look to see what the value is otherwise some guy is gonna undercut you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1354840460' post='1891244'] I was going to actually say that Sandberg basses seem to lose a LOT of money. [/quote] The basics don't do so well, neither do the custom ones people have ordered then try to pass on. But I've seen some California fetch decent enough prices, but it always takes the right buyer for the right bass. Every bass is only worth what some one is willing to pay, unfortunately a lot of people will pay a lot less for something and a lot more for something else. Unfortunately that is effected by the economy as well as the market, if you've seen one US jazz standard go for less that £600 why would someone else expect to sell theirs for £800. I struggle to part more than £600 on any given bass regardless of brand or whatever, new or secondhand. Infact I've only ever had one bass that was more than that. Edited December 8, 2012 by Prime_BASS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1354887809' post='1891643'] The problem with Sandberg as a brand is that they haven't really got any big name or high -profile muso players using them , and when it comes to bass values , rightly or wrongly , that makes a very real difference . Indeed , who plays what brand you are trying to sell makes a big difference to whether you can sell a bass at all , let alone for what price . I haven't played one yet , but these Sandbergs look very good quality basses from what I have seen , and all it would take is for a star player like Flea / Geddy Lee /Justin Chancellor / him out of Coldplay ( spot the odd one out ) to start playing one to launch them into the big time . It's all about marketing strategy . Very few brands sell well without conspicuous pro player association , and that is something that will always be in the Stingrays favour . People still buy them because Flea used to play them over twenty years ago . [/quote] That and their marketing is just a bit odd. Like from what folk say- quality wise there is little that touches them in their price bracket - but they don't themselves tell you that! The stuff that looks like fenders are always going to be half popular - but looking at the range the basic stuff looks the most interesting - and from my guestimation the pups are in the MM sweet spot - but they don't say that - or tell you much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1354975772' post='1892513'] That and their marketing is just a bit odd. Like from what folk say- quality wise there is little that touches them in their price bracket - but they don't themselves tell you that! The stuff that looks like fenders are always going to be half popular - but looking at the range the basic stuff looks the most interesting - and from my guestimation the pups are in the MM sweet spot - but they don't say that - or tell you much. [/quote] I think the basic is their best bass personally(although I may be biased, and I don't like fender stuff too much) You'd be right in the pickup placement, although I don't think they are allowed to say out right that is it is that sweetspot position. I think they had to change all the J and P's to V and T's for some legal reason too. And BTW it does sound like a Stingray, and a Warwick in it's articulation of notes, although it is a lot easier to coax out jazz bridge sounds and P bass sounds as the preamp is very un-coloured, the difference between active and passive is the active has extended top and bottom, and the passive sounds like a very open bass, yet still sounds passive with that nice saturation in sound. Also about Sandbergs marketing. They have recently (as what it looks) gave that davidsinsrocks dude over on YouTube an endorsement, seen a few vids with a weird jazz sandberg with the mm pickup in the middle position, sounded crap to me, but he has a few on now with a custom Sandberg basic 4M and sounds lovely. Also MarloweDK on YouTube has a signature model sandberg, both have a very impressive amount of views on any given video they upload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 Trouble is that's loads of confusing models, for many many years musician had only a handful of models with the stingray being popular from the off and no squier, Mexican, skyline, budget versions available which cemented them just like the fender p and j as proper basses that were identical to the ones we saw on the tv, someone probably as famous as me owns the stingray made one serial number either side of fleas bssm era bass for example, sandberg are probably too accommodating to get a known model firmly set in people's minds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chambo Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I honestly think that at the moment people seem to be tuned into either custom made, start up or vingtage-ish. Mass produced is having a hard time and this seems to be the same with lots of other things too. Problem with lots of things nowadays is that when it comes down to it your paying for a brand . . . does that brand equate to quality? I don't know, but you can get decent quality at low prices. All I know is that when I was younger everyone wanted Warwick and Musicmans, now they don't, unless they are cheap enough. It's just fashion I guess. Saying that Warwicks do look a bit retro/kitsch to me these days, still fancy a Dophin, sort of attractive in an ugly way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Pricing I think firmer than most, softer than a few. What suprises me more is that the AC/DC bassist always plays one (or two) I still can't get my head around a ray being used soley for metal? Funk n stuff yes. .....must have bass boost up full, mids n trebles, cut completely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 [quote name='molan' timestamp='1354672328' post='1889078'] I think it's been fairly easy to pick up recent'ish Rays for around the £600 mark for a while really. [/quote] On the couple of occasions I've considered a Ray, it's been one between £600-£700. They've been available at that price for a while, from realistic sellers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Well now a normal Stingray H is £1400+ new, it will change the market over the next 5 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355010347' post='1893036'] Well now a normal Stingray H is £1400+ new, it will change the market over the next 5 years or so. [/quote] My 02 I traded was £1295 new, list was even more yet my house has tripled in value! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355010347' post='1893036'] Well now a normal Stingray H is £1400+ new, it will change the market over the next 5 years or so. [/quote] There are two reasons why this is not neccesarily going to be the case . Firstly , the second hand price isn't primarily dictated by the new retail price , rather it is dictated by the availabilty of other basses on the secondhand market . It is that factor that is already pulling down the price of secondhand Stingrays , and there is no tangible reason why it will change in the next five years any more than it has changed in the last five years . Indeed , in the last five years the prices seem to have fallen if anything , going by what people on here say . There is no reason why the secondhand prices will start to significantly rise because the retail price has reached a certain level . Supply continues to dilute the marketplace regardless . The other factor to consider is that in five years the actual value of any fee you get for a bass will be diminished by inflation . Put simply , if you get £900 for a Stingray in few years from now what that £900 will buy you will only be the same or less as what the £ 700 or so you could get for it now will buy you . Especially if you are planning to use the money to buy another bass , you will find that other goods have risen in price proportionately , or more so . I know you keep your stuff mint , so that can make a significant difference in the right circumstances , and as with every sale , finding the right buyer can make all the difference . Don't get me wrong , I am all for people getting as much as they can for whatever they are selling - that's what I do - and your EBMM collection will always be worth decent money and you will always be able to find a buyer for them , but getting back what you paid for them or close to that might be a difficult ask . You still wouldn't be losing much in the scheme of things , though , so it's not all bad news . Edited December 9, 2012 by Dingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 The only argument with the supply and demand idea is that because more people wanted them in the first place than other brands then as long as that trend continues thenough they will stay popular gas items used too, that's why there are even more fenders which must be over saturated in the market place ten times over compared to rays but as they are probably on most people's wanted list from their first bass lesson it levels out. Gibson basses to me appear less desirable by and large and although there are less of them available there are less folk with their wallets out for them too which keeps the values down. Supply and demand again I guess so it really depends just like we said about sandberg who is in the limelight over the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 The other point to note is that most bassists in the UK probably don't spend much time on here, if at all. We are, in my mind, in a bit of a bubble when it comes to trends and prices. I don't refer to eBay prices because eBay is a joke with everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355055105' post='1893339'] The other point to note is that most bassists in the UK probably don't spend much time on here, if at all. We are, in my mind, in a bit of a bubble when it comes to trends and prices. I don't refer to eBay prices because eBay is a joke with everything! [/quote] True, I find it hard to talk to any bassist about anything that isn't mainstream. My best conversations about gear and stuff have been with people I've met on here. Although I do think prices on eBay are similar to those on here. Although I sold my markbass cabs for £300 each posted and on eBay one went for nearly £400 colleceted. I lost out no big deal, but the knock on effect of my fairly low priced item is that when others sell theirs for more they might not shift as easily as the market is clever and would know they can be had for less, so why pay more? even if you really want it? Buying anything as personal as a bass or equipment is always different for every case. I picked up one of my cabs used for £190, I brought the second, exactly the same brand new for £262 just because I really wanted my full rig for a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1355055105' post='1893339'] The other point to note is that most bassists in the UK probably don't spend much time on here, if at all. We are, in my mind, in a bit of a bubble when it comes to trends and prices. I don't refer to eBay prices because eBay is a joke with everything! [/quote] That is why I say it is always important to find the right buyer . I would always refer back to my previously stated maxim that things are worth what you can get for them , and if you can get more rather than less then good luck to you ! Like I say , I am all for folks getting as much as they can - as the saying goes , a fair exchange is no robbery . Things do tend to sell for more " realistic " prices on Basschat than some other places , but a lot of folks are selling stuff that they themselves have bought used and so aren't losing that much . Another important factor to consider is how quickly you need to shift the bass you are selling . If you needed the money quickly you are far more likely to have to compromise on the asking price . I have no vested interest in any of this , and much like yourself , for one reason or another , nowadays I only buy new equipment , and have done for a long time now . I am only likely to be affected when selling stuff , and would be subject to the same market forces as yourself . But the question remains , if you were trying to get more than you would get on Basschat for a Stingray , where would you look to get it and how likey are you to get what you want ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355047317' post='1893219'] The only argument with the supply and demand idea is that because more people wanted them in the first place than other brands then as long as that trend continues thenough they will stay popular gas items used too, that's why there are even more fenders which must be over saturated in the market place ten times over compared to rays but as they are probably on most people's wanted list from their first bass lesson it levels out. Gibson basses to me appear less desirable by and large and although there are less of them available there are less folk with their wallets out for them too which keeps the values down. Supply and demand again I guess so it really depends just like we said about sandberg who is in the limelight over the next few years. [/quote] The enduring appeal of Musicman Stingrays is undeniable , but it has always been a sought after model and the prices are still relatively low on the whole because it's easy to get a new one or a used one , whatever you fancy . If Stingrays had their legendary reputation but were hard to find items made in small numbers and scarcely available then they would rocket in price . Imagine if EBMM hadn't bought the Music Man patent and all production had ceased in 1983 . The original MM basses would be even more valuable than they are now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1355062577' post='1893491'] The enduring appeal of Musicman Stingrays is undeniable , but it has always been a sought after model and the prices are still relatively low on the whole because it's easy to get a new one or a used one , whatever you fancy . If Stingrays had their legendary reputation but were hard to find items made in small numbers and scarcely available then they would rocket in price . Imagine if EBMM hadn't bought the Music Man patent and all production had ceased in 1983 . The original MM basses would be even more valuable than they are now . [/quote] Or would no one be interested in them at all like lots of other small production run stuff? Ebmm keeping the legend alive keeps people like me gassing for the earlier ones Edited December 9, 2012 by stingrayPete1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355072547' post='1893650'] Or would no one be interested in them at all like lots of other small production run stuff? Ebmm keeping the legend alive keeps people like me gassing for the earlier ones [/quote] I was playing the bass when original Music Man were still in business and they were always highly regarded and sought after basses by pros and enthusiasts alike . Stingrays never go in or out of fashion , they just are . Music Man would still be prized American guitars , not least of all because of the Leo Fender association . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 True, glad I have two of each then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianhowardbass Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Gotta say that the build of Musicman is so much better than Fender. I've got an SR5 and 2 American Fender basses, and the Stingray is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 9, 2012 Author Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='ianhowardbass' timestamp='1355077010' post='1893748'] Gotta say that the build of Musicman is so much better than Fender. I've got an SR5 and 2 American Fender basses, and the Stingray is amazing. [/quote] I simply couldn't comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1355079827' post='1893810'] I simply couldn't comment [/quote] Having had a fair share of EBMM basses I know that they are top notch stuff, not had a bad one as such, and only ever falling out with them because of my own taste, and one that I let go of and shouldn't. One that I will continue to regret I think for a good long time. Even more so as now it's been refinished and will never quiet be the same bass. The Sandberg is a lovely instrument though and I would dare say a better tool than my old Stingray, although the old stingray had a bit more character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 [quote name='ianhowardbass' timestamp='1355077010' post='1893748'] Gotta say that the build of Musicman is so much better than Fender. I've got an SR5 and 2 American Fender basses, and the Stingray is amazing. [/quote] I'd go as far to say EBMM are miles ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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