SamIAm

The factors that go into a pickup seem legion.

• Wire gauge
• Number of winds
• Scatter vs neatly sided by side
• Tension?
• Magnets used

Any advice for a 5 string bass pickup? (Buy one is not desirable, I want to to make my own for the deep satisfaction it will being)

1 hour ago, 3below said:

 

Adjustable bridge something like the one I made (and pretty generic) , this will give you height and radius adjustment and allows a simple rod or flexible piezo.  You have the luxury of being able to print something fancy.  You could sink it into the body, have a look at this https://www.liutaiomottola.com/instruments/libellula.htm. I have owned a fretless acoustic bass with a simple bar bridge since 1980.  The original Roto Tru Bass strings lasted 40+ years, intonation has not been an issue.

 

 

If you want individual string piezo amplification and are going down the diy route, in principle I would use two quad JFET op amps, with individual op amp buffering of each string in unity gain non inverting mode (you can get octal JFET op amps, however afaik these are surface mount so present a further complexity). These outputs would then feed into an inverting summing op amplifier to allow the individual string outputs to be equalised (through some variable resistor arrangement).  Input capacitance, consequent high pass filtering, and setting the bias voltage, depending on what your proposed voltage supply is will need to be considered.   There are plenty of good examples about to study e.g. 

 

https://www.analog.com/en/analog-dialogue/articles/avoiding-op-amp-instability-problems.html

 

and this one. the title is so understated a mere 464 pages.   https://web.mit.edu/6.101/www/reference/op_amps_everyone.pdf

 

Hopefully more experienced Electronic engineers / designers will be along who know what they are doing,  or someone knows the commercial product that will do what you want. I have seen a suitable commercial bass piezo pre amp that has individual string inputs but can't for the life of me remember what it is .  Me, I would go simple in the first instance.  If it does not work (i.e. strings too imbalanced) then look at mk3 bridge with the added complexity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The simple beauty of that single bridge is lovely, it would really make her so elegantly uncluttered!.  Mu Kala UBASS solid body has something similar.

with a a single piezo strip under the nut.

But I struggled twofold with it

1) For some strings it was less sensitive, often I could get no sound from my G string. I never went the route of dividing the saddle like some have

2) Intonation was awful and unadjustable, maybe it was my lack of playing skill as I've heard amazing sounds from a Kala, perhaps as Flo will be fretless 2.0 I can just adjust by careful finger placement.

I do however have a hankering to have 5 separate signals so I can build some sort of pitch to midi unit, which I gather is better addressed with each string being routed individually.

Why do many/most electric guitars/basses have individual string intonation adjustments?

S'manth x

Just received a GSS 06B400 from @DanOwens (Ex @Hellzero I believe).

I was desperate for a battery powered amp and this is perfect.  Sound is fantastic, heavy (Especially for this 60 year old woman) but hey, thats what it takes to get such a great sound I gather.

Condition: Pristine!  I think kid gloves were worn whenever touching this rig.

Communications: Top notch.

Packaging: A dozen eggs could not have arrived in more perfect condition.

Speed: Just a few days.

Value: I'm a happy lass!

A big 11/10 for Dan, a top notch BCer, would have no hesitation in dealing with him again!

Thanks Dan!

S'manth x

2 hours ago, 3below said:

Onwards and upwards   Battery indicators are a whole bundle of interesting electronics as you will discover.  It made me think of a simple alternative. Dual battery compartment with a two way switch over in the event of one running down.  My ex military Land Rover had dual fuel tanks which made me think about dual batteries.  I can not imagine the cost of filling it, or running it, if I still owned it.

 

This JFET pre-amp looks really useful (and small) and can be ordered with 10 MOhm inpout resistance for piezos.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272951584025?hash=item3f8d2ea519:g:-CUAAOSwoFtfBGX8

 

They also make a version ready made with jack plug etc.  In terms of bang per buck, I really rate the Joyo 504 / 505 preamps, however they are probably too big for Flo2.

The problem (as I see it) is that each saddle will require it's own piezo pickup with the associated cost and wiring complexity ... is there a better way?

S'manth

43 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I think this meme must have been created in 1991. 🙂

Just half an hour ago on my laptop (Well I did modify an existing one)  ... what needs updating (apart from obviously the bass cab!)?

S'manth x

3 hours ago, 3below said:

Dual battery compartment with a two way switch over in the event of one running down.

The EMG MMCS and Tone control I'm currently using thrive on 18v ... not sure I can fit 4 PP3s in the case.

I cannot remember where but I saw a really cool single flashing LED that sped up (I think) when the battery voltage was starting to approach a too low level, I'd love one like that!

After really enjoying building Twiggy I'm enbarking on a second build (Boy is this compulsive!).

Twiggy was a prototype made from a 2x4, she is lovely ... but a few things came up.

• Hey body has developed a crack.  
• I was too ... enthusiastic ... carving the neck leaving me without adequate room to safely install a truss rod and my neck relief seems to increase weekly, tuning is a nightmare!
• I did not have enough room to house the electronics.
• I've decided I want an EndurNeck™ .strandberg* style neck, By pure luck, Twiggy's is close but not quite right, albeit very comfortable ... careful use of a CAD design will assist me here.
• Pine is not unattractive, but I'm going for Maple this time, both for appearance and stability.
• I found my multiscale approach was suboptimal.

Lessons learned

• I can build a bass, she plays well and sounds nice (I've rotosound tru bas strings and they are gorgeous)  it's been quiet a buzz the number of folks who come up after the gig to enquire what sort of bass she is.
• Plan 5 times, cut/carve once (or even 0.2 times and repeat)
• I can get a good sound tension from a 30 B0 STRING.
• Multiscale is hard, I don't like to look at the front of the fingerboard and I find it hard to figure the fret positions from just my side markings, esp for the treble side strings.
• Not using a trussrod -> too much relief so action is too high for comfortable playing.

Similar to Twiggy

• 5 string fretless.
• Single piece construction
• Short scale of about 730mm
• Minimal overall length

Changes for Flo

• Through documentation so I can remember everything for the next build  lol
• Template based neck shape with adequate space for a truss rod.  Loosely based on the 
• Milled single aluminium string anchor at the head end.
• Finer threads on the tuners to allow for better tuning control, I mill mill the whole things and cut/die my own thread.
• Adequate width/depth in the body section to allow for embedding of electronics.
• Nice brass insert side fret markers, tho I am considering glow in the dark for dim environments.
• Battery state indicator.
• Some shape to bottom (or fold down support) to facilitate seated playing.  I love the .strandberg cutouts bu fear the weight, perhaps some cavities/cutouts will keep the weight down.
• Self mad pickup. (No idea how just yet)
• Addition of piezo pickups (No idea how just yet)
• LED based side fret markers.

I spoke to David Dyk of luthiersupplies.co.uk, (Thanks to @3below & @Andyjr1515 for pointing him out) what a delightful fellow!  Their production centre is only 25miles from here and I was kindly invited to view the facility and even select some wood!

So in the next week or so will begin the tale of Flo!

S'manth x

I built Twiggy, a 5 string fretless shortscale from a 2x4.

So much fun that I've decided to try again with another  ... Flo - A 5 string fretless EBB5 homemade shortscale bass( Diary will be here) and I intend to document as much as I can.

I thought woodwork and shaping was beyond me at 60 but it turned out to be so enjoyable and relaxing.  I'm blessed to have received much support from BCers and I know have access to a fairly complete woor/metal/electronics workshop so am kicking things up a notch.

I've often pondered winding my own pickups and wondered if folks could direct me at any useful resources, offer advice and experience to support me in this undertaking.  I've a fair amount of experience in digital electronics but nil in analogue so it seems rather daunting, but the thought of doing so really appeals!

S'manth x

Hear you!

I'm an NHS critical care nurse.  The seemingly random shifts I work play havoc with rehearsals ... for gigs I have to book leave.

But playing (albeit badly) does feed my soul ... so I make it work.

S'manth x

Totally awesome tech stack ... GLWTS

Just received a HX Effects I bought from @Yan_Huriey.

Transaction was so smooth it was unbelievable!

A day after paying, he posted the unit and I received it today.

Packaging was superb and the unit itself was exactly as described.

Would deal with him again without any hesitation ... top class BC'er.

S'manth x

PM sent x

PM Sent x

I sold my HX Stomp to @Steve Woodcock today.

What a delightful fellow!

He popped down to Brighton today, was able to play with the Stomp and we chatted ... a lot!

Cannot rate too highly how well the whole transaction went.

S'manth

6 hours ago, alyctes said:

Could you rout the front of the neck for a trussrod and add a fretboard? ...

That had not even crossed my mind.  I shall explore it further, thank you!

@Andyjr1515, those figures gave me hope!  Routing the back of the neck I can do with a CNC machine.

However, I measured incorrectly!

The distal end is indeed 15mm thick, however (either to allow extra space for the mounting screws or simply as I got too enthusiastic with my neck shaping) upon measuring at various points along the neck I've found that the minimum thickness drops to 13mm and runs for 14mm ... and that this is at the thickest section, the profile has a triangular shape and it drops off either side.

Having said that, it strikes me that when correcting for too much relief (My situation) the truss rod force acts towards the rear of the neck at the most distal and proximal ends and towards the front of the neck in the middle of the trussrod.

I'm thinking that I could either add a bigger section of wood at the distal end of the neck (A bit like the lump found at the end of Strandberg neck) or add a aluminium plate over that end.

What length of the neck does a trussrod run?  From zero-fret to joint with body?

S'manth x

HX Stomp - A stunning bit of kit, supplied with original PSU.

Latest firmware (3.15) installed.

Velcro (hooks) on the bottom.

£315 includes tracked postage within UK, £10 off if collected.

Also available is a CME WIDI Master for wireless MIDI control, it works seamlessly with the Stomp to allow integration of BLE MIDI controllers such as TouchOSC,  HoTone Ampero Control Footswitch or BOSS EV-1-WL wireless MIDI expression pedal. £20 if bought with the Stomp.

The CME WIDI Master connects nicely to the Stomp (Which provides power) ... ideal for expanding the buttons/controls on the Stomp without needing MIDI cables.

@tauzero, thanks.

I'm unclear as to whether the truss cable would need to exert less/same/more tension than the sum of the string tensions (On Twiggy, with TruBass Flatwounds it is under 95kg. Rotosound quote 207.5lbs, but that is for long scale length and Twiggy, being a short scale, will have a lower tension); I'm guessing it will be less.  So I'm aiming for a truss cable that will allow up to 100kg of tension (or a pair of 50kg each).

Regarding insertion of pipes/carbon fibre supports (Also @3below) the issues I see here is twofold; 1) No adjustability; 2) Upon insertion and whilst glue dries I would need to have the neck at the exact relief I wanted and this might be problematic to do.

@Random Guitarist, very interesting perspective.  The neck cross section looks like this.

 The yellow box is 45mm by 15mm.

This is the extreme at the zero-nut end, it gets thicker as it approaches the body (abt 60mm by 20mm) ... neither offer a high proportion of the original 2x4 cross section.

A 2x4 I see is 38mm by 89mm -> 3382mm^2

My thinnest neck profile is perhaps 75% of 45mm by 15mm -> apx 500mm^2

If the load bearing is directly proportional to cross sectional area than it suggests it can cope with only 150lbs, less than I already have acting on the neck.  I wnoder what sort of 'safety factor' is in that 1,000 lbs.

S'manth x

Amazing ... I've an aim of building all my own kit (Bass mostly done, effects system progressing nicely) and a cab is on the list, this is inspirational in that respect!

I've built myself a bass out of a 2x4. (Build diary) her name is Twiggy.

She started as a pure prototype with a bit of wood I had lying around, to try out some ideas, to have a play ... but as I've put more work into her I've fallen in love.

Her neck is asymmetrical, quite thin and ... is starting to develop a bit too much relief.  The idea of installing a truss rod simply did not occur to me at the start (She was just a prototype); now I rue this lack of foresight; there is not enough depth to accommodate a truss rod near the zero-fret end of the neck.

I got to thinking/pondering and wanted to throw my thoughts out here to benefit from the collective wisdom of BC.

Without any strings, my neck would probably remain fairly flat.  The strings apply a force that is pulling the neck into a bow shape providing relief, but this relief is too much and so my action is too high.

The extremely silly thought experiment of putting a set of strings on the rear of the neck to counter this got me thinking ... I was reminded of the rigging on sailing craft that needs to be light and strong.

Why not route a channel (or even two parallel channels)  into the back of the neck, say 5mm deep, lay in stainless steel cable of 2.5mm diameter and tension this up to apply a counter force to the 'playing cables' (strings!) then drop a 2mm strip of wood in to hide the cable (Skunk stripe style).  Any lateral forces would be applied towards the fingerboard so having such a thin piece of covering would not be a problem. 

The zero-fret end of the cable would have a fitting that would be anchored to the neck, perhaps something like this:

These are rated with a breaking point of 165kg and my total string tension is about 95kg.

At the body end I'd need some sort of screw to adjust the tension and an anchoring system, probably run the cable right down to the end of the body with an exposed adjustment hex bolt accessed from the end.

I've found a UK supplier of bits (https://www.tecni.uk/) and their costs are quite low, well under £10 for a complete assembly.

I could increase the depth of the cable slot at the ends, shallow in the middle to introduce an arc along the length of the cable which I think would impart some mechanical advantage (not sure of the proper technical term)

I've been unable to find much on google about this topic, one thread discussing it (), suggesting that they thought that Ken Parker might have investigated this approach with his Fly bass but ...

Pros

• Able to be installed in a thin neck
• Low cost
• Light weight
• Flexible

Cons

• Untried
• Others ???

Thoughts/views/experience welcome.

S'manth x

6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

...

But, a few initial thoughts to be considered or discarded as you wish

...

Thanks @Andyjr1515!

I am definitely not looking at installing a 'trad' truss rod, I intend a 'dual action using a flat slot' type.

Is there any reason that this cannot be installed using a 'back of neck' approach? I'd route a flat slot (deep enough to take the truss rod plus the extra 6-8mm for the skunk stripe insert) and the necessary extra cutouts to accommodate the adjustment nut, pop in the truss rod and then (like gluing on a fingerboard) glue in a skunk stripe.

I'm still going back and forth on how I feel about a 'single piece with truss rod (and possibly a pair of carbon fibre rods to maximise stability) inserted from the rear ' vs a 'single piece with fingerboard' vs 'two piece veneer with fingerboard'.

Hmmm ... I really like the idea of having some lovely grain showing on the front of the body, but not sure that is the best thing for the fingerboard; this would point me towards having a separate fingerboard that is glued to the front of a slab cut neck/body.

Would having a separate fingerboard add structural stability to the neck (and perhaps obviate any need for carbon fibre rods)?

S'manth x

We (The band I'm in) had our first recent 'outing' on Sat, we played open air to entertain the folks waiting for the start of the Pride march in Worthing.  It was a beautiful day and the crowd seemed to enjoy it (perhaps almost as much as we did!).

I became aware of a few things:

1) twiggy is light, wonderfully so!  I took Ponty (My shop bought 4 str short scale) along 'just in case' as this was twiggy's first outing ... didn't need him, but I realised how much heavier he is than twiggy ... I've a bad back so it was a blessing.  Flo will probably be a bit heavier as I'll be using harder wood, with a similar design to twiggy, tho the 'body' will be a few cm wider and thicker to allow me to house the electronics fully in the wood.

2) My battery powered Roland Micro Bass Cube cannot compete with any noise, I had it cranked up to 11 (with my effects box gain up to pre-distortion levels) and even then the band member at the other end of the lineup could not hear me!  I took advantage of the recent Prime Day sale and just received a small inverter and lithium battery so I can use my more powerful Ant + Mighty Mini combo for our next gig (We might even have power there)

3) The 'grab the ball end of the strings' mechanism on my tuners are failing ... the stress is just too much for the Nylon 3D printed parts.  As a result I was struggling to keep my D2 in tune; one advantage of a fretless was I could make an allowance for it in my finger positioning but still ...

So I set out to replace them; I decided to go for Aluminium replacements ... I bought a small block of stock and after a bit of CADding I fired up Xena.

Even at the mildest of cutting depths, this task is wavering around the upper limits of what she is capable of ... so I decided to finish them off by hand.

I must say, it was not a great finishing job I managed, but they work and seem very solid.

I've redesigned them to be fully CNC'd next time and sometime over the next week or so I'll pop into the MakerSpace where we have a more robust CNC machine and then they'll look quite nice.

S'manth x

PS, this is us finishing our set after the march participants departed, you can make out the tones of twiggy!

On 07/07/2022 at 00:48, tauzero said:

I don't think an asymmetric neck is a reason for two truss rods - one of my Seis is asymmetric with one truss rod, no sign of any issue (and Sei necks are pretty shallow). It may also be worth reading through @skelf's ACG topic in the Affiliates section, I'm pretty sure he has a fair few posts about construction and pros and cons of certain woods from a constructor's view (I think he had a mutter about wenge at some point).

Thanks @tauzero, the AGC thread is excellent reading!

S'manth x

Thank you @3below, both videos were informative (and I've now queued up a list of others by Ben Crowe to also watch).

Very cool idea about leveraging the laminate layer for the truss rod ... if I do laminate then I will use that approach.  After looking at loads of necks on google I'm becoming less inclined simply because I prefer the visual appearance of a single piece fingerboard.

S'manth x