pietruszka Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hey, With unfortunate events last year and various body matter hitting fans and such, I have manage to secure my dad's old bass. I was very fearful of losing this prized possession and I'm relieved to now have it. I have done a little hunting on the web to find more about it, it turns out my dad's Aria Pro II is an Elite II Black 'n' Gold. There doesn't seem to be too many of these things around either. Ill admit it needs some work to it, the finger board is lifting a little and needs a splodge of glue under it, and the electrics are a tad on the iffy side! I did plug it in to my amp, tuned a whole string down on each string to put less strain on the neck what with the finger board thing. Wow! It sounds fantastic! So full and punchy. It will get restored as best I can get it and it will be gigged hopefully to. Does any one know much about these? Ill get some pictures up as soon as I can. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Good Matsumoku/Aria/Westone/etc resource. [url="http://www.matsumoku.org/guitars.html"]http://www.matsumoku.org/guitars.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Cheers skybone. I had a look, and theres not a great deal more info on there, I searched the forum and haven't found out anything more really. Things like they're popularity back in the day and such, I came across something about Cliff Burton using the standard elite II. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Noelk27 is pretty up on Matsumoku made Arias. I'm sure he'll chip in soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) The Black & Gold was the US name for what was called the Elite here so it is similar to the bass Cliff used just of the two pickup variety. These pages from the previously mentioned resource should cover most of what is known. http://www.matsumoku.org/models/ariaproii/bass/sb/sb.html http://www.matsumoku.org/models/ariaproii/bass/bg/bg_bass.html Edited January 9, 2012 by simwells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2000 Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I'm sure these John Player Specials were in production for quite a long time - as Aria's of that era there are certainly rarer models. Give Noelk27 a shout and he'll probably be able to look up the production years in his catalogue archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I did a lot of work on a SB-80 a few years back which is similar enough to what you have. That you're experiencing trouble with the electrics is a worry. In my experience the pickups sound great but fail easily. They're humbuckers, the coil runs the full length of the pickups but there are pole pieces only under the E and A strings on one coil, the other coil only has poles for the D and G strings. The two switches run each pickups as serial and parallel. If you're finding that you're losing sound by switching to serial, a dead coil is most likely your problem. If you tap on the pickup covers with a screwdriver in parallel mode you should be able to find out if one side of the pickup is dead pretty easily. Aaron Armstrong (son of Kent) makes replacement pickups (working originals are nearly impossible to find second hand) but, in my experience, they sound nothing like the original Aria pickups. The Aria pickup is bright and punchy, the Armstrong pickup much darker sounding. I ended up trading a working Aria pickup for another Armstrong pickup just to have a pair which sounded alike and would work with each other. The other guy also had a failed Aria pickup and had bought an Armstrong replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='simwells' timestamp='1326136687' post='1492818']The Black & Gold was the US name for what was called the Elite here so it is similar to the bass Cliff used just of the two pickup variety.[/quote] No, the Black 'n' Gold (to give it its correct name) was first introduced for the Japanese market. At the time solid black was not a standard colour for Aria's premium ranges, so black was introduced to the PE and SB ranges with these special models. The first SB Black 'n' Gold was a version of the R60, named the Black 'n' Gold I, and first appeared in the Aria catalogue in '83. At the time of launch a standard R60 retailed for Y60,000, with the Black 'n' Gold version retailing for Y65,000. A factory Black 'n' Gold version featured a cast bridge with a black coating and saddles and assemblies with a gold coating, and a gold-coated truss rod cover. Otherwise, these versions were identical to the standard models. Black 'n' Gold versions should not be confused with later standard gold models, which can be identified by the standard gold-coated bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Still got the dead pickup? Know what failed? Are they wax or epoxy potted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have no idea if they're wax or epoxy. As for whats failed, the pickups are working, and it appears the its the knobs and such that are going. The 2 switches which I think are series/parallel switches work except for the bridge pickup, it behaves like a kill switch, the tone controls seem to work but cant be sure as the dials are spinning on the pots, and the volume for the bridge pickup seems to be quieter than the other. The pick up selector works though! How would I know if they are waxed or epoxied? Im not electrically minded with basses or anything for that matter, I just play them. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 They're expoxied. And there's no way you'll get through it without destroying the pickup... I've tried It sounds like your bridge pickup has a dead coil. When you put the switch into series it has to run through the dead coil and your sound disappears. When you run through parallel one coil gets through but I'll bet if you play it you'll notice either your E or G string is much, much quieter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 The string volumes don't seem to be any different, only that the bridge pick up is quieter than the neck one. I think it may just be the switches and knobs surrounding it, it'll be hard for any of you to see hear without having the bass in front of you. Theres an excellent tech in Newcastle I'm going to try, he serviced my StingRay and did an incredible job. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Try tapping both sides of the bridge pickup with a screwdriver or something metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Does the "lose of volume" you're describing occur when the two mini toggle switches are in the forward positions and the pickup selector switch is set in the mid position (front and rear pickups combined), but not with other settings/combinations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 From what I remember it doesn't make any difference, I'll be home later and have another play about with it. I shall report back! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 Right! When I tap on the pickups with something metal nothing seems to happen, but the pickups are working, because I can play the bass with sound coming through the amp. When the toggle switches are forward (down), only the bridge pick up works, when they're both back (up) both pick ups work. When the selector is on the neck pick up, it works providing the toggle switch is up and just described. I hope this sheds light as to whats happening. The input is very much appreciated! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) It really sounds like it's your neck pickup, dead coil as described above. I had exactly the same problem. If you're lucky one of the pickup wires has come loose from the switch. I'm surprised you didn't hear a loud pop noise when you tapped the pickup with a screwdriver. Your pickup is set up like this under the blank top If you tap on the neck pickup where the pole pieces are while it's in parallel mode (ie when you can hear a signal through your amp), you should notice one side makes a loud noise through the amp when you tap, the other much quieter. This should confirm a dead coil, Edited January 17, 2012 by Doctor J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Right, iv done as you suggested. Yep one side is dead. So where does that leave me? What are the options? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I couldn't find anyone selling a working original, so I ended up buying a pickup from Aaron Armstrong (son of Kent) who seems to be the only one making pickups that size. You may end up looking for a set of pickups, to be honest, Aaron's one didn't sound like the original and it and the remaining original didn't work as a pair. Maybe keep an eye on ebay and the likes for a while to see if an original shows up before commiting to a new pickup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I will do thanks! If you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for your Armstrong pick ups? PM me if you'd prefer. Thanks for all the help everyone, its very much appreciated! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatEric Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1326486852' post='1498019'] The string volumes don't seem to be any different, only that the bridge pick up is quieter than the neck one. I think it may just be the switches and knobs surrounding it, it'll be hard for any of you to see hear without having the bass in front of you. Theres an excellent tech in Newcastle I'm going to try, he serviced my StingRay and did an incredible job. Dan [/quote] Just spotted this. I think all of what has been said is good advice. Not sure if this is worth anything but here goes. . . . I have two Aria Elite, with the same set up as the one you refer to. The bridge pick-up on both doesn't kick out as much Umph as the neck. On the bridge only, are you getting an equal sound over all the strings, just not as loud as the other pick-up? As you have tapped the pick-up, as you described, it may be duff but there is a volume difference on mine, which is the same as two others I have played. Got any pics of the beast? Cheers. Just read one of your posts again - odd when both switches down!! Err, I'll get me coat!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='FlatEric' timestamp='1326906539' post='1503583'] Just spotted this. I think all of what has been said is good advice. Not sure if this is worth anything but here goes. . . . I have two Aria Elite, with the same set up as the one you refer to. The bridge pick-up on both doesn't kick out as much Umph as the neck. On the bridge only, are you getting an equal sound over all the strings, just not as loud as the other pick-up? Got any pics of the beast? Cheers. Just read one of your posts again - odd when both switches down!! Err, I'll get me coat!! [/quote] Exactly that but it does appear to be a bit dead as the other chatters have pointed out. I'll get picks in as soon as I get my camera back! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='FlatEric' timestamp='1326906539' post='1503583']Just read one of your posts again - odd when both switches down!! [/quote] It was me that mentioned the two "dual sound" switches. In the owner manual that accompanied the SB-R80 (the predecessor of the Elite II) in Japan, it notes that the "phase" switch is only "effective" when the pickup selector is in the "centre" ("Front + Rear") position. If you engage the "phase" switch when the pickup selector is in the "Front" or "Rear"position you suffer a lose of output signal strength. Similarly, if you engage both "dual sound" switches (the manual refers to the other as a "Sprit" switch) then you similarly suffer a loss of output, but this is not as noticeable overall, as you're running the bass in single coil mode, and with the phase setting affecting the out, as opposed to in mode. I've known people, not familiar with the design of a two pickup SB, to mistake this characteristic for faulty pickups/preamps/wiring/etc. Seemed worth mentioning as the OP was new to playing an SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1326894769' post='1503323']I ended up buying a pickup from Aaron Armstrong ... who seems to be the only one making pickups that size.[/quote] Alembic AXY. Perfect fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1326929562' post='1504070'] Alembic AXY. Perfect fit. [/quote] Yeah, they're listed at $1,100! http://alembic.stores.yahoo.net/axybtacpic.html They must sound amazing for that amount of bread. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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