Phil Starr

I wonder if the wood you use gives you colouration

Sticking to the practical what exactly do you want this for? Are you playing for a band or expecting to when things straighten out? If so is this with a drummer or something quieter? If you are using this at home and are there any space issues? Do you have a PA system or expect to use one soon? How about studio monitors if this is for home use only? If you are strictly an at home player and you mix your own music then bigger monitors could be a solution. From the little we have I'd say go down the Active PA speaker route. I have a couple of RCF ART310's they handle bass happily up to their full output and in any case have DSP managing the speaker protection. They sound great but neutral and I've used one on it's own for rehearsals and I'd happily use a pair for just about any gig. You could of course buy one and add a second if you needed extra volume. They also make a great PA The other consideration is how loud you want to go. You can't really do everything with a single 10, a lot maybe but not everything. A 12 will get you pretty much there if it is a good one and with most 2x10's or a 15 you can cover the bottom end. That's state of play with technology at the moment and it applies to bass speakers and PA speakers equally. The other thing to think about is that to an extent at the bottom end of the market you get what you pay for, don't expect a cheap, no name PA speaker to handle bass competently at high volumes.

It's quite interesting, I tend to print off the pdf's as I just find it easier. Eminence tend to be fairly stable producing the same models over very long periods. Fane on the other hand frequently change things around without changing the model no of the speaker. I've some older 10-275 from Fane that were changed to 10-300 in the catalogue, all the Thiele Small parameters stayed the same except the power handling. It was the same speaker. Since then it has had more than one change of T/S parameters as it has been re-engineered but has kept the 10-300 designation. Celestion too have come out with the Pulse range a few years ago, which we are using but it was identical with a previous speaker. We try to recommend speakers that are easy to source and which we think will be available for several years and I try to watch out for changes which might affect performance. I suspect some of this at least is affected by the sourcing of components in China. Nowadays I keep all the old specs so I can double check for changes, and I rarely trust the database in WinISD not to have been overtaken by manufacturing 'updates'. It is ironic that paper still seems to be the best way of looking out for this stuff. My memory isn't any more

Let's hope what we say in lockdown stays in lockdown

Can't disagree there. I must admit when I bought my first bass and when I first dipped into BassChat I thought all this talk about tonewoods was nonsense. I'm a scientist by training and how could the tiny amount of energy I put into the strings move something as massive as a bass body in such a way as to affect the movement of the strings in respect to the magnetic field of the pickups enough to be audible? Well it's pretty obvious the bass body does vibrate, I can feel it through my body and those little clip in tuners work pretty much on any part of the bass (with varying success). It's fairly obvious that a lot of this is down to resonances within the structure of the bass. Those resonances are then related to the physical dimensions of the vibrating body (the bass's not mine) its Young's modulus (stiffness) and it's mass. Wood is so variable, growth rates vary from year to year, the relative proportions of different cell types and their structures vary during the growth of the tree and in different parts of the tree. Trees grow differently even planted at the same time and only a couple of metres apart. The density and elasticity of woods varies and species overlap hugely. Every screw, machine head, routed cavity, the strings, pickups and even where you rest your hands are going to shift and change resonances. Can a tonewood change the sound of a bass? Obvously. Is this predictable enough that you can reliably say which timber was used or how a bass will sound from looking at a body blank? Well I'm sceptical.

I love the idea of a blindfolded scientist passing a Stradivarius to a blindfolded violinist, what could possibly go wrong?

You probably don't want a load of techno-babble but have a think about what you are actually trying to achieve here. There's lots of talk about watts which doesn't make sense. The ratio of power to sound is logarithmic. you need to double the power to get a noticeable 3db increase in volume and you need ten times the power to be twice as loud. You can pretty much not worry about going from 200 to 300W and the difference between 300W and 500W isn't huge. You really aren't going to notice a difference between a 250W amp and a 300W amp. The only thing you'd gain might be a tiny bit of headroom but then why not use your RM800 and just not turn it up too high. If you want a second amp for other reasons, because you want different eq for example or a back up then that's fine but just for a reduction in power, that's what the volume control is for. Oh Bill has popped up whilst I'm typing, I'll guess he's saying something similar

I used to build and design hi-fi speakers before i started playing bass and moved to building my own gear for bass. interestingly Wilmslow, IPL and Falcon are still with us. I had a look at the Wilmslow kits out of curiosity and to me they seem expensive. Looking at the HB2 for £285 for just the components and £435 for the flatpack kit. £150 for a bare MDF flatpack looked expensive so i looked at the kit, the speakers are £45 for the bass mid and £24 for the tweeter so they are charging £127 for a crossover,port and a binding post on the back of the cab. I'm sure they have the design well worked out but the drive units are modest so I'd be pretty confident that a commercial built unit for £285 would be at least as good. If you paid for the flatpack I think a commercial speaker for £435 would be better. If you went for a used speaker then potentially you'd get best value for money. For example I found a number of Quad electrostatics on eBay for around £400, now they'd go nicely with your 33/303 if you have the space. Of course we don't just build for financial reasons, there's real pleasure in building your own kit and a lot of satisfaction when it works out well which you'd never get just buying something. My experience was that at the cheaper end mass production wins every time, but as you move up the quality range you start to make savings by self building. If you think you'd love to self build then I'd be looking for a published design and source the components separately. It probably would be cheaper and easier to buy something. Incidentally I think that things have moved on since 1975 and though the LS3/5A was a revelation at the time to me it was quickly overtaken.

I can't believe this thread is still going but it's interesting that I'm re-examining what i might do when we all go back to gigging. Just for context I was the sound guy in my youth in the days when frankly most amps were valve driven and incredibly unreliable and a lot of gear had to be built because there were gaps in the market. I carried spare everything and a full toolkit and have soldered replacement parts in the middle of gigs. When i started as a musician in my mid 50's I just carried spares of everything including anything needed to keep the rest of the band going. It took me a while to realise I wasn't responsible for everyone else The change came for me with the adoption of active speakers, no point in taking a spare amp and speaker if you can't pair them anyway. At the same time came the realisation that the only thing that has ever gone wrong at a gig is a lead or two. I carry spare leads and that's it, Oh apart from batteries I use rechargeables and carry a spare set and a charger. I don't carry fuses or a tool kit any more, I think that's probably a mistake so catching up with this thread i'm going to have a think about what I take in future and pack a 'first aid box for gigs' in the car; next to the first aid box perhaps?

Well done, that was quick given how late you got the cab and work demands. I'd better get on with the build write up

Hmmm, me, superglue and in-ears, what could go wrong To be fair they are a good fit when new, I just needed to be careful and to change them regularly.

Hi David, looks like you have considered everything. I have lots of 18v battery powered tools and associated chargers already so it probably makes more sense for me to think that way. One of the boards I was looking at needed a 36v split supply rail too so it seemed appealing and worth mentioning. Running on batteries is a secondary consideration for me too, it's the small and portable aspect of the project that appeals. It's a real shame that amplifier didn't work out. That TDA3116 chip looks interesting and there are higher powered ones too but if the implementation on the boards is poor as you and john have found then they aren't worth touching. Anyway keep on going this looks like a great project.

I've just rebuilt a small guitar combo as a bass combo and it's great but needs more power and ability to run off a battery would be great. So, I'm going through the same thought process, fortunately with @Chienmortbb on tap for advice. He's kind of talked me out of buying the module you used. I've been eyeing up some of the class D car amps as a ready built, robust alternative. I'm following your build with a lot of interest. However I have built an extension speaker to match the combo and of course you have to try it so I plugged it into my 'proper' bass amp. I'm now wondering whether just buying a TC BAM wouldn't be an easier and affordable option with a cheap inverter if ever I do need to be portable. However that wouldn't be very satisfying so I'm still thinking of your option 3 the car amplifier. The only suggestion I can make is that I did consider using one or two 18v Li ion batteries as power supply, re purposed from my power tools. they are lighter than lead acid, you have a range of voltages available and if you could form sockets would be removable for charging. A +/-18V supply would let you get decent power into 8 or 4 ohms out of a bridged amp and you'd probably get an hour's playing or more out of them. Anyway well done with the progress so far.

Hi Richard. I use these, TheTransporterUK - 24 x Mixed Black Triple Flange Style: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics the small size fit me perfectly and the seal is excellent, as snug as my ACS earplugs. As a bonus they go quite deep into the ear canal and that helps a lot if you sing as well as play bass. The only word of caution is to change them every month or so, the old ones go baggy and I once managed to remove my ZS10's and leave one of the buds behind. Foolishly I asked my wife to remove them and she pushed them down into my ear and a trip to the minor injuries unit for their removal was needed. Apparently hearing aid users turn up there several times a week and the nurse thought it was hilarious

If you've not bought gear for a while i think you'll be pleasantly surprised, especially as you mention lugging the old Peavey stuff around. It really did weigh a tonne though. Most amps now are class D or switch mode. They are stunningly lighter and usually offer huge power specs, some of the older ones were certainly over specced and under performed but there are now plenty of good ones. I'd look for something that gave 300W into 8 ohms 500W into 4 and for me the sweet spot is 2 separate 12" cabs. I find one is good enough for rehearsals and most small gigs and two will cover everything else. That is just me though, don't get hung up upon size, @Dan Dare is right, listen to the amps not us. But then again you need a short list to start you off. I have a Mark Bass Tube 500 and a Peavey Minimax, I prefer the Peavey. They are both tiny and only weigh a few pounds. I can't help you with cabs, i build my own and use those but there should be plenty of suggestions. I'd be looking for a single high quality 12 to start off with and if I like it and need more volume then get a second one the same. If you buy used then you can usually sell them on with very little lost. The other option you might want to consider would be to go the PA cab route. high quality PA cabs with the amps built in are relatively cheaper than the same quality bass amp and will have the same bass handling abilities. You can then feed it through a pre-amp or pedal which will often give you a choice of simulating almost any amp and speaker you want. If you search for FRFR on BassChat you'll see this is well discussed

Great to see they are still in use

The original cab was designed to do a particular job and has a tailored low end to suit smaller venues/rooms. The 10 is going to have a smoother response and is being designed as a full range speaker with a horn. The 30l cab is a deliberately small cab for a 12 but is a decent size for a 10. It is only the box that is the same, they are two different speakers aimed at achieving different things.

Hi Serge, I was considering doing something similar, I've been gigging with various prototypes up until last year when the pandemic put a stop to it. I decided in the break that I wanted to settle on something for the next few years that would look a little better and become my regular set up. I allow around 7l for the ports and the speaker itself so a 40l cab is around 47l actual size The SM212 models very well in the 40l cab and does give a useful extra amount of bass. I haven't modeled the 12CMV2 yet but i've no reason to assume it would behave very differently. I'd probably make the cab slightly taller and less wide, square shapes are to be avoided to reduce resonances but i think a 40l cab would be an excellent compromise.

In the days of passive speakers my back-up was a four channel Yamaha mixer amp from a Stagepas system. Four mic channels that is. If the PA went I had a mixer with me, if an amp went this was 170w a side and if the speakers went then the floor monitors would let us make some noise at least. I used to carry a full toolkit including a soldering iron. Modern kit is so reliable now though that I only worry about backup for really important gigs or if it is a really long way from home. I probably carry enough leads to set up for two bands though. Like Al our floor monitors are RCF 310's which at a pinch will do anything. Nothing has gone wrong or failed to function for years and in the end I decided redundancy was redundant.

Looks better this way up, there's only a tiny overhang. I think this might become my go- to set up for working with acoustic acts. I need to try it in a bigger space of course but it has a really satisfying sound and is more than loud enough with a bigger amp. This was just meant to be a fun project but this is quite a usable speaker. I'm going to try it with a PA amp as the Peavey might be adding a little gilding to the sound. John @Chienmortbb and I are looking at a potential amp for this but it might be quite interesting to try it with something like the TC BAM with a view to building that into a permanent combo. It'd be about 6kg and whilst it wouldn't work with a drum kit it could be a very straightforward, lightweight, family friendly solution for home practice and just making you heard without having to carry a double bass everywhere. £33 for the speaker £125 for the amp and maybe £25 for the wood/finishing touches. Anyone interested?

Just winging it's way to Stevie for the next stage.

The dimensions of the box are the same as the 'Easy Build' cab. Easy 12" cab build - Amps and Cabs - Basschat. Obviously the baffle (front panel) cutouts are different. We moved the 10" down as low as possible to leave space on the panel to include the port and the horn. You can get the size of the horn and port from Blue Aran's website and the 10" pulse from Celestion if you want to crack on with a build. We will put up a complete drawing once we have the prototype working and tested.

Not with all that mess

I tried this with my Peavey Minimax last night, wow that surprised me, it really is quite a satisfying sound in a family sized room. The extra couple of litres gained by not having the amp built in makes a real difference to the bass. I think this would be a real contender as ideal home practice set up. The single six gives it a really useful extra bit of top end and dispersion and the use of a 'proper' PA driver gives some respectable bass at these volumes. I didn't drive it hard because it was loud enough but it was happy with a fair amount of bass boost so there is a bit of headroom available.

From the point of view of the speaker cabinet design the crucial thing is the volume, You'd want the same internal volume and space to fit the speaker(s) and port. Any volume that is substantially different would need a different tuning port. The cab we are building is of 12mm ply, anything thinner/less rigid is pushing towards the point where quite extensive bracing will be needed. This cab itself will be improved by bracing and we will no doubt discuss that later, once the basic design is finalised. At that point the success of the cab would depend upon the exact structure of the flight case. If you love that look then go for it, but I think you'd have to be prepared to do some mods or get it custom made.