Hartke Gear- Scooped??

[thumperbob 2002]

Hi All

I have recently purchased a LH1000 and Hydrive 4 x 10. Mega rig- really powerful and warm. Old school heavy amp and pretty light 4 x 10.

On a couple of gigs I find its a little mid scooped for my taste. Actually sounds great but to cut through the band without being ridiculously loud I need a bit more mid punch. These amps have a fender tone stack type of EQ where for flat response Mid is on full ( 10 ), with bass and treble being on 3 . Obviously with both bass and treble full off that is the max mids I am getting. Not enough though and this is my problem. Its the speakers really- very warm and clear but I need more mids.

I can use my basspod as a preamp and get all the mids I need but I am trying to be as simple as poss and the Pod Live XT is simply too big to carry with all my other gear. Does anyone have any ideas- I have a Sadowsky pre amp which is too scooped in any event and a VT bass which has a very simple mid control.

I think I need a small Bass EQ pedal but would like a high quality one- does anyone have any ideas? I really need my tone to be minus 1 from Honky. I use a Fender Jazz with both Pickups on full- prefer that tone to Bridge as I do a bit of slap in each song and dont like the slap tone of the bridge pickup.

Any advice on what I should buy would be great.

Edited October 29, 2012 by thumperbob 2002

[Musicman20]

Didn't you previously use to Schroeder cabs? I imagine that mid punch from the Schroe's is something you got used to.

I think the issue might be the Jazz itself...if you are favouring both pups on full you are creating a mid dip already, then the amp might be slightly scooped unless you set the mids to ten. Not sure about the cab.

It's kinda why I love the Jazz but don't use them as often as say a Ray.

I think there is a an EBS pedal that can help with this issue.

[brensabre79]

Well, the 'both pickups on full' setting on the Jazz is pretty scooped in itself, you could try backing the neck off a little bit. I find it too scooped on mine with both on full and mine's the more middy 70s spacing. Back off the neck PU just a smidge though and the 'both pickups' sound is still there but less boomy

If its a pedal you're after a simple Boss graphic might well do the trick for you, they do one for bass I think its brown.

You could look at getting an East Pre-amp (or the ACG one which is also an East circuit but this is available as a jazz bass control plate, ready wired) for your bass... personally I find the parametric EQ a bit fiddly. But you'll have more mids than you ever need!

I've not tried the LH1000 but I had a Hartke HA3500 and I found the EQ on that to be a bit lacking in sensitivity (you had to be on either max or min to notice any difference and it would kind of jump right at the end of the travel), so it may be something to get used to?

I don't want to be rude about your new rig, but I wonder if its just not the right sounding setup for you?

[thumperbob 2002]

yeah- I`ve had loads of rigs- the Schroeder Cabs are immense ( sold them both when I bought some Ampeg Gear _ Pf500 etc ) The Ampeg gear sounded fantastic through our rig but I needed a bit more power. I think the point of my OP was that I was looking at getting a good small EQ pedal to give me that mid-hump. My Basspod does the job in a terrific way but I feel that I dont need the many great things it does. And its a little on the large size. Lots of songs I do need that slap bass and I dont like slap on the bridge Pickup. No problem for fingerstyle Nos.

[Dood]

I've quickly skimmed the thread - It caught my eye as an avid Hartke'r. It's funny as I found that with my own bass, I had lots of upper mids from the rig but my bass having a slightly subdued lower bass 'bump' meant that I craved a bit more in that region. Actually a simple EQ pedal did the job nicely to boost that region. Interestingly, my passive basses were the opposite and I had too much low mid!

Another thing you could try, that won't break the bank is to use a different preamp valve in the LH. It's a safe operation to change it, similar to changing a lightbulb. Depending on model you can alter the sound of the amp. The great thing that I love about the LH preamp is its simplicity and thus, changing the valve can change the character of it's sound too, sometimes dramatically. My two current favourite valves, both found to be useful for vocal mic preamplifiers are (premium) GE 5751which is a very clear sounding lower gain valve. Mine is some sort of high grade one. I have to say,'a 1958 black plates triple mica' and it gets a quiver from the back row at valve conventions heh - but, my 'chuck it in and sound great' valve is a JJ ECC83S (premium and drive tested). They have a natural bump in the upper mids that really seem to make my Shukers sing - way more so that the more standard Sovtek 12AX7WA (or electoharmonix rebadged version) you find factory fitted in a lot of preamps these days.

If it's a troublesome frequency, then maybe look at a parametric EQ pedal. Boss used to do one as does the likes of Carl Martin among others. this would allow you to accurately pin point that mid bit you want whilst at the same time zoning in on other areas of your tone too. I'd suggest that you could boost a bit around 1Khz - 4 Khz to help you cut through guitar distortion and cymbal sizzle too.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1351521534' post='1852087']
I've quickly skimmed the thread - It caught my eye as an avid Hartke'r. It's funny as I found that with my own bass, I had lots of upper mids from the rig but my bass having a slightly subdued lower bass 'bump' meant that I craved a bit more in that region. Actually a simple EQ pedal did the job nicely to boost that region. Interestingly, my passive basses were the opposite and I had too much low mid!

Another thing you could try, that won't break the bank is to use a different preamp valve in the LH. It's a safe operation to change it, similar to changing a lightbulb. Depending on model you can alter the sound of the amp. The great thing that I love about the LH preamp is its simplicity and thus, changing the valve can change the character of it's sound too, sometimes dramatically. My two current favourite valves, both found to be useful for vocal mic preamplifiers are (premium) GE 5751which is a very clear sounding lower gain valve. Mine is some sort of high grade one. I have to say,'a 1958 black plates triple mica' and it gets a quiver from the back row at valve conventions heh - but, my 'chuck it in and sound great' valve is a JJ ECC83S (premium and drive tested). They have a natural bump in the upper mids that really seem to make my Shukers sing - way more so that the more standard Sovtek 12AX7WA (or electoharmonix rebadged version) you find factory fitted in a lot of preamps these days.

If it's a troublesome frequency, then maybe look at a parametric EQ pedal. Boss used to do one as does the likes of Carl Martin among others. this would allow you to accurately pin point that mid bit you want whilst at the same time zoning in on other areas of your tone too. I'd suggest that you could boost a bit around 1Khz - 4 Khz to help you cut through guitar distortion and cymbal sizzle too.
[/quote]

Interesting post that Dood- I think I`ll look at buying a simple para or graphic EQ- as my Basspod sorts it out nicely, but as I said, is a bit unwieldy- ( esp on smaller stages )!!

[brensabre79]

[url="http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Boss-GEB-7-Bass-Equalizer-Effects-Pedal-with-FREE-Pro-Yarn-Cable/MZS"]This[/url] is the one I was on about, its not brown though

[gjones]

[quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1351515999' post='1851987']
Hi All

I have recently purchased a LH1000 and Hydrive 4 x 10. Mega rig- really powerful and warm. Old school heavy amp and pretty light 4 x 10.

On a couple of gigs I find its a little mid scooped for my taste. Actually sounds great but to cut through the band without being ridiculously loud I need a bit more mid punch. These amps have a fender tone stack type of EQ where for flat response Mid is on full ( 10 ), with bass and treble being on 3 . Obviously with both bass and treble full off that is the max mids I am getting. Not enough though and this is my problem. Its the speakers really- very warm and clear but I need more mids.

I can use my basspod as a preamp and get all the mids I need but I am trying to be as simple as poss and the Pod Live XT is simply too big to carry with all my other gear. Does anyone have any ideas- I have a Sadowsky pre amp which is too scooped in any event and a VT bass which has a very simple mid control.

I think I need a small Bass EQ pedal but would like a high quality one- does anyone have any ideas? I really need my tone to be minus 1 from Honky. I use a Fender Jazz with both Pickups on full- prefer that tone to Bridge as I do a bit of slap in each song and dont like the slap tone of the bridge pickup.

Any advice on what I should buy would be great.
[/quote]

I have the Boss graphic equaliser and bought it for the same reason. It's excellent and unobtrusive too. Beringer do a version as well for around £20 which is basically a boss copy.

edit : although I have to say that once I figured out the parametric EQ on my MiBass I've not need to use it as much. Now I tend to use it to even out the sound in dodgy sounding venues.

Edited October 29, 2012 by gjones

[Dood]

The GLX / Harley Benton 'boss-alike' Graphic Pedal is a clone too - rumour has it made in the same factory with the same components. for £20, it was a bargain and works well on my own board. Think Thomann stock them.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1351524596' post='1852140']
The GLX / Harley Benton 'boss-alike' Graphic Pedal is a clone too - rumour has it made in the same factory with the same components. for £20, it was a bargain and works well on my own board. Think Thomann stock them.
[/quote]

Yup - a few resellers have an 'own brand' brand - thomann have harley benton listed as a 'major retailer', http://www.thomann.de/ie/harley_benton.html

[thumperbob 2002]

I have ordered a Hb GEQ1 from Thomanns. Its the least I have paid for a pedal for a long time- about £30. Will report with findings!!

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1351518921' post='1852050']
I think the issue might be the Jazz itself...if you are favouring both pups on full you are creating a mid dip already, then the amp might be slightly scooped unless you set the mids to ten. Not sure about the cab.

It's kinda why I love the Jazz but don't use them as often as say a Ray.
[/quote]

Exactly my experience.

Also, getting used to the less flattering sound of a non-scooped sound took me a little while when I went Barefaced. I found the Hartke cabs too be culprit rather than the amp. They were very good but my sound gets less lost now with the same or lower volume.

[brensabre79]

You might have been better with the BEQ-1 as its got the lower frequencies in for bass guitars... too late to swap?

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1351593201' post='1852925']
You might have been better with the BEQ-1 as its got the lower frequencies in for bass guitars... too late to swap?
[/quote]

Yup - these are the links:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_beq1.htm
but I can't seem to find a GEQ1. .. .???
there is a http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eq100.htm

[hamfist]

What you need ( if you have the cash) is an EWS BMC (Bass Mids Control) pedal. Tiny, ultra low noise, and very high quality. Costs about £140 but real quality does not come cheap. Thoroughly musical pedal which will solve all your issues and life problems too ! and recommended by me !!

[Alien]

Don't know about the LH1000, but having looked at the schematics I can say that the HA series has a fixed mid scoop on the tube input channel, basically a Fender tone stack without the pots.

A

[Dood]

[quote name='Alien' timestamp='1351679228' post='1853990']
Don't know about the LH1000, but having looked at the schematics I can say that the HA series has a fixed mid scoop on the tube input channel, basically a Fender tone stack without the pots.

A
[/quote]

Yup that's true, the HA does - the LH is a Fender/Alembic a-like so has the 'scoop' programmed in when all the controls are pointing upward (as described in a previous post) - So it'll do flat, or a small mid bum in extreme settings but if the bass and cab both have scoops in their responses then it'll cancel out any mid boost from the amp.

[4 Strings]

Rather than buying more eq to lay upon eq why not consider the bass/amp/cab combination that suits you?

As one who likes to keep things simple and normally play with everything flat I would find having all these gadgets to get my 'normal' sound rather irritating.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1351762952' post='1854973']
Rather than buying more eq to lay upon eq why not consider the bass/amp/cab combination that suits you?

As one who likes to keep things simple and normally play with everything flat I would find having all these gadgets to get my 'normal' sound rather irritating.
[/quote]

I can relate to that - My GK mb fusion has a decent EQ section, but I have to push up the mids and cut lows and highs a little just to get it flat - it works but I wish it was flat when flat!
That said I really like the sound of the preamp, even if I can't get it to sound exactly as I want without playing with it for a bit.
I'm still not used to the two channel thing (that and there's just one static EQ section between them) which may be a factor.

[thumperbob 2002]

Well I had the Harley Benton BEQ-1 delivered yesterday ( ordered the correct one- just couldnt remember the name for it. ) Medal framed pedal- sliders look a little fragile- but it was £27 delivered so cant really complain.

Took it to a gig yesterday night and with quite a mid boost- very unhappy face on this EQ- got the sound I was looking for- very warm- cut through brilliantly- I am in a 7 piece- quite loud Soul/ Funk group. I recorded the gig on my Zoom H2- bass sounded absolutely superb. Very low and deep but defined with a great brightness at the high end when needed. I do agree with the previous posts in that the Hydrive cab seems to be very scooped, much more than the amp. However these cabs have massive headroom and power and can be very bright and therefore cut through very well. That is what I wanted when I purchased this rig. Now I have the control I need this rig is a keeper- until another onset of GAS.

I think the only downside of this rig is that the amp is a little heavy- esp when compared to my Markbass LM2 ( which actually sounds similar to the Hartke through this cab when flat. The cab is surprisingly light for a 4 x 10 so I suppose that makes up for it.

[thumperbob 2002]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1351668867' post='1853862']
What you need ( if you have the cash) is an EWS BMC (Bass Mids Control) pedal. Tiny, ultra low noise, and very high quality. Costs about £140 but real quality does not come cheap. Thoroughly musical pedal which will solve all your issues and life problems too ! and recommended by me !!
[/quote]

That looks fantastic-the only problem I can see when compared with a Graphic EQ or full range parametric is to cure a boomy room the answer would be to reduce the lows and the low frequencies only. Would this give you that control. Love the size of the thing.