Beer of the Bass

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1431786047' post='2774988'] It must be a lefty drummer thing! The drummer that Beer of the Bass mentioned earlier is also a lefty... Can't you just play like... you know, a normal human being? (runs away) [/quote] Come to think of it, as well as playing left handed with no hole in the kick, our drummers political views are probably quite compatible with Dad3353's too. Hmm, what is it with left-handed drummers?

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1431712334' post='2774293'] I have an i2M, I got it as a Christmas pressie but it's not really something I'd use so I have put it up for sale on here, if you want to borrow it to try out I'd be happy to let you if you pay the postage, absolutely no pressure to buy it at all, just send it back to me after you've had a try. Ideally you need a instrument that produces nice strong clean notes, fret buzz and dead notes are a no no. [/quote] That's a very kind offer, but the I2M is the USB-only version so won't work with my module which needs 5-pin MIDI. Thanks for offering though!

Besides, most people who run any sort of bass related company get banned from Talkbass at some point - Alex wouldn't be the first. They're kind of touchy about what can and can't be said there.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1431586953' post='2772752'] Surely this thread is now a perfect example of irresistible force meeting immovable object? The two "sides" are so intransigent and convinced of their "correctness" that they won't listen to the other. It's sad, and its unnecessary IMO. There is so much experience on offer, and it is a shame to see it being used in pointless [i]ad hominem[/i] bickering. Or that's how I see it, anyway [/quote] I'm actually finding it kind of useful to read both, as it helps to correlate what we hear from different speakers with the measurements of them. Mr Johnson will no doubt disagree, but I don't think they're actually too far divergent. Bill's explanation about Qes makes sense to me, as the Qes value is described elsewhere as the electrical damping factor, with a low value meaning that with the coil and magnet have more control over the cone. Subjectively, when a musician plays through that, they might use words like tight, articulate or "fast", with a less well-damped driver coming across as loose, boomy or "slow". (Stop me if this is sounding like nonsense...) I'm all for looking at the measurements to back up and interpret what we get from listening, otherwise we'd all be chasing a dwindling number of discontinued drivers rather than figuring out how to get the sound we want from newer gear.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1431444162' post='2771436'] The difference between a player who doesn't bother to learn the science and one who does is that the former knows that the EVM sounds good, the latter knows why. [/quote] If this isn't too much of a digression, it's notable that those specific EVM and JBL drivers are much appreciated by bassists who often claim to get something from them which they're not hearing from a lot of more modern drivers. Which specific properties from a technical perspective might be responsible for that? You've been quite clear that transient response isn't it, but what [i]is[/i] it?

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1431381141' post='2770803'] Funny that the 'Barefaced are louder' arguement comes around on every speaker cab recomendation thread on BC. Firstly, I find it interesting that they apparently eek more volume out of their units than Bergantino/Vanderkley/Aguilar/Anyothertopbrand; and secondly, that people care so much. I can't think of a gig I'd do where a CN212 wouldn't be loud enough. Not trying to ruffle feathers, just an observation. [/quote] I guess if you're using either one or two 1x12" cabs depending on the gig, having higher displacement drivers might mean you find yourself bringing the second one along less often. I can see how a lot of people might appreciate that.

[quote name='Bradwell' timestamp='1431351860' post='2770304'] Me: "Would you like a cup of tea?" Friend: "That would be great, milk and three sugars please." Me: "Uh, no, I've only got Earl Grey and it's usually served black. I've not got any white sugar in the house either, is demerara alright?" Friend: "You're too middle class for your own good." Looks like I'm out. [/quote] I put milk in my Earl Grey. Does that mean I'm in?

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1431294160' post='2769804'] Yep - stop being a wimp The CN212 is in a different league - Near the top of the premiership vs mid table championship. . . [/quote] Says the man who is a partner in a retailer who sell Bergantino! That doesn't necessarily discount your opinion, but it should be noted.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1431284671' post='2769642'] Not necessarily. A drum kit takes a lot of space, and time to set up. The gig was at the Mash House, wasn't it? So another couple of bands playing... It makes sense to share drum kit... and I am sure that was prearranged. A suitable guitar amp takes little space and it's easily carried... Bass... I have mixed feelings. We don't *need* a large amp in many situations: I often just take my little MarkBass combo, as all it needs to do is serve me as stage monitor. I sometimes leave it in the car if I think it makes things easier and it sounds ok, and they provided it for me to use... but I always have my amp with me. Over time I have realised how some local bands -or certain individual members- never seem to take amps with them. I'm not going to be carrying my gear for them to have an easier night, so my general stance is not sharing. With people I know it's different, and whenever NUF is playing, if I'm in the bill too I'd offer my amp, no problem at all. I just hate feeling I've been taken advantage of. [/quote] Yes, I think there were some crossed wires with the promoter. We'd established that we'd use another band's drum kit (as this is that promoter with a bee in his bonnet about our drummer's kick drum), we mentioned that I'd bring a guitar amp when he asked if we needed one, but never discussed other bands using it. Fortunately there were no crazy speaker-blowing experimental noise projects on the bill! I'm getting quite insistent about not using house amps for guitar on those gigs, as what you end up with can be extremely patchy and I like the tremolo and reverb built in to mine. Although taking it home on the night bus to Oxgangs wasn't much fun! For bass it can be more workable, as so little amp sound makes it into FOH anyway.

I don't think Pantera can have come from the Era of Pants, since they mostly wore shorts IIRC...

In my situation, it would look kind of hypocritical for me to take a stand over it, since the drummer and bassist in my band were both using other bands' gear that night.

Since this seems to have become the official gear-share grumble thread, I had a guitar gig last night, let the guitarist from another band use my amp without prior arrangement, and he had the gall to complain that it didn't have a gain channel! If you're going to rely on whatever amp you can scrounge on the night, carrying your choice of overdrive pedal might be a good idea, no? At least nobody thrashed it or put drinks on top of it though...

I've no idea of the model, but the blurry logo on the right is shaped like the 80s/90s Carlsbro one.

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1431002274' post='2766762'] You are a very fortunate man. Trust me, if you think the band name's bad, the music is utterly contemptible. [/quote] Indeed, it's like a grotesque parody of pop if it were written by a greetings card company!

It's a question of how you use the scientific/engineering approach, isn't it? Ideally, ears and musicality decide what the goal is, the science helps you figure out how to get there. Those old JBLs have particular properties which a lot of musicians find pleasing, that much is undeniable. But if I wanted an explanation of what makes them sound that way and how else I might get that sound, I'd want to hear from someone with a bit of engineering background in the field.

None of the clips which are deliberate examples of playing behind the beat sound very good IMO, yet I love things like the Meters track posted above which are said to be behind the beat. Could this be because the ones set up as examples are moving the whole pattern behind the beat by the same amount, rather than playing with the position of individual notes?

Thanks for the link to Atlansia's facebook page. I love the drawings and slightly cryptic descriptions of what he's up to!

I'm quite partial to Charlie Hunter who does the extended range guitar/bass thing, though I guess he's sort of unique even among the ERB guys.

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1430751737' post='2764260'] I will probably my regret asking this but by why would anyone want a valve front end these days? If there is any magic in valves it comes from the output transformer and owner supply not the preamp. [/quote] Even if a valve preamp won't sound the same as a full valve setup, many of them still sound very good. And a valve preamp isn't really all that impractical; they're not especially bulky, don't kick out a lot of heat and don't need re-valving frequently compared to a valve power amp. So really, why not?

Yes, it would make sense if the instrument was put together to test the concept. It looks like they've put all the effort into the neck and then just bunged a quick body together to see if it would work. Still, the listing is upfront about it and hasn't priced it ambitously, so that's fair enough. I'd certainly give this one a go before the 15-string monstrosity on that other thread!

The finish on the body is 'orrible! It seems odd when the maker can clearly turn out really nice looking instruments.

I might have the innards of a Maxon single coil without the cover in one of my boxes of bits - I'll have a look tomorrow. It's from the version in the larger EB3 cover, but the coil and magnets are the same and you might be able to bodge it into the cover you've got.

[quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1430513509' post='2762296'] I mean Holt , who goes there ? [/quote] Otters?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1430581140' post='2762841'] On the beat (the standard approach), before the beat (aggressive/pushy), behind the beat (laid back groovy). Believe it or don't but those are [i]all [/i]valid ways of playing. [/quote] I've always found this intuitive way of thinking about it much easier to get my head around. If I think too hard about playing ahead or behind then I'll just play out of time, but visualising it as a spectrum going from pushy/eager/urgent at one end to that laid back greasy feel at the other end seems to amount to the same thing.

I wonder how they were running a pair of KT88 to get a 40 watt rated amp out of them. Most instrument amps seem focussed on wringing all the available output out of the valves, so was this more of a conservative, hi-fi sort of design? This could be interesting...