Bassassin

First thing to remember here is that like many other famous brands, Greco's just a name. What this means is that you can find the exact same instruments labelled with different brand names. Greco's owned by Kanda Shokai, and is predominantly a Japanese domestic brand - which is why they seldom turn up over here, and I don't think they were ever "officially" imported to the UK & Europe. Two factories were responsible for the 70s Greco output - Fujigen Gakki & Aria/Matsumoku, both of which produced very high quality instruments. An interesting detail is that Kanda was, and continues to be, one of the partners in Fender Japan - and until the mid 90s, MIJ Fenders were built at Fujigen. 70s copy-era Grecos are often identical to Ibanez copies from the same era, since Ibanez was built by Fujigen. Similarly, the Antoria brand, owned by a UK distributor, was identical to the Ibanez range, even down to the model numbers. Precision copies with UK market brands like CMI, CSL, Cimar, Arbiter, Grant, Eros, and various others often seem to be sourced from Matsumoku or Fujigen (importers would presumably utilise the factory offering the best deals, so it's not consistent) and will often be significantly cheaper than the "big name" Japanese brands, despite being identical. There were various other factories which produced very high quality instruments like Kasuga, Moridaira, Maya - but be aware that all of the builders at the time built to various levels of quality, depending on the customer's requirements - so it's important to get as much info as possible before buying, and preferably to see/play the bass in question. Keep an eye on the JapCrap thread in the Ebay board - decent P copies do come up quite often. Jon.

[quote name='BOD2' post='201294' date='May 17 2008, 11:12 PM']Thanks - very interesting. That's the worst corrosion I've ever seen on a bridge, or is that green stuff soemthing else ? Maybe it belonged to a punk rocker in the seventies ? I'm not familiar with rics or their copies. Is that a standard J-bass type pickup at the middle position ?[/quote] It is - or was - corrosion on the bridge, the green "stuff" is a massive build-up of oxidation. It's cleaned up about as well as is possible, but it had eaten away the alloy quite badly. I'll post some "after" pics soon. The bridge pup is sort of an added bonus - it's a 70s era PAF-stickered DiMarzio split-coil, a bit grubby but in perfect working order. I have a Jazz project which will benefit from this! More detail & pics to follow... J.

[quote name='clauster' post='200943' date='May 17 2008, 11:07 AM']BBC - for that money you could get yourself a nice Warwick Rckbass [/quote] Or two similar vintage JapCraps from the same era & probably factory: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GOLDEN-OLDIE-BASS-GUITAR-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ120262650694"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GO...emZ120262650694[/url] If you can find another one... J.

I've never played one but they look great imo. They're not a straight re-issue - more loosely based on the likes of this, from 1960: There's been a fair bit of attention paid to these over the last couple of months, but I don't think anyone's bit the bullet yet. So I say buy it - if only in the interest of being a guinea pig for the wider community... Jon.

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='200778' date='May 16 2008, 10:42 PM']Another totally obscure piece of tat: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GOLDEN-OLDIE-BASS-GUITAR-60s-70s_W0QQitemZ120262650694QQihZ002QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUYATONE-we-think-GO...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote] Familiar shape if you sniff around a bit: Ibanez 1250, from 1960. There are a lot of differences, but overall, I'd say it's a relation. No idea who was making Ibanez that long ago - not Fujigen, so it could well have been Guya. J.

The stained look around the binding's really very strange - it actually looks as though somebody's attempted to colour it to match the wood - except there's nothing on top of the lacquer. All I can assume is that it's some sort of discolouration associated with the adhesives used to attach the binding, and that's why it's underneath the lacquer. I'll include some clearer pics in my next update. J.

Here's something I acquired a few weeks ago. This is an early 70s 4001 copy - it had no brand name on it so I don't know what it was sold as - my guess would be Aria, Aria Pro, Univox or possibly Electra. Either way, it's an Aria/Matsumoku associated copy & broadly speaking these were about as accurate as Rickenfakers got. There's a bit of a story attached - I've been asked not to go into too much detail by the person I got it from, but the abridged version is that this was being passed off as a real Rick - it had a genuine early 70s 4001 trc and was in a period-correct Rick hardcase. The upshot of this is that some poor sod paid the equivalent of £600 for it, before finding out it was really JapCrap. Fortunately the genuine '73 trc & case are worth a few bob, so that should have helped soften the blow, as well as what I paid for the bass. These are the pics I was sent before I got the bass - she ain't too pretty, is she? I had no idea really if the bass would even be restorable - it had been originally sold as a non-playing, basket-case vintage Rick, after all. I'd been told there was no output through the jacks and that the hardware was in very, very poor condition - which the pics seemed to bear out, so for all I knew I was buying a wall-hanger. Or firewood. In episode 2 we'll pull it apart, give it a hose down & see if any of the hardware's still metal - or has it all turned into strange green fungus? Jon.

Oh how we lol'd. What the hell does he think that piece of crap is? When I first read it I thought the whole thing was a wind-up, but I Googled the luminaries who are alleged to have scrawled on this piece of trash and they do/did appear to have existed: [url="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=Dr+Ralph+Stanley%2C+Gene+Watson&btnG=Google+Search&meta="]http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q...earch&meta=[/url] So does he [i]seriously[/i] think this thing was made in the UK in 1955? What - didn't he ever go in Woolies in the 70s? [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Top-Twenty-Electric-Redburst-c-60s_W0QQitemZ230251994128"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Top-Twenty-Electric-...emZ230251994128[/url] That's its little brother, anyway. Jon.

I've bought a few cheap bits & bobs from the US - for small stuff like screws & such it can be ridiculously good value compared to the likes of Allparts UK - and quicker delivery, sometimes. I've also had a Badass II for £27 delivered, got away with customs charges on that, and a few years back I bought 4 sets of Elixirs - for about £45 delivered! This was quite strange because they were left sitting on the step with a customs charge payable note attached. I suppose because I'd been out when they came, the Postie couldn't be arsed with whatever paperwork they required & just left them. I waited to see if I'd be contacted with a proper bill for payment but never heard anything. I did read on a different forum that there are moves afoot to change the customs threshold for EU countries - I think it's suggested that this may be raised to around £120 at the end of the year. Whether or not this will apply to the UK I couldn't say - but it would be good. Jon.

[quote name='backwater' post='198573' date='May 14 2008, 10:55 AM']There may be more Runrig fans on the board than you think! Another one here - I actually own Donnie Munro's old 12-string Moon acoustic. Andy [/quote] I wouldn't exactly call myself a fan (although I have seen them) - but I saw Donnie Munro shopping in Argos at Kinnaird Park, Edinburgh a few years back. [i]The Cutter & The Clan[/i]'s a pretty good album, as I remember... Jon.

I think I'd be inclined to associate these neckplates with Aria-related brands rather than Matsumoku specifically. I've never seen the plates on an instrument I know to be from a different factory - but this is one of these cases where you have to make assumptions - eg an Eros (Rosetti UK brand name) LP copy with this plate can be assumed to have an Aria/Mat connection. Realistically, when you consider the known Japanese factories - Matsumoku, Fujigen, Moridaira, Kasuga etc, it's incredibly unlikely that they were each producing every component of their guitars in-house. Hardware will almost certainly be ordered in from elsewhere, either generic stock, or the the customer's spec. Hence I think it's likely that all "steel adjustable" neckplates will have an Aria/Mat connection. This may be incorrect - for example, while all non-serial Fujigen neckplates have Made In Japan on the lower half - not all guitars with these plates are from Fujigen. If you follow the point I'm making! Anyway to answer your neckplate question - these started appearing from the mid-70s: I think this coincides with the introduction of sequential serial numbering - I don't know but I'm assuming this works like a Fujigen SN - first letter is the month - C representing March, 77 is the year & the remainder the production run for that month. J.

And both basses still have "Squire" spelled wrong. Somebody [i]really[/i] should tell them. Jon.

[quote name='thedarxide' post='198217' date='May 13 2008, 08:00 PM']Oooh interesting. That's a bit different to the one I got from Seymour Duncan. I'll probably replace the pots and do it properly, it can be a bit crackly and occasionally cuts out which I think is the selector - tapping it rectifies the problem Some elephant ear tuners might be nice as well. These ones are a bit slippy. I found this site [url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Joeys%20frameset.htm"]http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Joeys%20frameset.htm[/url] which has a lengthy article on copy spotting which is quite interesting.[/quote] Here's a direct link to the article: [url="http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Fakericks.htm"]http://www.joeysbassnotes.com/Fakericks.htm[/url] Very interesting - if a little biased! There are some fascinating pics of copies the likes of which I've never seen on there - but I guess that's not [i]quite[/i] the point... I do feel very strongly about copies being passed off as the real thing - I'm currently restoring a neck-through Matsumoku copy, which came to me through a friend of someone who'd bought it as genuine. This thing was a dilapidated basket-case (as it was when I got it) being passed off as a '73 4001 - the poor sod who bought it paid $1200. It is a very convincing copy (neck-through, twin rods, binding gap, had a genuine 4001 trc) so I suppose the seller might've thought it was real - but that's not the point. Anyroad - it won't be going back into the marketplace -or wearing a fake trc - while there's activity in my synapses. However it should be making its debut in the bass builds & projects board soon! J.

Oh that's very tidy. Well - apart from the nailed-on jackplate. WTF? If you're interested at having a crack at wiring it properly, help is available from the most surprising of quarters: [url="http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19507.pdf"]http://www.rickenbacker.com/pdfs/19507.pdf[/url] I think we can assume it's the same as a real one... The half-peeled sticker will be the model number - can you still read it? The sticky blob on the back of the headstock will be where a round inspection sticker once lived. I'm 99.9999% that this is a Hondo based on these - I have a (surprisingly nice) Hondo LP copy waiting for me to put it back together - it has similar stickers & residue. Anyway, Hondo, Jap, Korean, whatever - it's a looker alright. I'm usually not a big fan of the Fireglo colour copies - they're often washed out & sickly pink-looking, but this one looks quite deep - puts a few real Ricks to shame. J.

Looking pretty good to me - I am [b]so[/b] relieved for you that both pickups work - trying to find replacement Rickenfaker pups is a nightmare - and real Rick ones cost the earth! Right - the only plywood Rick copies I've seen are Hondo - and this brand's predominantly Korean, so I'm guessing that's what this is. However the hardware here looks identical to that found on many Japanese copies - and the bridge pickup is a far more accurate copy than the one on the top-end Matsumoku/Aria copies. Shame about the trc - but it's otherwise complete, & having the bridge pup cover is a huge bonus (whether you use it or not) as these are the first thing to get binned. I haven't seen many 70s copies with the cover still there. This one's a 4001 copy - it has a skunk-stripe and a small gap between the pickup & neck, unlike the 4003, which has no stripe and a 1" gap. And to those surprised at the price - bear in mind these basses - 70s Rick copies - are [i]incredibly[/i] collectable. This one originally had a BIN of £499, and I've seen others bid to well beyond that. They're very, very rare, and those that do appear on Ebay usually end up being cancelled, due to Rickenbacker's draconian enforcement of their copyrights & trademarks. Anyway thedarxide - looking forward to seeing more pics. Loads more pics! Jon.

[quote name='thedarxide' post='197800' date='May 13 2008, 10:54 AM']It's here!!!! It's teasing me at work as I can't play it.... but a two minute glance confirms it's definently cheap. Very similar to one of my columbus basses in the tuners/selector switch/strap button/jack socket choices, and the paint is peeling on the back of the headstock that wasn't visible in the pics. Will deconstruct and post proper pics later. The Rickenbacker TRC appears to just be a piece of paper with Rickenbacker printed on it behind a clear TRC, which is a slight shame, as I was going to flog it But at least I can print my own brand name off and slide it underneath.....[/quote] That's good. Post some pics & we'll see if we can give a positive ID. The hardware sounds like it's the generic stuff you find on many Jap copies, it's generally functional enough. Too bad about the trc - but it's a good opportunity for personalisation! J.

[quote name='Musky' post='197605' date='May 12 2008, 11:28 PM']Yeah, I suppose aside from the importer there's no reason to think they're built in the same factories. Even the Venturas seem to hae been sourced rom different factories at one time or another. References to Kasuga: [url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/2889/wwwboard/messages/283.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/283.shtml[/url] and here - [url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ventura/V-20/10/1"]http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...ntura/V-20/10/1[/url] Post here refering to 'Steel Adjustable Neck' - sounds very much like Matsumoku, which I think you suspected. [url="http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars/rec/160/wwwboard/messages/364.shtml"]http://www.guitarsite.com/database/Guitars...sages/364.shtml[/url][/quote] The Kasuga references do sound pretty convincing - one is clearly what's marked on the guitar & it's reasonable to infer that the other one is too. I've never seen a Steel Adjustable plate on anything I [i]know[/i] to be a Kasuga - but realistically the Matsumoku thing's potentially a bit of a red herring. If you read the more clued-up folk on the Matsumoku forum, they'll tell you that there's no known/proven link between Aria guitars (being, as you know the main brand associated with Mat) and the Matsumoku factory prior to 1975. Before that, no-one's quite sure where Aria guitars were from, in fact it's generally assumed that Shiro Arai co had their own factory. This is further confused by speculation that necks, bodies & hardware all came from different sources - and Kasuga has been suggested as one of those sources. The suggestion that Aria/Arai had their own factory is strengthened by this vintage Greco catalogue archive: [url="http://psyco.jp/greco/cata.html"]http://psyco.jp/greco/cata.html[/url] These seem to date back to the very early 70s - Greco's parent company is Kanda Shokai - and both Aria & Fujigen Gakki appear namechecked in the literature. The early Greco line included Rick copies that are plainly from both sources - the distinctive Gibson type pups & full-width inlays on the Fujigen, and the very accurate version from Aria. With a few exceptions, it's becoming harder & harder to pin particular brands to specific manufacturers - even the ones we [i]thought[/i] we understood - and this is the result of uncovering more information. And the further back you go, the more random it all seems. With some of these weird old things like this Royal Artist sometimes the best you can settle for is "Made In Japan". J.

[quote name='Musky' post='197424' date='May 12 2008, 07:32 PM']Incidentally Jon, that Royal Artist would appear to be a relation of Ventura. There are a couple of posts around the net from people asking for info on their Ventura semis, and include the detail that it was "made by Kasuga". I'm guessing this has probably gleaned from the label inside. Old news?[/quote] There's not much Ventura info out there - but since according to this page (which promises more than it delivers, unfortunately!) [url="http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/ventura/ventura_bruno.html"]http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/...tura_bruno.html[/url] - Ventura was a Bruno brand - there is a connection, and it's quite likely similar models appeared under both names. Kasuga's a possibility as builder - only really based on the fact that they are known to have been building off-brand guitars in the 60s & early 70s. The connection comes, again probably from the above page, where the writer identifies Kasuga with Tokai - which is slightly erroneous, as any fule kno. Like all these things, until we find one the same bearing a brand with a known & verified provenance, it's guesswork - and even if you have that, it's still usually about as clear as hippo poo. J.

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='197149' date='May 12 2008, 01:49 PM']*shakes paul by the lapels* Cold Irons Bound, man! Listen to its' bassy goodness![/quote] LOL @ "bassy goodness". So obvious, yet so underused. Jon.

[quote name='beerdragon' post='197275' date='May 12 2008, 04:31 PM']For £84 i does'nt too bad. plus £16 postage. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOP-NEW-4-STRING-BASS-SUPERB-DESIGN_W0QQitemZ310049037803QQihZ021QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOP-NEW-4-STRING-BAS...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote] If that had a maple board it'd be getting the Entwistle fans in a lather - factory FenderBird! Jon.

Aria Pro CSB300 (medium scale), in hard case, very reasonable BIN & cheap postage: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260239543592"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...em=260239543592[/url] Edit: Bugger! Too late!! The jury's still out about the Royal Artist - beyond late 60s/early 70s JapCrap, I'm stumped for an ID! Bruno was/is a US importer, & Royal Artist one of their sub-brands, so it's likely pretty rare on these shores, certainly in that guise. Whether it's £250+ rare is very much another matter! J.

[quote name='The Burpster' post='196696' date='May 11 2008, 08:56 PM']Dont know much about these but somone might be floated by it... Its cheap enough.. [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vester-Argus-Active-Bass-Very-Rare_W0QQitemZ190221453105QQihZ009QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vester-Argus-Active-...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url][/quote] Don't see many of them - but in a strange coincidence, here's what appears to be a Vester Argus [i]copy[/i]: [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Active-custom-made-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ300224115250"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Active-custom-made-B...emZ300224115250[/url] Jon.

Unfortunately it's really hard to see much useful detail from the typically rubbish Ebay pics - when your friend gets the bass, try & get some clearer & more detailed photos. Headstocks, pickups, bridge, neckplates etc are useful clues for getting an idea about age & origin - and the pics here succeed in hiding most of these quite well! My first impression is mid-late 60s, possibly Aria-related (although it's not a 1220 - this had a 335-body shape & offset dot markers, afaik) - and I think, from what I can see from the photos - it's related to this: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18646"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18646[/url] Compare the neck/headstock particularly - if it turns out the semi has a zero-fret, squared fretboard corners & plastic laminate overlay on the head - that's a positive comparison. Still won't tell us what it actually is - but it's a good start as clues go. Jon.

If it was the pink one, I would. :brow: Jon.

I strongly suspect Fenders go round corners better than Harleys! The other parallel is that the Japanese copied them - & the copies were cheaper & better than the originals. J.