JTUK

I'd walk out if I saw someone wear a hat like that..

Wished she'd picked a better song...and the assumption is that she'd showcase her best..?? File under media darling-hipster wrong choice.... Not for me....pass.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1421061559' post='2656606'] That's nonsense. Your formative years and mine are completely different. Pub bands aren't homogenous. I have never played Sex On Fire and you have probably never played Birdland (I have; in a pub in Surrey). People come at this from different angles and the idea that everyone should know certain stuff is nonsense. My first band did 2 covers, Dazed and Confused by Led Zeppelin and Silver Machine by Hawkwind. Never played them again. I was 45 before I played Mustang Sally and 48 before I ever played 'Good TImes' or 'Ain't Nobody' This idea that there are 'required' standards for pub bands is nonsense. The implication is that, if you don't know 'Son Of A Preacher Man' you haven't 'paid your dues' or aren't properly 'schooled'!! The reality is more like 'Do you know -------'? 'No'. 'OK, Let's play something else'. 'O.K' [/quote] If you read it then sure you'll read it, but most pub bands wont have charts so where will that leave you...?? with a lot of prep for £50, I'd say. Very many pub songs are buskers in that you've heard the song, you'll hear the changes and it's done. After a while in those sort of gigs, you have a reportoire of as many songs as you can recall. It isn't going to be super slick, most probably, but then you get what you get for £50.. Double it and you are likely out of pubs anyway. Birdland is a jazzer so you'll certainly have come across that but most likely you'll have a pad for those gigs but then also the band leader is sorting thru the charts for the next few songs whilst everyone else is soloing the changes.. I'd say you'd need both gigs anyway...

Gtr bands do don't charts or pads The pub band dep set is a busker which everyone should know from their formative years

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1420975880' post='2655616'] We have ended the night with Alex Harvey's Delilah, with Wooly Bully, Sweet Home Alabama (it was a request!), Pretty Women and many others. Last night it was Under Pressure. I worry more about the first number than the last one. We've ended on slow numbers, fast numbers simple and big production numbers and they all seem to work. IME if you've done a good job the end of the set usually takes care of itself, but I hate it when people say "we'll just ease in" when talking about the first number. [/quote] When we have songs choosing sessions I always pick a song and tell them where I see it in the set. Picking the first track is one of the hardest as we like to start with an impact that others might finish on.. And that is why the set has to be thought through and paced... Works for us.

Don't recognise that set...all bar a couple. If you want dep work round here, the bands that are prepared to dep out are variations of Blues Bro revue bands. You aren't going to get much work if you can't do the function soul/RnB thing. Dep work in a pub is a LOT of work if you have to learn stuff you don't know and gtr bands don't seem very comfortable with deps without rehearsals which is not really depping unless you are paid for that, IMO

I don't think this is exclusively a keys problem, many gtr players will do the same with a bass heavy sound which they love but ruins it for the rest. Less of a problem if only bass and gtr but I still hear it too often and real woe can be 2 gtrs..!! The first thing a bass should do...is make sure he sits well in the mix with the drums. My sound comes over the top of the drums as I want everything to be heard, so that means the keys and gtr must be very careful with their sounds in context. One of the warning signs is a big pedal board of course, and most keys are also one great big pedal board. So it all really starts from the drums up..so well tuned drums, then bass, keys and then gtr on top.. but too many gtrs think they ARE the band and they seem to thinking that playing everywhere is driving the band. If you leave it to the gtr to do that, or need that, then the band is all wrong IMO. The bass and drums drive and underpin the band.. the gtr and keys are very very nice dressing on top.

Talk to him and get your point across...and then quit. I say this because I can't get the impression he'll get it or stop.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1421008001' post='2656157'] What an odd attitude. If a band were awful I may not go seen them again for a while. But you can learn from good and bad bands. I liked to take my old drummer to gigs because he was quite blinkered in his view of how songs could only be played in the original style with the original instrumentation. Quite a few times he had his eyes opened, but he still needs to hear a tune first by all accounts. [/quote] This is why I know ( and accept ) players have egos.. You don't have to be a dick about it but I might judge a band the same way as I judge my own particularly if that band/guy were a bit up themselves, but at least I see a lot of outfits so I know who is about and what they are capable of. There is also a sort of hierachy and guys that dep in and out of the top units are more comfortable in their abilty and skill-set, whereas guys who tend to stay with the same band never ever seem able to recognise that the gigging scene doesn't start and end with their local pub circuit.. and why would they...you never see them at any gigs so they are only aware of a very small circle that they inhabit.. I agree, it is odd.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1421003519' post='2656090'] I go and see local bands. Are you using a music stand? . [/quote] No, no You know I wouldn't for a rock n roll gig These people don't walk out..they stay away. One of them said he would never go and see a band that was better than his... and I think they like to regard themselves as a very good outfit. I'd agree they are one of the most popular ...

There are too many people making better 'Fenders' than Fender these days, IMO. That is a testament to the original design but they ( Fender ) haven't got the marketing and build right or in sync for so long now, IMO. That is why I'd pretty much only start at their American deluxe line now, but even they are too late to the party as they came in around 2010..?? I went for my 1st 5 over 20 years ago and Fender were nowhere in the races back then. I'd like a American J deluxe from the spec, but I suspect it will be way short of my current basses so I doubt that will happen.

I am quite impressed with the young couple of local muso's who have taken over our local music shop. They have been quite lucky in that 1 competitor has moved out of the town centre and gone 'elsewhere' and the other moved his shop to his music school premises out of town so the town only appears to have one high st presense. They work very hard and they go thru strings like nobodies business. Plus, they seem to have a noticeable turnover ..esp acoustic gtrs as there are always spaces on the walls not long after a restock. I used to go and chat to them but they always seem to have cutsomers..

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1420934689' post='2655350'] Thanks, that would be my band, were not a functions band. We are a bar band $500.00 for a 4 hour show with lights and sound. That's a bargain. We have been together and gigging for 9 years. We diplomatically turn down those $350.00 and $400.00 gigs. We do not play benefits or charity events for several good reasons. For a corporate agency represented band $500.00 wouldn't come close to covering a contract for lights and sound. Blue [b]No gig tonight, going to see Sena at Shank Hall ( small bar ). Bands support us and come to our shows, I support them and go to their shows. Ever see these guys that complain about poor turn out at their shows but refuse to spend a nickel too see and support other bands?[/b] [url="http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/"]http://www.senaehrhardt.com/tour/[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Z5XdkR2p7f4[/url] [/quote] Yes, that always make me laugh. Bands complaining about poor nights and nobody is interested in their scene but they don't gig much and they still don't support other bands...as far as I can see. I go to quite a few gigs per month and I never ever see some of them... and I've never seen the others check us out either. I'll support my muso mates bands but even so, they might not reciprocate... do they think we are sh**...or do they think we are a bit better than they'd like..??

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1420937456' post='2655375'] Depends on what kind of band you are, national or regional signed headliner or local functions band? To be honest I think well thought out closers are more for headliners ( the big guys ). At the local level it really doesn't matter, your lucky if you have a few people left during your last set which is around 1:00AM over here. You certainly don't want to save your best stuff to play to a half empty room. Blue [/quote] Wouldn't work for a pub band here... you need to keep them there all evening to be able to justify your fee and gig. We have a strong finish and the reason why we have a choice of 5-6 closers is because we will encore 2 or 3. But then again, we tend to have a 2x45 slot so we have to cram everything into 22 or so songs, but with 'encores' that generally makes our second set an hour plus. So, there is no room for 'fillers' and the sets are planned to start strong, dip a tad to give everyone a bit of a break ( we call this part pacing it ) and then full on to the finish. We couldn't play for much longer anyway, as the singer will be shot and the drummer will be on 3 shirts...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1420897193' post='2654714'] I'd be surprised if many pub bands were operating a business model. [/quote] I really meant giving the gigs they do a bit of thought.. and to a lot of bands that is quite a business model, around here..

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1420878170' post='2654397'] Forgive me for maybe being Devils advocate but why go for two 2x? Cabs with different speakers. I know you like 12s from previous threads. But if that's the case why not just two 2x12s? [/quote] It was a rig I borrowed so that is the way it came...but I saw the perceived value of the cab mix especially as the amp has a cross-over. But also, that was the way the thinking was back then so maybe the cabs were biased a little for top and bottom...?? We are talking about 15-20 year old designs there. Together, it was truely thunderous and I use a 212 and 210 in my big Aguilar rig today. I don't have a crossover in the config but I have the 212 at 4 ohms and 210 at 8 so that is a crude balancer ( more to stop the 210 getting a potential 400 odd watts in output ) when the 212 is a 600w cab..so I really don't want an even split between the two cabs, powerwise. I find that the 210 higher up on a 212 gets me all the higher end I could want and when I tend to run this rig, this is my stage monitor. And again, it can sound truely thunderous ..but of course, you have to be careful with that on a mic'd stage. I tend to go for full rather than bass heavy... but with the power available it is going to underpin a loud stage sound almost on its own..if I need it to. I can't see me using 2x212's at all tbh... but I quite like the 212 as a standalone.... Funniliy enough, I like the 8ohm 212 better soundwise, but then that was pushing me towards 212 and 2x210 balancewise, which is an option but getting silly. I felt the 210 at 8 would bottom out when run with a 8ohm 212 ... so the 212 was very comfortable whereas the 210 would struggle. My current rig is fully modular... I can go 2x210 at 8 ohm AND 1x212 at 4ohm.. or variations in between.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1420888477' post='2654544'] Yeah - He's never rang my bell, either. Clearly a great player, but there's something about him that feels a bit sparkly and shiny for a lot of the stuff he plays. Someone like Willie Weeks always seems to do it better. Clearly I'm wrong, though :-) I'd like his house. [/quote] What changed my mind on him tho was when I saw him doing the David Foster Hitman show where he played bass for the EWF slots where Verdine just jumped around mining.. and EWF tracks are not easy so either he is a AAA reader ..which he probably is.. but he is also a better groove player than I'd heard before.. I think this is the clip [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoxeznHFKT0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoxeznHFKT0[/url] of course, the bass could be tracked but I wouldn't think DF's house band would need to do that..??

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1420887155' post='2654521'] Yeah, we're somewhat restricted as we're a trio, musically, so we can't get away with a lot of the traditional piano led type stuff. We're pretty creative with rejigging songs to make them work, but obviously, some just don't! This is why we're struggling a bit with a strong closer. Alex Ps. Care to share any more of your five closers? [/quote] Sympathy for the devil. Wont get Fooled again Stay with me... LA Women Human LA Women One.. We can't do them all in the same gig..too draining but we might close the 1st set with Sympathy or LA..

Here is another version... ex name of 'big' band goes out and plays the bigger pubs and they might be looking at £750-1000 for the gig. For that, they will need a big audience who might pay £10 a ticket... and the market for those sort of gigs might be £8-20... but they might be tough figures to take on from a business POV.. You might find the ex name wants £250 himself for the gig so the costs...even if he fills the band with good pub players...are getting to over £500 and then you have to factor in a bit of a show costs ( lights and P.A ). We've been on bills with bands like these.... and they haven't even been the best band on the bill...which makes their fees and business model look a bit dubious... But like all these things...you charge what you can charge and you need to make the numbers work or your band model grinds to a halt..

The bands that can get £500 in a pub situation aren't THAT common... most pubs bands just can't do that.. but it really is dependent on their drawing power. One or two function type bands might do that sort of gig... in that £500 is a poor figure for them, but they might need the exposure in the quiet months like Jan and Feb and the pub is a shop window and a chance to showcase. In that sense the gig is a loss leader for them. They may be able to not bother with tickets but get enough through the door where the pub will pay them £500 anyway. I talked to one or two bands who can do this... and they really can't over-expose themselves in pubs as that dilutes who is willing to pay..and they say they want at least 80% of the ticket sales... Once you are in this sort of territory, there are a few venues (350-400 capacity ) who will charge £10 a ticket and the band fee starts at around £750.. depending how strong your pull is. We've found this territory very stressful to sell 350 tickets and tbh, we can get that money from a party easily so the former isn't that attractive to us.. We've also found we'd need a 'support' band to pull in 100 people to lessen the stress of sales, and they'd get £400 for their short slot but there are very few takers for this...?? When you think it is easy for an 'average' band to get £250 from a pub for 90 mins of music and not much of a sell ..the LL figures this is par for his business model of live bands, then the extra work and all that that entails isn't as simple or attractive as it seems..and also bearing in mind that IF you charge tickets...you can't play the Dog and Duck ( every town has one ) within about 4-6 weeks of your ticket date. If you travel to towns within 40 mins of your base, then so might your 'fans' so this 6 week 'ban' effectively rules out pub dates in that period.. so you can't actually be a pub band. We have been 'banned' by a local Brewery of playing that town within 4 weeks of a ticket gig at their venue. This is because some of their pubs complained about loss of trade... and the Brewery and the local pubs are VERY muscailly and business dependent on each other. We don't actually think the complaining pubs had a case for loss of trade...and there may have been another agenda.. but we were told by the venue booker ( Brwery ) that it was conditional part of our gig there. These are the basis of the dynamics around here for some gigs...which is why I said I welcome hearing how your plan to play here will develop. I think you could possibly put 3 dates together over a weekend but making the other dates work in a week would be harder..???

Not really a player that I take to for some reason...but he is always there, plays with everyone and I suspect that I like his playing more than I think would. You can't argue with the sheer quality of his C.V and the depth of people he has played with. This is not a guy who just got lucky...

We have 5 and I think each is very strong...but it also depends a lot how you deliver them. One that I didn't see working but really does...for us.. LA Woman.

The other thing is that bands tend to set the agenda and providing they don't stray too far off it, they'll get work. It may only be in pubs as they are more tolerant but that may be all they want anyway. Other bands may well use pubs as a launch-pad to ticketed events which will pay more. If you can get a pub large enough to sell 100 tickets then that can put the band fee upto over £500 per night which means the band keeps that figure and the pub is happy as it makes a killing on the drinks.. But again, this is a feature and the band will be the draw. They may well have/need a slightly more pro show as well... Function work is dictated ..largely ..by what the client wants, ( they want a soul band, they get a soul band ) whereas pub work is more buy what we are selling, music-wise...typically. People will go to their local music pub on the basis of who is playing and stay away if they don't rate them. Pass-by trade bars don't tend to do that well musically, unless the band playing is the draw. This is how is works around here, anyway. Pubs are specialist music venues or strive to be.

Eden 212 plus a 210 driven by a WT800... Stonkingly awesome.. can't imagine any class D amp getting anywhere near that rig. I accept it is a BIG rig and overkill for most gigs but hard to beat, IMO.

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1420833783' post='2654119'] I empathise as I feel the exact same way. When gigging becomes a pain then its time to give it a rest! [/quote] Exactly this.... You may be burnt out or you may just have had enough of this unit, but I say quit as soon as poss, You are doing nobody any favours sticking around, IMO.