Economy of motion

[JohnFitzgerald]

I've long thought that I suffered what is best described as poor economy of motion in both my fretting hand and also in my plucking hand.
It's something I consciously try to avoid, but it always seems to be there. I'm not even sure that I do actually do it, but it feels to me like I do and it often feels to me like it limits fluidity and dexterity.

Obviously, it's only right that I offer up some excuses here. I'm left handed and play right handed. I know, that's no excuse, but there you go. Also I believe I have particularly long fingers. Never held Stanley Clarke back, but I'm sticking with it.

Any suggestions or techniques for keeping the fingers limited to doing what they need to do and no more ?
It feels to me like they move around more than they need to and I'd like to address it.

Cheers

JF

[paul_5]

Long fingers might appear to move more than little ones due to the length accentuating the pivot at the knuckle etc...

Best thing to do is to have your technique examined by a good teacher and they can perhaps suggest some exercises to help you modify your technique.

[Coilte]

It is hard to offer specific advice without seeing a clip of you playing. Generally, economy of motion comes from having both hands relaxed. It also involves keeping the fretting fingers as close to the fretboard as possible, at all times.

For this, try putting a finger on each fret( above the fifth fret, to avoid over stretching). Now lift the index finger off just enough to get a clear sound. Replace the finger, lift the next one, repeat, and do the same with the others. Do this regularly as part of your warm up. After a while your fingers should "get the message" as to what is required of them.

Playing with a light touch and letting the amp do the work can also help.


While this clip is aimed at beginners, you might find it useful.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeRoQuXlj9w[/url]

Edited November 12, 2012 by Coilte

[JohnFitzgerald]

This is what I try to do and I do agree, without a clip, you'll never know.
I guess I'll have to try and sort that out.

I guess it's as simple as continuing practising and concentrating on what I feel are the issues.
A clip if I can work out a simple way of doing it.

[Skol303]

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1352708561' post='1866256']
I've long thought that I suffered what is best described as poor economy of motion in both my fretting hand and also in my plucking hand.[/quote]

Chop off your fingers at the first knuckle. That should do the trick

Seriously though, I'm in the same boat. My fingers are fairly average length (I guess?) but often find their way around the fretboard with all the dexterity of a swaying drunk.

I've found that the more frustrated I get the more tense my hands become, a kind of vicious cycle that I now consciously try to avoid. I also find that I don't really warm up until at least half an hour or so of playing, after which I find myself more relaxed and fluid. And when it comes to recording I nearly always do my best takes when practicing, rather than actually trying to play well. So state of mind is definitely a factor for me.

Anyway, best of luck with it.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Skol303

[Floyd]

I used to get hung up on this. I always thought I'd got flying fingers but if I think about what my hands are doing, I can't play. I made a video of my hands when playing and found I'd not got a problem. For my left hand I've got a "whichever finger gets there first" technique. The one closest to the fret usually wins so it works for me.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Floyd' timestamp='1352878889' post='1868626']
For my left hand I've got a "whichever finger gets there first" technique. The one closest to the fret usually wins so it works for me.
[/quote]

This, in my opinion, is the right approach... For both hands! If your playing feels comfortable and sounds good, then there's no point in worrying about which finger goes where. Overthinking will be more of an obstacle!

[chris_b]

[quote name='JohnFitzgerald' timestamp='1352708561' post='1866256']
....I've long thought that I suffered what is best described as poor economy of motion....
[/quote]

Is your technique [i]really[/i] causing trouble when you're reaching for notes or playing fast passages or does it just [i]look[/i] awkward?

I started playing softer and with less effort when I turned the volume up and tried to compensate with my playing style.

If you want to pare down your finger movements check out Francis Rocco Prestia. I believe he has a tuition video on YouTube. He hardly moves anything when he's playing. Although his style is pretty unique, so maybe it's not a good example.

[fumps]

I've always struggled with the economy of movement thing. My fingers fly round the fretboard like a spider with a rollerskate on each foot. It's always been shoddy, but if i'm in time & it sounds right then I am playing bass & i'm happy with that

[Kongo]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1352879356' post='1868628']
This, in my opinion, is the right approach... For both hands! If your playing feels comfortable and sounds good, then there's no point in worrying about which finger goes where. Overthinking will be more of an obstacle!
[/quote]

Have to agree. Academic technique doesn't always work for everyone. Look at a load of professional players, some of the most advanced players have technique a schooled tutor would claw his face off over.
As long as you are using all 4 fingers and not ditching one completely I'd say it's fine. Besides, economy of motion is just that. It doesn't mean you have to lock in one place per se. You could play a line in a box position, but the stretches could be crazy. You may need to move your hand up a few positions and back down again. As economy is what you want, moving your hand to make something easier for your fingers should be allowed. Otherwise, yes, your hand has economy but now your fingers are overworked. Follow?

[chris_b]

Pino Paladino has the longest fingers I've ever seen on a bass player. He doesn't believe in less movement in his style. Doesn't hurt him.

All I'd say is just make sure that each note is played evenly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgFFNXahcg

[zero9]

I used to be in the same 'boat'. I'm left handed, playing a right handed bass and also have 'longer than average' fingers.

I started playing scales up and down the neck, generally using the 1 finger per fret system, sometimes 4 fingers to five frets and just focussed on getting a good, clean and even sound. I also used the Nathan East lesson to get all 4 fingers of the left hand working going up and down the strings on frets 1 to 4 (should be on youtube somewhere). Once you start building more speed, you'll find things become more 'effortless'. I have had (rare admittedly) occassions where people have commented on my playing afterwards, saying I made it look 'effortless' and totally comfortable.

It just takes loads of practice . No shortcuts I'm afraid.

[JohnFitzgerald]

I started to practice in front of a mirror, to give the same perspective as someone viewing my playing.
I guess I don't have as much of a left hand issue as I thought I might.

Still not sure about the right hand.

What I did pick up is that the ring finger on my left hand is a bit underused with the pinky seeing far more use.
This is odd as when I'm playing guitar for example, it sees no end of use when playing rythm but then falls slightly into disuse when playing any sort of line. Same on bass, it gets a bit less use than the others. I'm going to concentrate my efforts on that.

47 years old, been playing for about 35 of those years and every day is still a school day.