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Posts posted by SamIAm
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5 hours ago, LukeFRC said:
Allen-key-less string retainers on my bass, not headless but kinda …
anyway - I’m not sure how useful that is to the thread but it will suscribe me to updates so that’s good!
Ooooo ... those look really cool!!
How do they work?
S'manth x
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Nice vid @stewblack, really interesting to see how bass as an element of music has developed.
But OMG 64 ft organ pipes!!!
And relating to the OP video, I feel really rather sorry for the "Fact Man" ... he seems so deeply sad
S'manth x
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9 minutes ago, Geek99 said:
Yes you can buy such clips quite cheaply with a thumb screw to hold them in place
Awesome!
S'manth x
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48 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:
I'll put some more meat on the bones in the morning, but I think that the double-ball approach is an unnecessary complication for the short-scale multi-scale you have in mind.
Indeed, my intention at present is single ball with the ball at the head.
48 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:Cheaper to buy 4 allen keys and keep one in every place you can think of than being stuck with always having to buy some very custom strings (and getting their spec right) or compromising the functionality. And on a bass, how often do you need to change strings?
Look up Nova Guitar Systems (there's a similar topic somewhere else on the site) on Facebook and pm @Andre_Passini (the owner) on this forum. They are great quality and will be a lot cheaper than some of the above you mention.
A very informed point of view!
My current direction (whilst not double ball) would require custom strings to fit the Steinberger Gearless (Assuming they could even cope with the tension); A wee hole at the top of the neck, parallel to the trussrod would accommodate an Allen key, a spare in my gig bag would likely obviate the risk of not having one to hand on the odd occasion that I needed it. Being able to utilise ball end in the tuners would open up more options like technology for music or nova.
Thank you @Andyjr1515 🥰
S'manth x
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1 hour ago, 3below said:
Party dampener here, apologies. The Steinberger machines appear to be guitar only, there is some internet debate if they can withstand the tension of bass strings (assuming you can get the core into them).
Not at all ... thanks for taking the time to read and contribute. I agree the points you raise may be challenging.
I've emailed Newtone to ask what sort of string will I need on my B0 to get a reasonable tension (and what will that tension be); the whole tension thing has me scratching my head a lot! But if I get away with a tension that is within the range found on a guitar then I should be OK?
The 0.060 size limit is a bummer, I imagine I'll need a larger gauge; so assuming B was too big but C would fit the tuner
I've asked Newtone if I can use just the core (C) through a tuner or if it would lead to wrap delamination. And if it is a problem, could they do another thinner wrap that would cover the B-C section in my diagram and run some way along the B towards A ... if this thinner wrap plus the core was 0.060 or less then we're cooking (subject to the tension question). I also asked them whether sending the string around the pulley was likely to cause any problems for the string.
I saw the patent expiry but I don't understand enough about patent law, can they not just tweak it a bit to be more in line with what they actually do (as you say the original is very vague) and then renew it or get a new patent? Having said that a slew of 3rd party makers may be good, tho the reviews I've seen of other Steinberger copy tuners (you know who you are) do not make me think they are worth investigating.
If only my 3D printer could print metal parts!
S'manth x
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59 minutes ago, Richard R said:
I had the term "Tuning machines".
I always read it as "Turing machines", which are theoretical machines comprising infinite tape and a read/write head, and capable of solving any computationally solvable problem.
In this case it may well be tuning machines from Turing machines. 🤣
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5 minutes ago, Jabba_the_gut said:
Something like this came up in the past and I wondered if you could do a multi scale headless with double ball end strings and a one piece bridge.
Essentially the strings are all the same length but the nut would be angled and individual saddles used to give the required string lengths (if this makes sense). I did a simple drawing on here for this a while back but can’t remember where!! No idea how this would be for string tension- I really should mock it up sometime to try.
How would you do this?
Apart from getting Nelson to do it ...
S'manth x
(And please dig, dig, dig some more ... I'd love to see your drawing)
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22 hours ago, Richard R said:
This is going to be a short scale, mulit-scale headless bass. If you're worried about things not lining up, you may want to stop following this thread 😁
Much to my horror I'm finding this already! 😱
@Jabba_the_gut, headless hardware is proving to be a challenge. Some of the features I'm looking for are common/rare/expensive.
Captive ball-end head mount: Let's start with the easy bit lol! There seem to be a number of approaches. I prefer to not use a grub screw approach (I find it too easy to lose Allen keys!) So the options seem to be these two approaches.
I need to ensure that the distance between the ball-end and the string winding is short enough so that the strings are at their full diameter when they get to my 0 fret.
Individual bridge units. The approach I'm taking to reduce the LOA of Flo is to use a string through body design with the bridge front mounted and the tuners on the rear. ⁉️
Given she's multi-scale the bridges are quite spread out and so the units need to be individual. And look at that ... LOA of 846mm (33.3 in) and B0 scale length of 780mm (30.7 in) ... just what I was aiming for (I wonder if it will sound good ... or even play at all!)
They also need to be thru body compatible. There seem to be a few about, the Babizc FCH are my favourites (But about $80 each!)
Others range in price (From ... "I'd need to sell body parts" to "At that price it must be made of cardboard")
I might look at getting a set of these and mounting them in individual strips of angle metal
Google turns up a number of DIY bridges, so this approach seems viable.
Tuning machines
The tuning machines (I think) can be in a single block or separate units.
ALP do something that 'might' do the trick, but whilst the reviews I've read praise it's design ... it seems to be built from low quality materials which means it slips/slides/detunes too easily
The more I research the more I come to believe that Steinberger is the god of tuning machine designs. Two of these stand out to me as being suitable for Flo.
Steinberger Locking Gearless Tuners
They need no tools, have a ration of 40:1 and are not insanely expensive (< £100 for a set of six) but ... they state a maximum string gauge of 0.060!
I believe that I am going to need thick strings for my B0 (perhaps 0.130)
I wonder for a 0.130 outer wrap diameter what the core diameter would be; I know it will differ from one mfr to another but ... ?
I wonder if it is "safe" to only have the inner core go through the tuning machine or if would cause the outer wrap to unravel?
The other tuners I love are those on NS Design Radius. But I am not even sure they are sold separately and would likely cost way too much!
Buy or Build
The ball-end head thingies seem easy enough to make, the saddle/bridge a little more complex. NS Design Details can be found in the patent.
🤔I wonder if I should aim for a hat-trick build.
How cool would it be that if someone asks me "Which elements of Flo I custom designed" I could answer "All of them".
Tho, just for clarity, at present I am most certainly not thinking about winding my own pups!
S'manth x
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Just watched this rather brilliant video and thought I'd share ... hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
I'll need to check out the rest of the series.
S'manth x
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53 minutes ago, eude said:
you'll be glad you went for a shorter scale
I totally buy that! Having only played UBASSes, I did go shopping for a bass guitar. With a 34inch I felt like I was having to reach into the building next door to reach the low frets and my previously effortless stretching over 5 frets could barely manage 3! I did have an Ibanez Mikro 4 string for a short time (I really liked it) but I play in a ukulele band and it stood out like a sore thumb! Ponty (my bass) has a scale length of 24.5 and I really like it, but in going for a 5'er I don't think I could get away that short
AGCs appear lovely! And the work that Andy turns out is amazing!
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1 hour ago, zbd1960 said:
You can read some serious physics on this... just vaguely digging A level physics form the 1970s out....
Similar, I did my Physics A level in the early 80s ... it was always my favorite subject. The reading I've been doing is fascinating and I do grok the underlying factors better than I did a few days ago ... now I think I'm just going to go to NewTone, tell them what I'm looking for and let them do their magic!
S'manth x
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14 minutes ago, Richard R said:
This one.
They sound really quite good!
They do a multiscale, but it's too wee for me
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So basically, what I'm hearing...
S'manth, less
and more
And so ...
B0 - 800mm scale length (31.49 in)
G2 - 730mm scale length (28.74 in)
And now to model it
S'manth x
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Do you have a licence for that!?
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1 hour ago, Richard R said:
... And from everything I have read on this forum, the first bass you make won't be the last, it's the one you learn on.
This is one of the scariest things I've read of late! 🤣
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I'm attempting to 'scale the heights' of the early design of Flo. (Sorry 😜).
It appears that the scale & fretboard will be a major (perhaps the major?) driver of the design. It will determine neck length, bridge positioning, etc.
Fundamental to the EBB5 is the use of 5 strings; I wish to give myself the extra low range provided by a B0 string so for open tuning I'm aiming for B0 E1 A1 D2 G2.
From what I have read on the internet, it seems that longer B strings play/sound better ... some claim that the speaking length on a B0 string needs to be 31/32 inches or more (I've been heavily influenced by the lovely basses that birdsong produce).
This site was my favourite describing how 'not to fret' about fret spacing ... (Sorry again). I'm reading it through and am likely to do so again (and again).
I started to poke around at the various fret spacing tools on the internet and then came across this great video on creating a parametric fretboard model in Fusion 360 (I use Fusion a lot for 3D printing)
OK, so this will let me model things ... but during this research more questions came up than were being answered, for example:
If I am aiming for a 32 inch B0 scale length, what should my G2 be? So I started scouring specs for various other guitars (Very much a work in progress)
But it seems that the B0/G2 ratio tends to lie in the 1.06-1.09 range.
But why any particular scale length for a B0? I mean, why pick 812.8 (32 inch) and not 815 or 830?
Given that I just want it to sound good and not be too floppy, what is "best"?
I gather that the construction of the string (diameter/core/winding/taper) will affect stiffness and mass per unit length, which will in turn affect resonance of the open string (Does this even matter!?). Several folks have mentioned Newtone custom strings and looking at the permutations gave me a headache! 🤣
And then ... I stumbled across this
Mind blown!
So the stiffness of a string can affect how floppy it will be, but can also affect how well intoned it will play ... but also impact on the scale length and the tension being playable and ...
I feel like I cannot see the woods for the trees! 😱
I am finding it all very interesting, but ...
Is there some "scientific" way I can land on an "optimum" scale length per string (or at least for B0 & G2 which would then drive the other string's scale lengths ... did I say I'm going for a multiscale) or do I just stick my finger in the air and decide "How long is a piece of guitar string" ... or is there another way?
Guidance/help/experience all very (very) welcome!
S'manth x
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I have never considered designing a stringed instrument before. The most advanced thing I've attempted to date was 3D printing ... a kazoo! 🤣
In my mind's eye I can almost picture how Flo will look; I can imagine how she will feel to hold.
My mind's ear is not so clear, simply want Flo to sound lovely and thuddy, no nasty buzzing or other artefacts; It is her basic sound that I'm thinking about as I imagine I can affect this quite a bit by my technique and a good signal chain.
I'm going to be documenting my musings, things I've found, ideas etc here; partly 'for the record', partly so that others may find something of interest ... but a large part of it is to expose the design to the BC gang who have "been there & done that" and will hopefully point out any gaffs ... before I make them.
So ... if you spot something that is not quite right, please pitch in!
S'manth x
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1 hour ago, Billy Bongo said:
Hi All,
Sniffing around a secondhand audio interface. The interface is Firewire. My Macbook Pro has Thunderbolt ports into Logic Pro. I'm not a techie so does anybody know if Firewire fits into Thunderbolt without an adaptor? Doesn't look as if it does. If not, is there an adaptor, cable etc.? Any foreseeable problems? Advice appreciated!
Billy
Actually, apologies to self-promote @Billy Bongo... but I've a rather nice Focusrite Scarlett USB-2 Audio interface listed for sale in the marketplace ...
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26 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:
That is crazy good...
Thanks Andy, I'm rather pleased with it!
Dimensions: 85mm deep, 190mm wide, 45mm high (60mm to top of switches)
Weight: 380g
Configuration: Using the built-in webserver from a browser on computer/tablet/phone.
Power: External USB via USB-C port
Wifi: Built in, can connect to WiFi hub or act as a standalone unit (For instance if I need to reconfigure it at a venue)
Midi over BLE: Built-in
The various mechanical bits and bobs (switches/etc) cost about £25
The various circuit boards (ESP-32/OLEDx4/OLED Multiplexer/etc) £32
Connector wires, perspex, tools (Dremel,3D printer) and assorted stuff (filament, bolts/mounts) I had to hand
So all in well under a ton in parts, much more cost effective than buying one off the shelf (If you could even find something with it's capabilities![*]) and I can get it to do anything I want!
Well worth building one if one has the skills (or can find someone here on BC who would do it for you
)
[*] I did not need all the capabilities that the PedalinoMini™ supports, which are listed as:
- Plug-and-play with any MIDI-compatible app on iOS 8 and above as well as OS X Yosemite and above.
- High customizable using web interface
- Bluetooth, WiFI, USB and legacy MIDI interfaces
- No extra drivers to connect Windows, macOS, iOS (iPad/iPhone) and Android
- Bluetooth LE MIDI (iOS and macOS compatible)
- Network MIDI (aka AppleMIDI or RTP-MIDI)
- ipMIDI
- Open Sound Control (OSC)
- IEEE 802.11 b/g/n Wi-Fi 2.4 GHZ with WPA/WPA2 authentication
- Bluetooth Low Energy 4.0
- DIN MIDI IN and MIDI OUT connectors
- MIDI routing
- MIDI clock master and slave
- MIDI Time Code (MTC) master and slave
- OSC to MIDI and viceversa
- Any number of pedals of any type in any order
- Auto-sensing footswitches and expression pedals
The range of 3rd party pedals that can be connected in is amazing!
S'manth
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37 minutes ago, BigRedX said:
Firewire plugs do not fit into Thunderbolt sockets. You will need an adaptor. However which adaptor you need will depend on what sort of FW socket the interface has (FW400 - most likely - or FW800) and what sort of Thunderbolt sockets the Mac has - standard Thunderbolt or Thunderbolt using USB-C.
However, and more importantly Firewire as a protocol was depreciated by Apple 10 years ago and many FW audio interfaces are no longer supported. Personally I wouldn't buy a FW one unless it was by RME.
To get some proper advice we will need to know:
1. What audio interface are you looking at?
2. What is the exact model of MacBook Pro?
3. What version of Mac OS X are you running?
this is true
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A few years old from on of our Xmas shows (I was playing my UBASS at the time)
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The end of chapter one.
I printed the bottom cover for Trampa last night.
The USB adaptor fits nicely this time 😭
The old hole (to the right) can stay ... I think at some point I will print the main enclosure again, but with 3mm walls instead of the current 2mm; this will depend on how Tramp holds up under use.
12mm M3 bolts seem to be the right size.
Using a soldering iron set to 200c (The working temp of the plastic filament used in the enclosure is 220-230) I set the receiving mounts in the body. The holes printed are smaller than the mount diameter so that they will melt into place; the hole was designed to be deeper than required to take the M3 bolt, this was to allow space for any molten plastic to 'escape' ... otherwise it might ooze up through the mount and block the thread.
Attach the cover
Apply some magic Velcro
And like magic ... ready for band practice this afternoon.
I'm using an external USB battery for now, it's handy as it shows remaining charge ... and it fits nicely under the wireless guitar cable receiver.
Now to try it out, see how it holds up, figure out the best configuration for gigs.
At some point I will install the additional OLED displays and update the hardware/software to support them; for now ... time to practice some more chord tone patterns
S'manth x
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7 hours ago, Merton said:
Also very interested to see how this develops
@eude and I (and many others to be fair) own ACGs with 32" or shorter scale lengths with excellent bottom B strings
The ACGs are gorgeous ... as are those that @Andyjr1515 creates ... and the ones I've seen that @Jabba_the_gut made are fab!
I like to think Flo will have some ... interesting features ... I'm trying to put together a visual design and for insights from those who done it before!
S'manth x
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Twiggy - An EBB5 bass prototype
in Build Diaries
Posted
Just one thing @Geek99
🤣
S'manth x