Truckstop Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Could someone explain to me, very simply and slowly, the process behind bi-amping and blending please? With some examples too? I hear the terms bandied around a bit here and they seem to be interchangeable, but this thread has shown me that clearly they're not! I think I have an idea but it's probably wrong. Cheers anyone! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) [quote name='fretmeister' post='1346165' date='Aug 20 2011, 10:54 AM']2 amps works way better than a blend. I've done both. Most of my basses have 2 outputs so I can control each side volume from the bass (like the Yamaha Attitude bass / Rickenbackers etc), but I have a custom buffered split box for when I use a single output bass. Rig of Doom Version 1. Two amp heads and pedals. Rig of Doom Version 2: Two preamps. Each feeding one side of the power amp. Actually the preamps in version 2 (Ampeg SVP-BSP and Line6 Pod XT Pro) are both capcable of splitting their own signals with a clean blend. So technically it was a 4 sound blend. I've never had a rhythm guitarist in a band!!! I'm currently building version 3.[/quote] Next time i'm in Northamptonshire (thats where my Grandparents live!) I'm building a small alter outside your home and worshiping your rig of all mighty power, completed with the A Red Yamaha Attitude I (I have epic Yamaha ATT GAS but the Bank says no! haha My 25th Anniversary look so lonely...) Not that thats wierd or anything In all seriousness though, your rig is like my ideal rig, and you had a Bongo 6HH so we have identical tastes Edited August 20, 2011 by AttitudeCastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Version 3 is under way - It will be... Clean side: Mark Bass LM3 and Hartke Hydrive 410 and a compressor (not decided yet) Dirty side: Hartke LH500 and Hartke Hydrive 410. and pedals Going back to pedals for the FX purely for simplicity and ease of swapping. I'm a pedal junkie. That being said the PODXT is an amazing bit of kit if you bin the presets and start from scratch. Compression is vital. Clean and affected tones decay so differently that even if you don't like compression you need it to make the attack and decay the same otherwise it doesn't sound like One instrument. I change compressors a lot, but often just use a pair of Marshal ED1 pedals. They are very good in this sort of set up. I have the Dirty side in the house already. But I need money for the clean side!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I haven't had that Yamaha for ages. I loved it, but it was very neck heavy so it had to go. My 2 Status Energy have been modded for extra pickups and outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 [quote name='fretmeister' post='1346247' date='Aug 20 2011, 12:06 PM']I haven't had that Yamaha for ages. I loved it, but it was very neck heavy so it had to go. My 2 Status Energy have been modded for extra pickups and outputs.[/quote] Ah well! The rig is still beautiful And thats pretty cool! Are those 2 Hartke "Big boy" 212s in the picture? The version 2 is a monster, and the dirty side of the version 3 sounds like it will be too! What drive are you going to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The dirty side will actually blend a couple of drive pedals using some boss ls2. Deffo a Metal Muff as the eq is so powerful, and probably a Marshall jackhammer. There will also be a digitech bass synth wah in a 3rd loop so that can be blended with the drives for when I want muse sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 DOOOOOOMMMM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='fretmeister' post='1346165' date='Aug 20 2011, 10:54 AM']2 amps works way better than a blend. I've done both.[/quote] But you are using two full range bass rigs, rather than using a guitar rig on a crossover. If I could afford to double my rig, I would probably run half of it clean with a bit of compression like you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTFS Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='fretmeister' post='1346165' date='Aug 20 2011, 10:54 AM']Rig of Doom Version 1. Two amp heads and pedals. [/quote] It doesn't really matter much [i]what[/i] you do with your bass tone if you're gonna mic it up with two vocal mics that are pointing at the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='TomTFS' post='1347903' date='Aug 22 2011, 12:26 PM']It doesn't really matter much [i]what[/i] you do with your bass tone if you're gonna mic it up with two vocal mics that are pointing at the floor. [/quote] Actually, that was after a day of arsing about trying to record. That worked excellently - much better than the "accepted knowledge" approach. Best recorded bass tone I've ever got. I'll find a clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='cheddatom' post='1347745' date='Aug 22 2011, 08:30 AM']But you are using two full range bass rigs, rather than using a guitar rig on a crossover. If I could afford to double my rig, I would probably run half of it clean with a bit of compression like you're doing.[/quote] I don't like cross-overs. I think they sound "fake" or "Disjointed" at the cross-over point. I much prefer to EQ instead. The Marshall cabs / Hartke & Ashdown head version (mk1) was pretty cheap. Used cabs at £200 each; HA3500 at about £180; Ashdown at (IIRC) £230 - so about £810. Not "cheap" but a sh*t load less than it could be. Of if you want to get really basic - get the cabs, a couple of used Sansamps (as preamps) and a used PA poweramp. Doesn't have to be expensive, but your back will hate you forever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='Truckstop' post='1346200' date='Aug 20 2011, 11:30 AM']Could someone explain to me, very simply and slowly, the process behind bi-amping and blending please? With some examples too? I hear the terms bandied around a bit here and they seem to be interchangeable, but this thread has shown me that clearly they're not! I think I have an idea but it's probably wrong. Cheers anyone! Truckstop[/quote] I can't give you examples, but the basic principal is that blending splits the signal so that two different signal chains can be used e.g. One clean, one dirty, but they'll both go back to the same amp. Ultimately if two signals are going through the same power amp and speakers, they'll interact to an extent. Bi amping means the same thing but instead of going back into one amp, it goes to two. There's no interaction between signals until it's out of the speakers and it gives you the choice to use different gear for both signals. Gear can contain internal versions of both, e.g. The blowtorch has a blend control that let's you let through some dry and wet signal and GK artist series heads have bi-amping. They're slightly different though in that there's not really a choice between different sets of fx on the blowtorch, it's a mix of wet and dry and the GK bi-amping is woofers and tweeters rather than using two pre-amps and two different cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='fretmeister' post='1347919' date='Aug 22 2011, 12:41 PM']Actually, that was after a day of arsing about trying to record. That worked excellently - much better than the "accepted knowledge" approach. Best recorded bass tone I've ever got. I'll find a clip.[/quote] Well suit yourself. All i would say is that it's quite interesting how you take such a methodical approach to making sure you get 2 distinct tones from each bass amp, and yet you're recording them in exactly the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 When I play live I have a guitar amp for the top end and have this mic'd, and a DI out of my bass amp. I'd always recorded in this way until I got lazy one day and DI'd straight from my pedalboard. It's never sounded better. So now, I take a dry signal just for clean very very low end, and then a full range signal from my pedalboard (which has a bit of clean blending going on) and it's the best sound i've ever had, and way easier than position mics etc. [quote name='fretmeister' post='1347931' date='Aug 22 2011, 12:48 PM']I don't like cross-overs. I think they sound "fake" or "Disjointed" at the cross-over point. I much prefer to EQ instead.[/quote] I wasn't criticising! It's just that we were talking about using guitar amps to create dirt for the top end only and it doesn't look like you're using a guitar amp? IME they're very different voiced to bass amps giving you much more high mids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='cheddatom' post='1348033' date='Aug 22 2011, 02:23 PM']I wasn't criticising! It's just that we were talking about using guitar amps to create dirt for the top end only and it doesn't look like you're using a guitar amp? IME they're very different voiced to bass amps giving you much more high mids.[/quote] Have you by any chance got this thread mixed up with the following?: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=150527"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=150527[/url] Edited August 22, 2011 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1348052' date='Aug 22 2011, 03:04 PM']You've got the wrong thread [/quote] HAHA I have indeed. What a mook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='EdwardHimself' post='1347994' date='Aug 22 2011, 01:38 PM']Well suit yourself. All i would say is that it's quite interesting how you take such a methodical approach to making sure you get 2 distinct tones from each bass amp, and yet you're recording them in exactly the same way?[/quote] I was aiming for a clear uncoloured signal so the amps record as they sound in the room. It was methodical. Hours and hours with stands, measuring distances etc to record 5 bass lines! One of the tunes: [url="http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=3919041&q=hi&newref=1"]http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_pl...hi&newref=1[/url] Was all recorded as a band, only the guitar solos were re-done. Vocal is a bit ropy in places. Bass is pretty clean there, I'll see if I can find one of the proper dirt / clean split ones too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 [quote name='fretmeister' post='1348120' date='Aug 22 2011, 04:15 PM']I was aiming for a clear uncoloured signal so the amps record as they sound in the room. It was methodical. Hours and hours with stands, measuring distances etc to record 5 bass lines! One of the tunes: [url="http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=3919041&q=hi&newref=1"]http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_pl...hi&newref=1[/url] Was all recorded as a band, only the guitar solos were re-done. Vocal is a bit ropy in places. Bass is pretty clean there, I'll see if I can find one of the proper dirt / clean split ones too.[/quote] It certainly sounds like it came straight out of the practice room, so in that respect you got what you wanted. Personally not a fan of that sort of sound at all but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It was a "warts and all" CD to give to pubs to get gigs. Wanted it to sound as it would in their pub. Did the trick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.