luckydog

I woke up this morning with pains in places I never knew I had places, and remembered grimly I had fallen off the stage yesterday. Very rock & roll. Except it happened packing up after the gig. I stepped backwards, carrying some gear, people saw it said I did a half twist in the air and landed on my side on top of the gear, otherwise could have been pretty nasty. As it happens, checking the damage this morning my left hand is sore and badly swollen above the middle metacarpels, left shin cut and bruised, sore back and more importantly pride is shattered ! I'll spend most of the day in A&E today getting a hand x-ray I expect.......... I don't suggest trying it (!), but ever fallen off the stage or seen it done? LD

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1468056591' post='3088310'] Doesn't sound like the signal chain is very good and at some point it is getting choked... He needs to chase the signal thru if you are running toppy and he is getting muffled. [/quote]Not much goes on of any interest above about 4kHz in rock bass guitar typically. So lacking top in bass actually means lacking upper mids really, in case that helps? Suspect the DI XLR interface if it happens on all channels of the desk ? Otherwise the cable may not be wired 'correctly' or may have a fault. Failing which, the amp's XLR interface might have a fault or not be able to drive the 600R termination from the desk. Or maybe the amp doesn't like phantom power, if that is on ? HTH! LD

How about head up display goggles ? Or projection onto the singer's back ? LD

That's interesting Scalpy. The best engineers make musicians feel comfortable. When you're happy and trust that they'll get the sound right, it feels better to play and no doubt sounds better for it. Grumpy engineers, and there's lots of them but not all, do exactly the opposite and are obstacles themselves to good performance and sound being good. Just recently we obtained a multitrack recording of our set from a good venue with a good happy engineer, who had used a mix of DI from guitar and an M-88 on the cab for FOH. The recording included both DI channel and mic channels seperately, post eq on the desk. They are very different sounds, and actually the guitar DI on its own sounds awful! My guess is he didn't use much of it. If it was just by itself, would need radical eq and compression on the desk, and even then would no doubt lack character of a real cab. LD

Oh my, that's good LD

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1467999299' post='3088003'] I play almost everything as fretted notes on a five string, if it gets moved 2 or 3 frets it's no biggie. [/quote] Yup, that's another way to fly ! LD

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1467473673' post='3083972'] Just set up for tonight's gig. Sound guy insisted on DI box. Basschat version of commentators curse! [/quote]Hopefully mic on the cab too...... if not, well worth asking for it. Sound off the cab is less safe, less control for engineers. But the option for at least some of cab sound worked in there makes for good sound. LD

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1467975068' post='3087688'] Personally I think the best way is to think of the chord numbers as opposed to the names. So instead of think G, C, D, think of it as I, IV, V. Then once you have found the root for the first chord it should be easier to play the necessary intervals. [/quote] Yes, that's the magic pill. If doing it on the fly is tough, as it can be, and if you have the pad or chords written out in a specific key, then mark it up with intervals and you're home in any key. LD

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1467971142' post='3087627'] I think Scott has the right approach in his learning by ear lesson. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMM7G5PXCvw[/media] [/quote]Thanks, that's a great lesson. Quite a few jazzers use that method, it helps to define what you're playing and get it from out of your head as a line into what you physically play. Learning to double your voice with the instrument, and some never give up vocalising esp improvisations. It all starts in yer head as a melody. Maybe much depends what internal narrative goes on inside yer head when playing basslines ? Could be the melody of the bassline itself, could be key/scale positions, could be names of notes, could be frt/string/finger positions, could be muscle memory for runs. I suspect it varies between players, and we all use some of them some of the time. LD

Yes, it's actually the output transformer that gets stressed with too high load. And the stress happens on transients, just an accident like plugging the guitar in pop, and it only takes one event if it's ever going to fail at all (which generally it doesn't phew!). Given the possible downside, it's best not to ! LD

I think that truly playing by ear, that is playing basslines directly you hear in yer head, is mostly about recognising intervals and chord structures in music. Eventually becoming informed guesses refined by trial and error. It must vary between people, though most players can sing and repeat lines so it must be up there somewhere for all of us I think. Maybe development of it depends on how one learns intervals on the first instruments one plays ? Though most musicians can sing melodies, I don't think that many consciously think of intervals, singing just comes naturally. Except in The Sound of Music (!) I think the end point of playing by ear is that one doesn't even think 'that's a VI', you just do it. Like dancing, it's better not to think about yer feet, and eventually that is natural. Interesting I think. LD

Perhaps most rock music sheet music is/was published for copyright purposes, not as a transcript of actual performances ? That's how it looks to me, I mean look at Beatles Complete for example ! LD

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1467892266' post='3087060'] Tab: - 8th fret on the A string, BAM! - I don't even care what note that was, I've already played it. Next! Music notation: - Ok I've worked out that dot means an F - Where are all the Fs? - Which one is nearest to my hand and will work best considering what notes come before and after? - Eeny meeny miny mo[/quote] Addressing the OP, it should strictly be "tab." or "Tab." being an abreviation ! I think it's a slippery slope if one doesn't care about the sense of what one is playing, in terms of key and scale location. Then the memory becomes mechanical or visual, and if one slips up somewhere along the line it can be tough to recover. Also tougher to improvise or vary. I don't mean it's better to think "F" either in dots or in tab, but better to think in terms of key and scale position, or not think at all. Strictly ! Just my 2p worth.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1467882449' post='3086897'] Seriously ? Sounds a bit hit and miss, and quite time consuming to me, [/quote]I get where Andrew is coming from. It's not random, players have a priori knowledge of playable finger patterns and positions. Knowing the key, often there is only one sane or efficient way to play a pattern, if it has any complexity. Then applying what we already know about playing mechanics and correcting by listening can be a pretty efficient way. LD

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1467757134' post='3086054']It helps to learn to understand intervals and what they sound like. Start with the basics - octave, fifth and fourth (ascending and descending). Some basic music theory will help as you will understand, for example, why chords !, IV and V (tonic, sub-dominant, and dominant) are important and how they will feature a lot in your bass playing and why. [/quote] Yes this is the essential element in playing by ear IMO: even those who do it without thinking are really using this method. Then one can hear and recognise, even anticipate, the structure of pretty much all songs as progressions, such as 12 bars being made up only from I IV and V chords. Then it doesn't matter what key you play you play it in if you think of it like this, and from a bass playing perspective each chord has a root note and a scale to play with. I don't know any easy web intros to the method, but there must be some. The one I do know is quite advanced and packed with theory which might be a put off, but it's Mark Levine's 'Jazz Theory'. If you ever wonder how jazzers improvise, this is the book, but the same principles apply to all music, even simple stuff. HTH! LD

Also Sprach Zarathustra ? Tonic - Dominant - Tonic (octave) in equal measures, the nature motif or world riddle. LD

Perhaps, but you'd need to be lucky, those tubes are pretty reliable normally. You could swap the two 12AX7s over and see if it makes any difference at all, if not then the tubes are prob fine. HTH ! LD

If nut height is too low it shows up playing 3-7 frets as 'back fouling', where strings foul frets behind the held fret. Sometimes which a clanky feel and sound, but lacking elasticity and proper feel when making the note. Too high shows up as a high open string playing action, a long way to depress open stings when fretting and a slow action, not nimble. All other things on setup being equal. HTH! LD

Seems I'm in the minority that seldom opens a bass case at home unless there is something specific to work on. I wouldn't advocate this, don't know how I get away with it really but it seems to have little effect. Think all the wiring upstairs is permanent by now, arms and fingers strong. LD

[quote name='philw' timestamp='1467052817' post='3080847'] All, My new Surf Jag ([url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/287400-nbd-jagtele-mashup/"]http://basschat.co.u...jagtele-mashup/[/url]) needs its neck shimmed up a little - a millimetre or so. In the past I've used pieces of card for this kind of thing, but what's the preferred material among the proper luthiers out there? Ta Phil [/quote] I'm not a luthier, but I once made a shim for that sort of thickness from a thin single piece of solid mahogany, planed and sanded. Or I suppose one could laminate hardwood veneer sheets by gluing with PVA and pressing them together ? LD

There are two main reasons headline bands often have different and generally better sound at events even with quality PA/engineers: 1. They often bring their own engineers who are not only good but know the band's sound. 2. Headline band(s) often do a thorough soundcheck, and decent desks have automation and can remember and recall setups for each band (from the soundcheck) at the press of a button or two. Though events are different from regular gigs, such principles can still be applied to small setups. And at events, be sure to do a thorough soundcheck if at all possible, and bring yer own engineers if they are up to the calibre of the event and equipment, and tell the event crew in advance. HTH! LD

In the recorded DI channel straight off of the guitar, I was surprised at how hard I was hitting it playing live, and how much driven tone was coming from the instrument itself. It's a Pbass picked, no effects, 'light side of heavy rock' some say. LD

Yes, in the example I mentioned above DI was taken just before the input to the amp, but might as well have been DI from the amp pre eq. I can see the sense in that, in the chef analogy, pre eq at the amp is unseasoned ! LD

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1467150285' post='3081576'] The best analogy I can think of would be the singer. When Kiemsa were active (ska/punk/rock...), we had a sound man in the team who knew exactly what was required (he'd been in the team from the start, including the studio sessions for the albums...), and 'played' the console depending on the needs of the songs. A bit of reverb here, a large dose of echo at an appropriate moment, for all of the channels, throughout the concert. For a specific sound, from the bass, guitar or whatever, he'd do the necessary magic and it worked a treat. Yes, the bass was post-eq (and fx...), but there was still work going on at the desk. If one has a dedicated sound man, I don't see any problem. Things are different if there's someone on the console that knows nothing of the repertoire, or even the style of the band before sound check (if there even is a sound check..!). I've done this in the past, and there's no way that I could know if the bass (or anything else...) was what the band wanted to public to hear, or when the singer was going to chat to the public, and needed the fx cut. All I could do would be to get the best sound FOH that I thought best fitted what I heard, often for the first time, and 'live'. If the bass sounds bad (to me...) I'd correct it as best as I could. There's no accounting for tastes, and doubtless my mixing (or anyone else's, in the same circumstances...) could be less than optimum, but that's the price one pays for not touring with one's own rig, riggers and sound bloke. Same for lights (I've done years of that...); when is a blackout to be used..? When to 'spot' a soloist..? When does the tempo change..? One gets used to it, but it's not the same as having an experienced team that know the ropes. A clean feed is a minimum in that case, plus a mic on the cab if possible, and mix 'em. That's my recipe, anyway. [/quote]Yes, way to fly for sure. A FOH engineer once recorded a multitrack of our set, which was post desk EQ as it happens. So I got to hear my raw bass sounds as applied to the PA. At the desk, DI was compressed and EQ'd to provide the bottom end, cab mic was compressed and EQ'd to provide mostly mids and a surprising amount of upper mids and top. Listening to either channel on its own sounded nothing like the original bass sound, but when combined and applied to the PA in that room it sounded great I'm told, and other bands using our backline certainly did. IIRC it was a 20kW PA rig in a med-large venue. It's a kitchen, and engineers are chefs: best to leave them to do the seasoning, not apply one's own salt.. LD

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1466949459' post='3079900'] After a little advice from players / engineers who can advise on getting a good bass sound through the pa. ............ I really wanted to hire in pa and engineer but the budget wouldn't allow. [/quote] Hi mrtcat, I think you already answered it, there's a definite art and it mostly lies in engineers who have it. Perhaps 1/3 equipment and 2/3 engineer. Ultimately it seems to start with having good original sound from the instrument and amp only just loud enough on stage from the amp to produce the sound you want, use bass in the monitors to get the level you need for stage sound, then foh is the kitchen of Eq and compression to work with the other sounds of the band and the room/space. It's pretty unlikely that DIY will be in the same league, unfortunately.......... HTH! LD