My 2nd attempt at DAW

[Ou7shined]

I thought I post a follow up to my [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=99572&hl=ou7shined"]first attempt[/url] thread.

I found myself with some time and inclination the last couple of days so I decided to work on this simple guitar loop I'd been noodling along to on my Korg PX4D.

bass = homemade G&L inspired bass ([url="http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/ou7shined/Lofa%20bass/Lofa-bass-35.jpg"]seen here[/url]) - single coil mode for the main riff and series humbucker w/ omg mode for the ascending bass line
guitar = homemade bitsa Strat with G&L Legacy Special pups and PTB Tone circuit
drums = Addictive Drums (demo version)
additional content lifted off Radio 4... no really

All guitars went > Korg PX4D > Line6 UX2 > laptop - and were recorded live in Reaper.
(I think it actually took me longer to reinstall the UX2 on my laptop than it did to lay down the tracks )

I have lyrics and a melody (and more layer ideas) to put down but I quite like this short instrumental version too (as mentioned in the other thread my vocals aren't great ).



[attachment=83816:Pretty_Things.mp3]

I've never created drum tracks (or anything else for that matter) using MIDI before, so last night was a baptism of fire. I had no idea what I was doing but stumbled a bout for a bit then it sort of fell into place and this is what I came up with.... not bad for a total noob.
I tried the Bluenoise plugin first but I didn't like the samples, which was a surprise as it comes highly recommended - maybe it's not compatible with win7 64bit.

I don't have studio monitors so I used a combination of headphones (very bassy) and my NAD hi-fi system (annoys the neighbours) for setting the levels. This is what worries me most is that I may have mixed it too bass-centric. I also had a hard time with the kick drum - not being a drummer I'm not sure what I like, in my mind I think I'd like it to be clicky but I found if made it too clicky it emptied a space in the overall sound but when I tried to fill the space it became too boomy - I hope I have found a decent middle ground.

Comments, criticisms on my recording/mixing "techniques" welcome. I want to get better at this.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Ou7shined

[Ou7shined]

I've re-upped a slightly different mix.

Over a dozen plays on the old mix and no comments. Is it that bad?

[lowdown]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1288811' date='Jul 1 2011, 11:28 AM']I've re-upped a slightly different mix.

Over a dozen plays on the old mix and no comments. Is it that bad? [/quote]


I am not sure its bad - but i think its a few minutes of nothing happening.
The vox sample at the end, why dont you try chopping it up and making it yours?
Bring it in earlier, be a bit creative. There is so much you can do to make things interesting, a DAW is open for just about anthing you want.
Not a knock by the way, just an observation.



Garry

[crez5150]

Reminded me of Chris Isaak for some reason..... yeah sounds ok but not much going on. Keep at it!

[AttitudeCastle]

How do you like the Line 6 UX2? I'm considering getting one as it comes with pretty much everything!

Beening looking around for an interface/all in one stuff so i'd like to hear your thoughts! (As i've never liked Line 6 amps so was skeptical haha)

Like the recordings man!

[Blademan_98]

Enjoyable track.

Now you have the first one down, don't mess with it and try to improve it.

Create a new track and put in more ideas etc.

I'm really rubbish at it but I do keep having a go!
[url="http://www.myspace.com/drummernotrequired"]This is my effort on MySpace lol[/url]

Keep it coming

[Ou7shined]

Thanks for you participation guys. I'm kind of more after comments on the DAW, recording and mixing side of things though, not my ability as a song writer.

[quote name='lowdown' post='1288848' date='Jul 1 2011, 11:55 AM']I am not sure its bad - but i think its a few minutes of nothing happening.
The vox sample at the end, why dont you try chopping it up and making it yours?
Bring it in earlier, be a bit creative. There is so much you can do to make things interesting, a DAW is open for just about anthing you want.
Not a knock by the way, just an observation.[/quote]
Like I said earlier this is the tune without the lyrics and other layers.
The Radio 4 guy was just a joke I added on (perhaps a tip o' the hat to Roger Waters) - the bird is staying though.

[quote name='crez5150' post='1288855' date='Jul 1 2011, 11:57 AM']Reminded me of Chris Isaak for some reason..... yeah sounds ok but not much going on. Keep at it![/quote]
Haha I hear what you mean. I knew there was some kind of 80's thing catching my ear, maybe that's it .... there's not much you can do with just over 2 minutes of a "how am I doing so far" instrumental. Strange though it may seem, there are new elements brought in at least every 4 bars.

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1289262' date='Jul 1 2011, 04:44 PM']Enjoyable track.

Now you have the first one down, don't mess with it and try to improve it.

Create a new track and put in more ideas etc.

I'm really rubbish at it but I do keep having a go!
[url="http://www.myspace.com/drummernotrequired"]This is my effort on MySpace lol[/url]

Keep it coming [/quote]
Cheers.
I like your no rules approach. Layin Back has real potential for a band to explore.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='AttitudeCastle' post='1289190' date='Jul 1 2011, 03:49 PM']How do you like the Line 6 UX2? I'm considering getting one as it comes with pretty much everything!

Beening looking around for an interface/all in one stuff so i'd like to hear your thoughts! (As i've never liked Line 6 amps so was skeptical haha)

Like the recordings man![/quote]
To be honest I have nothing to compare it with.... but I am very pleased with it. It does what it is supposed to do and I've had no problems other than operator "head in ass" syndrome.
I personally don't have much use for all the bundled software (which I thought at the time of purchase was a selling point but kind of turned out to be another way to get money off you - most of the the free presets have elements missing - of course they can be purchased in packs for an additional fee). Unfortunately the main s/w (Pod Farm etc) is optimised more for the guitar and there is not much support for bass (ok you can buy add-ons for like $99). I've founnd myself just using the basic included s/w interface (Gear Box) with no amp or cab emulation then tweaking the sounds in Reaper. So for all that, a UX1 and their basic s/w would suffice... although the UX1 doesn't have the phantom power for mics I need.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Ou7shined

[redstriper]

Sounds great to me.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='redstriper' post='1289728' date='Jul 1 2011, 11:30 PM']Sounds great to me.[/quote]
Hey cheers.
So it's not too bassy/boomy?

[51m0n]

Hey nice effort!

I would say this though, looking at your Repaer project image you should really really explore how you can use groups, (folders), and also sending signal to other tracks (like auxes on a mixing desk).

That way you can have one track with a Reverb fx set up on it, and send signal to that track from other tracks, so you need some verb on your guitar, you send some guitar signal to the reverb track.

This is far more efficient than poutting a reverb on every channel.

Its also just the tip of the iceberg in terms of project set up (see attached piccy, thats about half the project you can actually see in the picture...)

Edited July 4, 2011 by 51m0n

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1292257' date='Jul 4 2011, 03:04 PM']Hey nice effort!

I would say this though, looking at your Repaer project image you should really really explore how you can use groups, (folders), and also sending signal to other tracks (like auxes on a mixing desk).

That way you can have one track with a Reverb fx set up on it, and send signal to that track from other tracks, so you need some verb on your guitar, you send some guitar signal to the reverb track.

This is far more efficient than poutting a reverb on every channel.

Its also just the tip of the iceberg in terms of project set up (see attached piccy, thats about half the project you can actually see in the picture...)[/quote]
Wow that's a fantastic tip cheers.
I'll see if I can work out how to do that... come to think of it, I may have accidentally clicked on something down the left hand side that did that before.... but got scared and undid it.

How is my overall sound quality to you?

[51m0n]

I wouldn't normally do this, but really really really do yourself a favour and download and read the [url="http://www.reaper.fm/userguide/ReaperUserGuide375c.pdf"]Reaper Manual[/url].

It is full of useful tips, and is really well written.

Sound qulaity is ok, not too bass heavy or anything like that. Its a simple mix with timbres that frequency mix for you a lot, which helps a lot!!

The drums sound pretty compressed, dont know whether that is the samples or you, its not nec essarily a bad thing either though.

You would do well to seperate the two guitar parts in the stereo field however. Pan them at least 70% left and right opposite each other.

Try this.

Add a new track, label it reverb.

Add a simple reverb

click the IO symbol on one of your guitar tracks and drag to the reverb track

do the same for the other guitar track

You now have signal being ent to your reverb from the guitar tracks - this is just one way of doing it, you can also just click (and not drag) the io button and select sends and returns, # of channels of audio for the track, panning of sends and returns etc etc.

Note how you can control the level of each send independantly by clicking the IO button. Nice!

Also you can do complex routing very quickly if you click view -> routing matrix. This will take you a while to get to grips with, RTFM to get the most out oif that one!

Now add a new track, rename it Guitar Group

Now click and drag one of your guitar tracks to the guitar group, it will indent when it is 'in' the group. Do the same for the oither guitar track.

Now you can control the volume of both guiatrs with one fader.

You can do this group assignment thing using the folder icons too. Again RTFM, its a beauty!

You can also send the output to your reverb panned opposite to the original sound, which can be kind of cool....

Edited July 4, 2011 by 51m0n

[Ou7shined]

Brilliant.

I did have the strum and the tremolo guitars split (picking guitar dead centre) but not by enough. I had them a 30% which I felt was not too OTT and "safe" (I think the mp3 conversion has lost some of it too) but I just tried your 70% (72% was the closest) and it really works a lot better. I won't be scared to go so wide again. Cheers.

I can't remember what I did with the drums compression wise. I know I mucked about back and forth with the kick and the HH a lot. But each drum or cymbal has it's own compression settings and I'd hoped that that would balance it out. I'll have another look at it.. now I have the full version.

RTFM is a bit of a stickler for me, I have a pain in the ass reading disorder - so stuff like that is a fecking nightmare and that's even before taking into account male obstinacy with manuals. I have to concentrate really hard to get the info in and if I can't get to the bit I'm needing right away then I lose interest - there only so many times you can read the same line 10 times to try and understand it. Oddly enough I can learn super fast just by trail and error. But snippets like what you've given me above are just the ticket. I'll digest them later. I'm off to digest some tea now.

[51m0n]

Sorry didnt know about the manual reading issue.

My day job involves heavy dependance on manuals and hopw-to's, enough fo rme to be able to recognise a good one from a bad one lets say.

If I could suggest anything it would be that you use the Reaper manual to 'dip your toe in the water' as it were.

So if there is something you want to know about it really is worth the effort, for one thing rather than a very dry and impenetrable text every aspect of things like routing are explained like a recipe (ie like my steps above) with specific steps. This is backed up by the way Reaper includes a trial project to work with, and all the exampels are walk throughs on that project.

I dont know if this is more helpful for you or not, I would hope it may encourage you to give it a try, worst case scenario you waste some time, best case scenario you get to figure out a few ways of using the tool that you wouldnt have figured out any other way. Its a very very deep piece of software, there are so many ways to do things that are not always obvious as a result I'm afraid. Same can be said for any really full featured tool.

Edited July 5, 2011 by 51m0n

[Basszilla]

This is interesting. Pardon me for dropping in here. I'm about to start attempting to learn reaper with zero experience. I've got the manual printed out and the quick start guide. Some excellent reference points you've made there lads!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='1292481' date='Jul 4 2011, 05:44 PM']RTFM is a bit of a stickler for me, I have a pain in the ass reading disorder - so stuff like that is a fecking nightmare and that's even before taking into account male obstinacy with manuals. [/quote]
What about tutorial videos? I believe there are a bunch of Reaper ones out there on the web for nowt, or you could [url="http://www.groove3.com/str/reaper-explained.html"]pay $30 for 4h40m of this[/url]. (Watch the previews first though. You might not get on with Kenny Gioia's voice; he talks really quickly with a strong Long Island accent.)

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Basszilla' post='1293214' date='Jul 5 2011, 11:43 AM']This is interesting. Pardon me for dropping in here. I'm about to start attempting to learn reaper with zero experience. I've got the manual printed out and the quick start guide. Some excellent reference points you've made there lads![/quote]
You're in the same boat as me mate.

I have to agree, what 51m0n has said in just a couple of posts on here is for me the most helpful advice I've read on here in ages.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1293224' date='Jul 5 2011, 11:49 AM']What about tutorial videos? I believe there are a bunch of Reaper ones out there on the web for nowt, or you could [url="http://www.groove3.com/str/reaper-explained.html"]pay $30 for 4h40m of this[/url]. (Watch the previews first though. You might not get on with Kenny Gioia's voice; he talks really quickly with a strong Long Island accent.)[/quote]
Good call. Yes I've checked out a few on youtube.. but for a complete novice, it's tough wading through the mire of in-words and technical terms that are thrown at you. I suppose what's worse is not even knowing the terms for what you yourself want to achieve. But yes they have been of some help.

Many thanks for the tip about Reaper Explained... I've managed to find a... ahem... "free" version which I'll check out soon. He sounds like Woody Allen.

[51m0n]

Nothing harder than not knowing the terminology well enough to even know how to ask the question!

If anyone has questions about using Reaper, or more general questions about things you want to know how to do with recording or mixing generally - even if you dont know the terminology - just ask!

Hopefully the good people on here who have some experience will between us be able to come up with solutions for you....

[51m0n]

Personally I find the videos fine to watch, but I forget what I've seen too easily - it is a completely in your face blast of information you see. You need to take notes on the videos!

Whereas with the manual, rather than trying to read it like a novel I tend to look down the index to the area that sounds like what I need to know about, go straight there and see if I'm right.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='51m0n' post='1293310' date='Jul 5 2011, 12:53 PM']Personally I find the videos fine to watch, but I forget what I've seen too easily - it is a completely in your face blast of information you see. You need to take notes on the videos![/quote]
Yeah, I'd agree with this, although there tends to be a fair bit of repetition in videos like that, so some stuff just gets hammered home anyway.

Personally, I lament the passing of the printed manual. I understand that it keeps costs and material waste down, but I'd never have learned how to use Finale at the age of 12 without the huge ring-bound monstrosity that came with it. Not so easy to read a PDF on the pooper (not without a germy iPad anyway ).

[51m0n]

Ah well, thats cos you is reading it like a book. Nothing beats a pdf or other electronic format as a reference tool!