TheRinser Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hello everyone, Here's my problem... I put flatwounds on my fretless and it decided it wasn't having any of it and the G string side of the string tree pulled itself out of the wood. I removed it completely and screwed it into a slightly different position. Unfortunately I woke up this morning and the same thing has happened again, this time on the B string side. The new holes and the old ones have decided to become two big holes, what do you suggest I do? I was thinking of re-screwing it in as far away from the old holes as possible but not sure this is viable. If so, which way? Towards the nut or towards the tuners? Cheers, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 I would be inclined to have a word with Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 Thing is I bought it off here, from Geoff, the shop manager at bass merchant. He'd made it out of Iceni bits, defretted it and then sold it to me. Dunno if I'd get the same warranty as for a normal Zootbass... Apart from this problem it's a lovely bass... I will try to give them a call. Any other advice as to how to fix it? Got practices and gigs coming up and I'd like to be able to play fretless for 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 drill right through the headstock and use a long shafted bolt with a washer and nut on the back side of the headstock... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 [quote name='Paul Cooke' post='137649' date='Feb 10 2008, 04:21 PM']drill right through the headstock and use a long shafted bolt with a washer and nut on the back side of the headstock...[/quote] That will work but its not particularly elegant. It must need the tree otherwise it would not have pulled out. You must have really high tension flats on it to do that. How is your tuning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 Tuning is standard, I've actually taken the flats off and got some nickel roundwounds on there. The flats lasted about a week, was taking the bass to a practice, opened up the gigbag which it had been in for a couple of days to find the G string had snapped at the point where the string tree was. So the flats came off then... Shame really... Then woke up this morning to find it how it is now. Had a jam with my flatmate last night and it had been leaning against the wall in my room overnight. I'm thinking it may be temperature fluctuations causing the strings to contract. The flat is pretty cold but my room is kept reasonably warm with a little electric heater (not pointed at it or anything). The through the headstock thing is definitely an idea, but like you said not particularly elegant... Maybe one of those Fender 5 (i think?) style trees where the screw goes all the way into the wood rather than sticking halfway out. You know the wide U shaped thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Leaving basses leaning against a wall is not a great idea. Have a look at the Hipshot tree's like mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 10, 2008 Author Share Posted February 10, 2008 Yeah that looks like the kind of thing I'd be after! I will investigate What's wrong with leaning basses on walls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 [quote name='TheRinser' post='137674' date='Feb 10 2008, 04:57 PM']Yeah that looks like the kind of thing I'd be after! I will investigate What's wrong with leaning basses on walls?[/quote] +1 - never had a problem with leaning against walls (assuming it doesn't slip down it ) - is there something I should know? Regarding the flats, on my old, now departed fretless, the Fender flats it came with had hideous tension - especially the E, made me concerned that it could do some damage. Changed to standard rotosound flats (not the best but ok) - the tension was much closer to a set of standard rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 [quote name='martthebass' post='137816' date='Feb 10 2008, 09:20 PM'](assuming it doesn't slip down it )[/quote] Thats the main reason - something could make it fall. The other reason is that you are putting a force on the neck it was not designed for - that why god invented guitar stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 If your Zoot's like mine, the (bar) string tree covers all the strings (in my case, 4) and is placed very close to the nut, causing the strings to break at a very sharp angle. I found that this, coupled to the sharp break angle at the (string-thru-body) bridge causes the overall string tension to be very high. Mike's newer basses have angled headstocks as players preferred them. Perhaps the switch to flats (often a larger gauge, but generally lower tension for a given gauge) has caused this, especially as I can't see a flat string wrap taking kindly to being bent through large angles over short distances... The original tree used quite small screws if it's like mine. I can't see an easy fix, except (perhaps) having it drilled to take 2 more screws, giving a screw between each string, thus; B (screw) E (screw) A (screw) D (screw) G But take care that this might foul access the the truss rod adjuster if the string tree is really close to the nut... Hope this helps a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Personally apart from the falling over thing i wouldn't worry about leaning a bass against a wall, mine all hang from the wall which would put far more tension on the neck than leaning against a wall, mine all come off the hangers perfectly in tune. AS for the string tee you probably have enough of a break angle on the b/e without a tee so perhaps could use the Hipshot one which covers 2/3 strings or a fender style one or two if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 [quote name='steve-norris' post='137938' date='Feb 11 2008, 07:25 AM']Personally apart from the falling over thing i wouldn't worry about leaning a bass against a wall, mine all hang from the wall which would put far more tension on the neck than leaning against a wall, mine all come off the hangers perfectly in tune. AS for the string tee you probably have enough of a break angle on the b/e without a tee so perhaps could use the Hipshot one which covers 2/3 strings or a fender style one or two if needed.[/quote] Hanging basses on a hanger puts tension in the same diretion as the neck is designed for, leaning them against something puts a pressure (albeit small) in a different direction from this, therefore is not necessarily the best idea. Doubt it is a catastrophic thing to do but it won't help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 A point to make is that the wood you are screwing into (or not in this case ) is Wenge (unless I'm going senile), which is inherently a strong wood BUT it does have a tendency to splinter and chip easily (get a luthier to defret your Warwick otherwise have a big pot of filler to hand). If you use the same screws in another part of the headstock be sure to either put less windings around the peg or position the windings so that they are exerting less angle... does that make sense? If you can get a bar string retainer see if you can get one where the screws are going into one of the other wood laminates rather than the Wenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Yeah that's the problem I had with it when I put it back in. The wood seemed to splinter a lot. Tis a shame, it held fine until I put the flats on but they definitely felt like they were exerting abnormal pressure on it. And now with my slightly bodged repair it's made it significantly worse. The problem with those hipshot retainers is how far down they'd pull the strings. The headstock are looking like the best option, but it'd be really ugly... Hmm, I'll give Mike a call and see what he suggests... Lfalex, that's exactly the setup of mine. Seems like kind of a half arsed way of doing it eh? Especially with the tension of all five strings on it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 Just a quick update, managed to screw the tree back into the old holes, well, one old and one new(er), so it's at an angle, with the treble side closer to the nut, and a little more room for the B and E to break at a slightly shallower angle. Seems to be holding ok at the moment but will call Mike tomorrow anyway and see what he says... Think I want a solution that will cover all string, the more I think about it the less I like the idea of the Hipshot... Hmm. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Are you making sure you wind the strings down the tuner post. By that I mean each wrap round the post is below the previous. It looks like you are but cant really tell from the pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRinser Posted February 11, 2008 Author Share Posted February 11, 2008 (edited) Hello Bass Ferret, I try to wrap the strings as low as possible on the tuner, but the posts are hourglass shaped, so they tend to migrate towards the middle, with the last wrap as low as I can get it. It definitely helps but without the string tree it's just not low enough... Edited February 11, 2008 by TheRinser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 [quote name='TheRinser' post='138326' date='Feb 11 2008, 05:22 PM']... Hmm, I'll give Mike a call and see what he suggests... Lfalex, that's exactly the setup of mine. Seems like kind of a half arsed way of doing it eh? Especially with the tension of all five strings on it...[/quote] Calling Mike's a good idea. He's always very helpful. Re: the string tree- Yes it isn't ideal. Mine bows upward at the centre under the strain of a .60 "D" and a .80 "A"... Roundwounds at that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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