davehux Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Up until now, my involvement with our band's PA has been to hump the thing around and connect the cables together. Now, our KB player and drummer are complaining about the monitors we use and how they can't hear anything. We have 4 Celestion wedges - 2 powered and 2 slaves, which are daisy chained from a single 1/4" monitor socket on the PA desk. They say they want a single big speaker to share. My question - does the monitor output from the desk need to be fed into a powered speaker i.e it's a low output that needs to be amplified, or could I plug it straight into a 115 bass cab that I have? Be gentle!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Desk output needs to go to an amp or powered monitor. If you have 2 powered sources you can get two mixes from that IF your desk will support that....or if not, can you use an aux channel..?? I would suggest splitting the two mixes for lead vox and front of stage...and the keys and drums get the second mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Will the drummer and keyboard player be able to site the single large speaker so they can both hear it effectively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I'm still learning about stage monitoring and it seems to me to be more tricky than the FoH PA. it's almost a case of getting the stage monitoring set up first before worrying about the main PA. it sounds like you have a pretty good set of monitors and I'd be concerned that replacing them with a single big monitor would make matters worse. With our 'full PA', I drive two sets of monitors from the pre-fade aux outputs. This allows each set to have a different mix, which can be useful, as JYUK mentioned above. Do you let the keys player and drummer adjust their own monitor volumes or try to control everything from the desk? As you have active monitors, you should be able to set the monitor output very high at the desk and let them set the volume as they wish. Keep the monitors very close to them to minimise spill. I've also tried using a spare bass combo as a monitor for the drummer, letting him control the volume settings, with reasonable success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='davehux' timestamp='1350652037' post='1841799'] They say they want a single big speaker to share. [/quote]Bad idea. Hearing the monitors means hearing the mids and highs. Mids and highs are very directional, so each player needs their own to be in the 'sweet spot'. Hearing them also means a good EQ dedicated to the monitors is mandatory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehux Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Our desk does have 2 aux outputs, so perhaps splitting it between vox/guitar and keys/drums might be the answer. I also have a 'spare' GK150 combo which I could give them instead of the wedges, then they've got their own tone control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1350655359' post='1841861'] I'm still learning about stage monitoring and it seems to me to be more tricky than the FoH PA. it's almost a case of getting the stage monitoring set up first before worrying about the main PA. ...................... [/quote] ALWAYS set up mon mixes without hinderance from FOH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Glad to hear I'm on the right track! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehux Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 ..and I'm now heading in the right direction to get on the right track - thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOD2 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Best advice for monitoring is to try and position each monitor so that points to the players ears (as opposed to his/her knees) as best as is practical. That way you're making most effective use of the sound available rather than wasting it muddying up the stage sound. Keep the monitors set as low as you can manage with - more sound on the stage just makes it harder to hear everything. If you're monitoring the player's vocal microphone, then make use of the "polar pattern" of the mic when positioning the monitor e.g. a cardoid pattern mic is LEAST sensitive to sound direct;y behind the mic, so place the monitor here to minimise spill of sound from the monitor into the mic thus reducing feedback. Always use careful positioning of monitors to help reduce problems before you resort to other methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 ^+1 I'll add, if you can, and especially for vocals, try and get a graphic EQ between the desk and the amp for the monitors, you can get rid of feedback and resonant frequencies with ease and clean the whole mix onstage up loads. This should be completely independent from the FOH. I'd also say, if your drummer and KB want to share a mix, this is fine but they should each have a wedge pointing at them or they will just start complaining that either the monitor is too quiet, or everyone else is too loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 [quote name='davehux' timestamp='1350657395' post='1841899'] Our desk does have 2 aux outputs, [/quote] You need 2 pre-fader aux outputs, one for each mix. A post-fader aux output is not much use for a monitor mix because it changes when you adjust the FOH faders. Many small desks, such as the little Behringers, have one of each so you can only run one monitor mix. If I were you I would resist giving them the ability to turn it up themselves, because when it gets too loud in a small venue it can start to interfere with the level of the FOH mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Hi there, we don't have a KB player but our drummer outputs from his Roland kit into channel 1, (gain control set & left at about 12 o'clock as this affects the line out level to the mixer), of his Roland KC-150. This is on a stand so faces him directly. He controls the master volume of the KC-150, (this does not effect the line out level). A line out for drums goes to the mixer & hence FOH. The FOH mix, minus drums & bass are fed back from AUX 2 to Channel 4, (own gain control), on the KC-150. Channel 4 is a dedicated monitor channel & is not output to the line out. He has full control of what he hears & adjusts the mix of drums to FOH, & his mix volume level as he prefers. This arrangement would also work for keyboard. Edited October 21, 2012 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehux Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just back from our first gig since posting this. I split the monitors keys/drums and guitar/vox. They could then get them positioned much better - pointing at their heads - and have independent levels. The keys player said it was the first time he'd been able to hear his own singing!! FOH nice and clear. Everyone happy and mega brownie point to yours truly for sorting it out :-) Basschatters - you're the best. Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Excellent. And you deserve the brownie points because you took the initiative to find the answers. Thanks for posting the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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