Jase Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Ello, We've recently had a few gigs cancelled at very short notice which is a complete pain as I'm sure most of you know. The usual excuses come up, " we've been trying to get hold of you for a fortnight" We lost your number" "Your web link doesn't work" etc, etc. What I'd like to try and find out is this: Can bands draw up a contract which states if a venue/promoter cancels at too short notice a fee will have to be paid in order to cover loss of earnings, we'd be interested to know if anyone here uses such a contract/agreement. I'm talking about the usual sort of Rock covers bands that gig the pubs, clubs outdoor events, etc. Jase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 (edited) There is a standard MU contract that covers this. As I recall there is a sliding scale dependent upon the length of time between cancelation and schedueld gig. I have received payment for cancelled gigs several times on this basis. Edited March 17, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Yes the MU contract covers your ass.... but I would suggest you have your own drawn up. My function band has such a contract, though we do have a policy of taking a deposit for gigs. Then all fee's have to be paid in full 7 days before the actual date of the gig. That way you have your money before you play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='158887' date='Mar 17 2008, 12:58 PM']There is a standard MU contract that covers this. As I recall there is a sliding scale dependent upon the length of time between cancelation and schedueld gig. I have received payment for cancelled gigs several times on this basis.[/quote] Maybe it's time to look into membership. Also wondered about getting one drawn up by a solicitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I agree with all the responses above, but I fear last-minute cancellations come with the territory when you're gigging in pubs. Getting a landlord to sign anything might be a bit tricky. Worth trying, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 17, 2008 Author Share Posted March 17, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='158903' date='Mar 17 2008, 01:24 PM']I agree with all the responses above, but I fear last-minute cancellations come with the territory when you're gigging in pubs. Getting a landlord to sign anything might be a bit tricky. Worth trying, though...[/quote] You're dead right there, maybe we'd have to settle for a verbal agreement (who am I trying to kid?) What's that saying???? "It's tough at the top but a damn sight harder at the bottom" well I think it's a saying anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 Might scare off some of your pub gigs Jase, or reduce your repeat er bookings, or let doens .. Crez is in a totally different market if I remember correctly, the one where the fee ends in "thousand" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 20, 2008 Author Share Posted March 20, 2008 [quote name='OldGit' post='161120' date='Mar 20 2008, 09:29 PM']Might scare off some of your pub gigs Jase, or reduce your repeat er bookings, or let doens .. Crez is in a totally different market if I remember correctly, the one where the fee ends in "thousand" [/quote] Hi Si, Yeah, since spoke to the guitarist (his band by the way) while he agrees with my complaint he too says that it would probably do more damage in the long run, I still think it's wrong though, a couple of weeks notice or to move the date is fine if they need to but when it's a couple of nights notice to cancel it's quite difficult to replace the gigs. Never mind one day it'll be all different, pay to play will be illegal and cover bands will get some sort of fee recovery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delberthot Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 (edited) With the wedding band we take a deposit on booking which can be anything from a few weeks to a couple of years to the actual booking but with my pub rock band its seat of the pants get paid on the night or torch the place type of gig. Edited March 21, 2008 by Delberthot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironside1966 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 If you are very popular band and make the venue a lot more money then any of the other bands, you might just get a way with asking for a contract. If they cancel or let you down and the gig is still worth having, ask them for a couple more dates and or a bit more money next time as compensation, just hope the don’t cancel the new dates. Even working through Agents you still tent to lose out, although you stand a better chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='161210' date='Mar 20 2008, 11:55 PM']Hi Si, Yeah, since spoke to the guitarist (his band by the way) while he agrees with my complaint he too says that it would probably do more damage in the long run, I still think it's wrong though, a couple of weeks notice or to move the date is fine if they need to but when it's a couple of nights notice to cancel it's quite difficult to replace the gigs. Never mind one day it'll be all different, pay to play will be illegal and cover bands will get some sort of fee recovery [/quote] Ha ha yeah ... Don't get me started on that again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Delberthot' post='161215' date='Mar 21 2008, 12:03 AM']With the wedding band we take a deposit on booking which can be anything from a few weeks to a couple of years to the actual booking but with my pub rock band its seat of the pants get paid on the night or torch the place type of gig. I am the great cornholio. I need TP for my bumholio,raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa[/quote] Yeah Weddings and functions are totally different. Everyone needs to know things will happen, the band will show up and teh event will still happen .. Pub gigs it's not so important from either side .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 One thing to consider is that a contract works both ways. We've all had to cancel gigs (singers got a sore throat/guitarist has a poorly ickle finger) and a venue would have as much right to claim loss of earnings from you! You might think that's far fetched but I know of a band that it happened to. They took all their bookings on the basis that a Landlord signed the contract with a sliding scale for cancellations (worked in their favour more than once) but on one occasion the main man in the band took ill and cancelled a gig at very short notice. The following week he received a request for compensation as the landlord had to pay extra to get a band at short notice... he paid. Failure to do so would have resulted in a small claims judgement and/or a very bad reputation. You have been warned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='161571' date='Mar 21 2008, 08:34 PM']One thing to consider is that a contract works both ways. We've all had to cancel gigs (singers got a sore throat/guitarist has a poorly ickle finger) and a venue would have as much right to claim loss of earnings from you! You might think that's far fetched but I know of a band that it happened to. They took all their bookings on the basis that a Landlord signed the contract with a sliding scale for cancellations (worked in their favour more than once) but on one occasion the main man in the band took ill and cancelled a gig at very short notice. The following week he received a request for compensation as the landlord had to pay extra to get a band at short notice... he paid. Failure to do so would have resulted in a small claims judgement and/or a very bad reputation. You have been warned [/quote] If a gig has to be cancelled at short notice a band can always offer to get another act in to cover the cancellation, I think most venues would be satisfied with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='161582' date='Mar 21 2008, 09:06 PM']If a gig has to be cancelled at short notice a band can always offer to get another act in to cover the cancellation, I think most venues would be satisfied with that.[/quote] If my band has ever cancelled a gig that's what we always offer to do. In this instance the band in question couldn't get anyone (they tried us among others) so had to resort to just cancelling. With regard to whether a venue is satisfied; I suppose that depends on the venue, how often bands dump on them and whether bands are walking in asking them to sign contracts with penalty clauses built in to compensate the band in the event of a cancellation... Lets be fair, bands are quick to cry 'hard done by' when gigs get cancelled but I know plenty of bands that don't give it a second thought when they ditch gigs. As musicians we can't expect venues to agree to such contracts if we aren't going to work it the other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='161607' date='Mar 21 2008, 10:02 PM']If my band has ever cancelled a gig that's what we always offer to do. In this instance the band in question couldn't get anyone (they tried us among others) so had to resort to just cancelling. With regard to whether a venue is satisfied; I suppose that depends on the venue, how often bands dump on them and whether bands are walking in asking them to sign contracts with penalty clauses built in to compensate the band in the event of a cancellation... Lets be fair, bands are quick to cry 'hard done by' when gigs get cancelled but I know plenty of bands that don't give it a second thought when they ditch gigs. As musicians we can't expect venues to agree to such contracts if we aren't going to work it the other way.[/quote] I agree, there are plenty of bands that cancel (without offering to replace the act), or just don't bother to turn up, you couldn't expect a venue to compensate a band with that sort of attitude. It's more to do with established bands, those that earn a living from it, reliable bands that have played the venues many times, when it's turned on them, a night or two before the dates get cancelled, surely it's a reasonable request to ask for some form of compensation but I see your point of working it the other way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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