bozzbass

One way to get round the 'big muff ate my bass' problem is to use it with something like a boss line selector. This lets you blend your clean full range signal in so you don't lose bottom end. I run a Lovetone Big Cheese this way and it works a treat.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='578433' date='Aug 23 2009, 07:20 PM']Fretless-wise, [url="http://www.jollybeggars.co.uk/stuff/rtkc.mp3"]this one[/url].[/quote] That is a really nice sound, reminds of that fretless P bass I sometimes daydream about. In terms of good sound, I like all of JMJ's playing with Beck. No glassy highs and sit's nicely in the mix

what is the pedal to the right of the mutron in the first pic?

don't know if it's exactly overrated but definately very silly IMO, the Planet Waves Gripmaster. :wacko:

I think spike's point is cool because it shows the type of music being played. I have to agree that most of that bluesy minor p-funk stuff is pretty dorian, but then when i'm playing in this cool little country rock thing it's major pentatonics with some passing tones all the way. over the years i've moved away from the chord-scale thing, i tend to think in chord notes and neighbour notes now to make melodic lines.

One reader here. It's funny, I had been playing for quite a while before I learned to read and I would say it still makes me a bit bervous sometimes. The reason I say this is that when I couldn't read, I didn't feel as if it had hindered me at all. Now I can read, I look back and realise all the stuff that I was cut off from. Also how much easier reading makes certain types of playing situations that ask for a quick ... study? turnaround? no rehearsal? y'know what I mean.

[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='567073' date='Aug 12 2009, 06:14 PM']I chart things out by hand using my own shorthand - it does help![/quote] +1 I find writing anything down helps memory

almost forget, try and use a fuzz with a blend control so you keep some clean, octave down signal if that makes sense. I think the G5 does have a blend on it. It's important cos a lot fuzz circuits have a high pass filter that will rob you of that deep sound out of the octaver.

the stuff on the jojo mayer clip sounds a lot like an EHX Bass Micro Synth the bond stuff sounded great. judging by where his left hand is all the way through the clip he is using an octaver with the straight signal blended out. If you do this and then play high up you get a solid and even monophonic synth style bass sound. I do this a lot with an EHX octave multiplexer, it doesn't track quite as well as an EBS but it sounds way deeper and phatter. If you then run this into some fuzz - which i'm guessing he gets from the sansamp and the BMS - and then into some sweeping filter - he's got the moogerfoogers i'm guessing with an expression pedal on the cutoff sweep- you are good to go. the main thing is switch the ocatver only signal in and then play high up on the neck. You could even do this and feed it into your G5, I'm sure it would sound great. I got this from some video on bassplayer.tv by justin meldal johnson where says he does whole hiphop albums with this setup and about 4 notes . i've never heard of bond, good stuff though. hope the above helps in your quest for dubstep heaven.

[quote name='redstriper' post='563213' date='Aug 8 2009, 12:00 AM']This post makes me sad - it's a sign of the times that we are all spoilt with too much money and choice. You will never be happy so long as you are trapped in the cycle of spending money on tools rather than getting down to the job in hand, (playing bass in this case). My advice is this - get a bass you can live with and keep it for years, learn to deal with it despite it's shortcomings, show it who's boss, master it and get what you want from it instead of wasting time buying and selling basses because they're not quite right. Certainly get it set up and adjusted to suit you, but don't just give up on it because you can[/quote] [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='563225' date='Aug 8 2009, 12:21 AM']I'd say every bass player goes through a period of research (option appraisal) when they're trying to find something they're happy with. The unfortunate thing is that it ends up costing money, however forums like Basschat wouldn't be as popular as they are if it wasn't for people wishing to exchange experiences. I don't think that Schwartz really picked up on or emphasised how important an option appraisal process is.[/quote] Both these posts are excellent advice. FWIW try relaxing your criteria for the bass a little, as Crazywiki says look at the bass as part of an appraisal process rather than expecting it to just be perfect because its expensive and has a reputation. I agree, it can be a bit irritating that a cheap bass like your Squier can feel better than the Smith, but looking at it another way, the price of the Smith tells you it is a well made bass which can be set up any number of ways, you just haven't found one you like yet. If as Crazykiwi says you are in a process of appraisal, be honest and ask yourself have you given that process enough time to explore the options open to you? I think you said somewhere you have had the bass about a week. Why not set a time limit, like 6 months, and in that time do everything you can to get the set up sorted. If you don't like local techs, find some others, I'm sure loads of folk on here can make recommendations. At the end of 6 months, you'll either have a great bass set up how you like it, or you'll have a great bass you can sell at not much of a loss AND you'll have learned a whole bunch about how to set up basses and probably found a good tech you trust. Both of these may cure your 'fussiness' as you put it. Either way its a winner. Also as a few have said so far, don't hold onto the low action thing too much, I reckon everyone's action creeps up over time. Again, it's the result of an appraisal process which just takes time and bit of faith in the idea it's worth persevering with things for a while. Good luck!

yep, grinding it is. i remember when i decided to get my reading more together, i started at the beginning of that james jamerson book and just did a bit every day till i got to the end. can't remember now how long it took, but it worked. keep on trucking with it

[quote name='ironside1966' post='562751' date='Aug 7 2009, 01:14 PM']Feel is something that can be learnt, I think that us bassists like to thing at times that we have a special gift from god sent to a chosen few but in most cases mine included it a product of hard work and practice. When people are brought up around music it feels natural to them so it makes it easier to play, where some of the Eastern, Asian and Latin rhythms can go against Weston people are used too so they are more difficult to learn and the variations can get lost on us, it is also true with scales.[/quote] After my ranting, I think you have really hit the head of the nail that I was aiming at. It feels natural, but it isn't, we have to work hard and figure it out. Figuring it out comes from our culture of people practicing stuff, this 'teaches' or encultures us about musical feel. The problem I was getting at, is that our culture also teaches us 'what teaching is' or 'what work is' if that makes sense. We don't think of enculturing (if that's a word) as teaching or work because as you say 'it feels natural' and it's not in a classroom with instructions and bits of paper and pens and all that stuff we use in school. As a result people can think 'feel' is this other thing from god or the earth or the soul of James Brown. I remember my lessons at Leeds College of Music and I don't think feel was ever mentioned, it was all sight reading and diminshed chords. So I'm wondering how do teachers think about it, if at all?

[quote name='endorka' post='562458' date='Aug 7 2009, 01:23 AM']While there may be some truth in what you say, I feel you may have overstated the point - I have a different experience of Western music. There are many traditional genres, e.g Celtic, Irish, Hungarian, with a very strong aural tradition where the songs and feel are passed down through generations of musicians. This can be a fairly haphazard process, but fortunately the works of collectors of traditional music (latterly using recording devices) preserve what may have been lost. Similarly, the "feel" for classical music was traditionally passed down from teacher to student, and continues to be done this way, even though recording devices preserve what we already know and facilitate the process. Naturally, errors will creep in over time with an aural tradition, affecting the eventual interpretation, but who is to say they are errors? Perhaps evolution would also describe the process? I spend a lot of my time as a musician and band leader attempting to create the environment in which appropriate "feel" can develop; sometimes I succeed, and when I do, the outcome is as redstriper describes. But it is not all coming from me... as Newton said, it is achieved by standing on the shoulders of giants.[/quote] Of course I recognse what you are saying about the evolution of feel that occurs in the oral handing down both of folk music and interpretation in classical music. You may be right I've overstated something here where I say notation has fostered a culture where we don't think about this stuff. But then I wonder have I? As many posts in this thread show, we really struggle when trying to communicate 'feel' to each other. It often comes down to little throw away remarks like 'swing', or it's experiences which come across as intensely personal and so are hard for others to understand. If we want to teach feel - which some on this forum, including me, believe can be done - these are not up to the job. I suppose my point is that I don't think feel is 'mystical' or 'out there' or even 'in people but not machines'. However our overall culture, one based on technology, rationalised commodity and the written word, would have us believe this is how it is. The result is we don't think about it, or don't want to think about it too closely. As you say, oral traditions of music do think about this stuff closely and do communicate feel through verbal and non-verbal means - like the playing of instruments and dance. This is a form of teaching which should be preserved and respected as such. Without wishing to sound too dramatic about it, maybe music and the arts are one way for us in the west to stay connected with feel. What I don't think, as Pete Academy said earlier, that having shops full of written music with the word 'swing' at the top being bought by clueless piano teachers is going to acheive that. Neither will it be acheived by insistence that feel can't be taught or intellectualised. I know there are some teachers on here, as endorka may well be. How do you guys go about teaching feel?

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='562345' date='Aug 6 2009, 10:35 PM']That's interesting, because when the aforementioned drummer wanted me to play behind the beat, I was nervous and was over-concentrating instead of just being myself. I've never had aproblem with how I play - the drummer kicks in and away we go - but when someone forces you to analyse yuor playing, it's quite a scary situation.[/quote] It sounds as if you got nervous because you were being asked to do something new or in a way that that was new to you at the time. Do you think if you had spent more time 'consciously' learning or working on feel stuff - that is moving around the beat - rather than just kicking in you would have been less nervous?

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='562145' date='Aug 6 2009, 06:31 PM']really interesting this....I've never really thought too hard about it.[/quote] This is kinda what i mean. We don't think about it cos in the west the tools to we have to capture it, analyse it and communicate it aren't really up to the job. As someone said earlier, the best we can do is put 'swing' at the top of the sheet music. I know many on this site don't read, but oddly this effects non readers too. It has fostered an overall attitude in our musical culture where its 'normal' to never really think about feel too hard. As a result we talk about it using remarks like, 'oh such and such has great feel' or 'oh just go for it' or 'swing it' and leave it at that. Getting feel right is important but remarks like these don't treat it as important. [quote name='Pete Academy' post='562157' date='Aug 6 2009, 06:50 PM']Another master of feel is Verdine White of EWF. But saying that, I read that they would spend an awful long time getting that feel just right for each track.[/quote] This to me seems more on the money. They recognised the importance of getting the right feel and so worked hard. As a result of this work, I dare say over time they developed a vocabulary and tools for capturing and communicating feel. As you say they came to 'master' it rather than 'just going for it'.

Just checking this D'Angelo record on Spotify. I totally see hear what you mean about the feel of it, super lazy and rubbery, it is very good though. Some of the stuff by Talib Kwali is like this, bass lines that really sound out at first, but after a while you just groove on their wonkiness.

[quote name='JTUK' post='561945' date='Aug 6 2009, 01:25 PM']Bozzbass best drummer and musician I ever played with went on to play with Groove Armada. His feel is amazing and his sound checks an education, but he had to play pretty square in that band as far as I can tell... Now, I haven't listened to them much but I get the feeling his talent was sort of wasted in a sense...or rather not utilised as all I heard him play was simple loops.. But he was glad of the gig, I am sure.. and he has the discipline/talent to do that sort of thing, of course.[/quote] Was his talent wasted? Well he got paid, and I'm sure Groove Armada's fans don't think so, they were busy grooving to his 'pretty square' feel. Why were they doing this? Cos of the uncomfortable yet valuable groundwork laid down in the 80's by Pete Academy. Of course, as you rightly point out, the fans don't get to hear the full range of this guy's ability for 'feel' utilised in the GA context. Why is that a bad thing though? The guys talent is not being called into question or placed at risk; you, he and the GA crew know he's a monster player. Hope this isn't too off topic, after all this thread is about learning feel. My overall point is that I don't believe people 'have' natural feel, it's not something essential to humans. We learn it from engaging in all the different aspects of musical culture. The question then comes, if we learn it, can it be taught? I think the answer is yes, but with difficulty. Why is it difficult? Because in the west, the music we have and the teaching of it comes out of a notated tradition, and the notation we have is insufficient to capture and communicate 'feel'. We are impoverished with ways to communicate feel. The other problem is we generally associate teaching with text based teaching materials. Hence when we learn through some other mode, like jamming, it suddenly becomes 'oh you know, I just picked it up' whilst shrugging the shoulders. I do think the notion that feel cannot be taught is ideological (not to mention racist but we won't go there). In the west we want to believe our jobs are not threatened by 'unfeeling' machines. Also western art traditions are based in a 19th centuary idea that art eminates from a single human authority or author who is usually an extraordinary genius with abilities beyond the reach of the normal man. There are cultures where a notion like this is considered bizarre. It's not that I don't value human characteristics, of course I do. What I don't buy is that 'square' Linn drum machines are 'unfeeling', and humans bloom with natural 'feeling'. Rather they just 'feel' different. Mike Elizondo describes the way he learned different feels by playing with a drum machine in a systematic way. He would set the swing feel to whatever amount and then concsiously play ahead, on and behind the beat by varying amounts. As Pete said, doing it this way may lead you to some uncomfortable places, but isn't that what education is. Becoming used to what was once uncomfortable. Do you remember those big blisters you had on your fingers when you first started to play?? Ouch!!! bit of a rant there, sorry guys. I'm actually writing a masters dissertation about some of this stuff right now so it's kinda at the forefront of my mind.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='561676' date='Aug 6 2009, 07:22 AM']Back in the 80s when the LinnDrum ruled, I was playing with an original funk band. We were in the studio recording a track and the producer set a click and 'demanded' me and the drummer play exactly on the beat for the whole track. What was the point in using a drummer? Nightmare days. Fast forward to a few years ago, Nearly Dan had a great drummer who was obsessed with the whole D'Angelo-type thing and insisted we lay right back on certain tracks. He couldn't understand that the rest of the players couldn't 'get' it. Everyone just thought the song dragged. At what point does laying back affect the tempo? For me personally, it was uncomfortable.[/quote] [quote name='JTUK' post='561684' date='Aug 6 2009, 08:29 AM']yes..the band either get it or they don't...too much thought and thinking will make it stilted, or, as you say uncomfortable.. If a drummer is going to do this, then they have to be very good at it and VERY solid time wise...otheriwise it goes all over the show, IMO.. A very good drummer will virtrually make you play certaiin things and others can just be playing at it.. Feel...it takes empathy..you can't just cop it..or if you can, you have it anyway...[/quote] Pete So your experience in the 80's sounds similar to my friend. It's interesting where you ask though 'What was the point in using a drummer?'. Musicians come up with this a lot when they are asked to play something like a machine, 'why don't you just use a machine?'. I think this comes from an overall human anxiety that occurs in the west cos we are nervous we will lose our jobs to automation. I think to ask this question overlooks an important part of music. Musicians can tend to view music functionally ie these notes go in these metrically assigned points in time to create 'feel'. Audiences however experience music sonically and emotionally, many of them couldn't care less about function or craft, they just want to get down, feel angsty, have a laugh, curl up with a loved one, whatever. One role of the producer is to bring the audiences ears into a music making environment. The point is this, 'why use a drummer?' Because the the producer, the band, whoever wants to have the sonic quality of a drummer because they realise audiences either want it or should be given it. So why ask a drummer to play like a machine? Again, because the sound of a drummer COMBINED with a machine 'feel' is worth exploring, it might be what audiences want or should be given. Where you and JTUK say about it feeling uncomfortable, I agree, as a player it can be drag and you have to be able to realise when it's not working. But on the other hand we have to try out uncomfortable things to see if they are worth pursuing. In your case of the 80's 'drummer playing like a Linn' it clearly was worth it, cos now we have some great drummers who can 'feel' like a machine, for example the guy out of Bloc Party. I think what we should really be worried about is how 'human' machines can be taught to feel these days.

This stuff about feel being learned or taught is really interesting. I favour the idea that it is learned BUT I have a bit of bonkers story about feel being 'taught' A friend of mine recorded with a name producer in America. So the band are recording a fairly laid back track and the producer is quite forcefully in the drummer's face saying, 'You have to play this exactly this far (who knows how he measured it) behind the beat ... oh yeah and you have to be consistent because if you deviate for even a second we start again cos we are having this as a single take!!!!!!!' So this track took many takes and a good couple of hours of severe stress on the drummer's part to capture the exact laid back feel in a single take performance. I suppose you could say that by the end of the day, the drummer had been taught(???) to play just behind the beat. I've been asked a few times to lay back or bring it forward, but I've never had anyone ride me like this about it.

[quote name='johnny dissident' post='537865' date='Jul 11 2009, 01:37 PM']I have been playing DB for a couple of years now,following many years of EB, and although I have taken it out in public on a few occasions, I am all too aware of my shortcomings. Now I know I need a teacher, but can anybody recommend one who isn't going to take me through the grades I just require putting right in a few places and someone to be my mentor. I bet that there are a few people in my position, who don't know where to turn. I live in easy reach of anywhere in Oxon/Glos/Wilts, any recommendations gratefully received, thanks for reading.[/quote] I really think you shouldn't worry about doing grades. What I really mean is, don't go into the teacher - pupil relationship with preconceptions or constraints, just let it develop to the fullness of its potential. That way, with work and bit of luck, your playing will do the same. Besides, a good teacher won't have you doing anything you don't want to do, but they will have you doing things you should do. Most good teachers will meet up with you for a free introductory lesson so meet a couple of different ones and see how it goes.

I bought an Ampeg from Sean recently and the whole transaction was cool and easy. He answered all my weird questions with the patience of a gent and when the cab arrived it was well packed. cheers sean

[quote name='DanOwens' post='506049' date='Jun 5 2009, 02:25 AM']+1 to a lot of what's been said. People regularly think octavers are meant to simply add an octave below what you're already playing. Actually, the effect works best when you transpose what you're already playing up an octave, use the '-1 Octave' signal as your bass part, adding fluid warmth to your sound. Then use your normal signal almost as a '+1 Octave' to add clarity and definition. Listen to a lot of classic fretless/octave playing and that's the way its used![/quote] +1 to this and the other guys who have said the similar things. When I first got an octaver I tried playing in the lower positions and in the end realised it it just sounded lumpy and bumpy. Transpose everything up an octave on the neck and it sounds great. In terms of warble, I must say I actually quite like it.

i would second the suggestion for an Boss LS2, it's an excellent piece of kit for all sorts switching and effects stuff. you would be able to match the volumes between the sandberg and the squire and then use the footswitch to go between the two.

i like the way it is described as 'Fender Squire Pro-Tone 5-String Precision Bass / Converted to 4-String' as if its a special feature. somedays, i love the internet