Cuzzie

All in good faith my man, as I hope mine are taken

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1496481871' post='3311752']


I also have a lot of Musicman basses including one I bought new late last year. The quality on them all is consistently top notch. Their plan, they say, was to produce some old school classic styled passive basses to compliment their new guitar models - their single coil exposed pole pick ups have been around for many years, so they're not really copying Sandberg - more they and Sandberg are making basses which are loosely (or not so dependent on which maker) based on Fender.

In the US, people have referred to the new MM passive basses as on a par with boutique stuff like Sadowski. I'm sure Sandberg are excellent as well but I too would be extremely surprised if MM took substandard instruments to a show.

The London BGS is not the place to spend time with bass equipment unless you're not bothered about the crowds of people and din of slapping going on - and din it really is - unless you stick around in the exhibition whilst a big draw is on stage - very pleasant then 👍
[/quote]

Completely agree with what you say about both makes, and about the Din at the show, so I made no judgement calls on the sound. It was a pure feel of the instrument and a comparison to other MM's I have played.
All sound bites other wise I have heard were great.

The thing for me was the Albert Lee which was the last one produced according to them and was a few years older than the others was a better feel.
This is just comparing it to 90s and early 2000s basses I have played.
Picked up a 90s Slo neck Ray before and that was the absolute beans no question

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1496447857' post='3311595']


That's OK. I can no more say you're wrong than you can of me. I'm just surprised you feel that way as my experience of MM is that they put their instruments together very well indeed. My latest one is absolutely faultless and I am super critical. Also, it's not just that one. I think I have about eight of them at the moment and have played many others. There are other worthy recipients I could think of much more deserving of a good finger wagging over QC issues that I would put ahead of MM.
[/quote]

Fair point and you are right some truly awful stuff out there, I think I was overly terse and a little tongue in cheek as someone had put a picture of an MM hence the comment, otherwise I would not had said it at all.
In my defence (!) to me it only seemed like the newer basses they had on display (I picked up every one they displayed at the bass show) that felt different and a little cheaper compared other basses they had produced throughout the years. Granted my experience of them is way less than yours, but I had a mate with me who would sit in between us with regards to experience in Rays and he felt the same thing.
I am not sure if it was the lacquer or something else, but even amongst the same range the necks felt different on each and whilst light the body felt cheaper and a little soul less, nothing like my previous experiences, and I had gone in potentially cash in hand for a Caprice or Cutlass.
In contrast the Sandberg booth basses (and I didn't like them all) overall felt of a better quality.

But yes, I agree with your comments, reckon I gave unfair demonisation and was a little too scathing, however for me the Sandberg's like or loathe the sound still have a little edge on production as there is currently still more of a handmade personal element to them I think

Cheers

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1496447857' post='3311595']


That's OK. I can no more say you're wrong than you can of me. I'm just surprised you feel that way as my experience of MM is that they put their instruments together very well indeed. My latest one is absolutely faultless and I am super critical. Also, it's not just that one. I think I have about eight of them at the moment and have played many others. There are other worthy recipients I could think of much more deserving of a good finger wagging over QC issues that I would put ahead of MM.
[/quote]

Fair point and you are right some truly awful stuff out there, I think I was overly terse and a little tongue in cheek as someone had put a picture of an MM hence the comment, otherwise I would not had said it at all.
In my defence (!) to me it only seemed like the newer basses they had on display (I picked up every one they displayed at the bass show) that felt different and a little cheaper compared other basses they had produced throughout the years. Granted my experience of them is way less than yours, but I had a mate with me who would sit in between us with regards to experience in Rays and he felt the same thing.
I am not sure if it was the lacquer or something else, but even amongst the same range the necks felt different on each and whilst light the body felt cheaper and a little soul less, nothing like my previous experiences, and I had gone in potentially cash in hand for a Caprice or Cutlass.
In contrast the Sandberg booth basses (and I didn't like them all) overall felt of a better quality.

But yes, I agree with your comments, reckon I gave unfair demonisation and was a little too scathing, however for me the Sandberg's like or loathe the sound still have a little edge on production as there is currently still more of a handmade personal element to them I think

Cheers

Hi Hiram,

I am fully prepared to be wrong, I am not sure it was the lacquer or something else they were using, but when I went to the bass show I was full of excitement to try a Caprice and Cutlass, but the ones on display were awful, even the Ray, The Albert Lee was great.

Really disappointed as older Ray's I have tried seemed better and it's not just because they were worn in

Still both sets are fine basses

Also try other makes out of the usual big if you can, for example the Jeff Berlin Cort bass has one of the best bridge pick ups you will find

There is no wrong or right, just what is right for you

Dead zone is bass specific

P's and J's are great basses both will serve you well.

My advice work out which you want first and get a quality one, save up and then get the other one then all basses covered

Yep Agreed with the above

Mark is a good guy at classic and cool, dealt with him in the past, he has a few in stock, but if you are going bespoke depending on what you want it can be up to 9 months.
Main reason for this is if you get the full masterpiece treatment, they don't have many people (maybe only 1) doing the ageing as they are so precise about it

Yep Musicman copying Sandberg except they put their guitars together real cheap and they feel awful, at least the new crop do

@ead nice set, and that Dakota red, lush.

I love the aged look, but that one is a fine piece of art all pristine

Well if we are starting photo's

Got em near enough the same colour so the Mrs only thinks I have 1 bass.....

Oh you also forgot to add how the generation II Californias have different sleeker shapes, lighter bodies and are more ergonomically sculptured than the Fenders and are beautifully balanced so it takes away from the mystique of back pain, being a stronger person By wielding a heavier bass....

[quote name='Misdee' timestamp='1496345171' post='3310769']
I'll talk you out of a Sandberg.

The headstock is too big and ungainly. And those oversized single magnet slugs on the Fender -style pickups don't look right.


And I don't like the name either.
[/quote]


Standard pick ups, you can choose large pole vs small pole and 2 Per string depending on your preference in how magnets pick up string vibrations as well as your Alnico generation.

Other than that valid cosmetic points Dali vs Picasso vs Rembrandt etc

My physics is basic, but the figures they rarely publish are the duration of the wattage and whether it is continuous despite the numerous bursts we should not audibly notice.
My guess is the Elf will not give 200W continuous ad infinitum and tail off and the sound will drop or it will overheat.

The key to these power devices is do you use Tripath, ICE or Hypex power for them, each has their own benefits and sound from more sterile to warm, and then you modulate your pulse width.
If you want continuous sound you have to cool, so if you take the dUg Ultrabass for example and take the top off, most of the inside is space.

It will be really tricky to get a powerful bass amp tiny, but we are getting them light

My 2 pence on the paint job - I couldn't care less what it looked like, if it does the job, the dials are easy to read and use I am in.

I agree with no switches on the side, everything has to be up top, even on my beloved Cali76G, the Germanium dial is at the back, unseen, so any changes in the fly are hard to see.

Am currently going through the website and sound bites to see what they are like etc. Although I am just a happy hacker who won't change the world, but likes gear so I will take no offence if my wish list is ignored!!

First impressions for me is I like the range, and local, it's always good

Oh and I use a Two Notes Le Bass and or a Hartke VXL, Cali76G compressor into a Darkglass amp.

Also played it through a Hartke LH1000, and a PJB Bass Bass CUB

All sound great.

I am not an Aggie man, but would never disuade someone if that is what your ears are calling you to

[quote name='Westenra' timestamp='1496328542' post='3310583']
Whoa wasn't expecting such love for the Bergs! Could the VM emulate that jazz bridge solo'd sound? I'd personally like to have a "Swiss army knife" bass where it can be super modern, then with a twist, probably into passive mode, have a old school P sound and a solo'd jazz one too.

What kind of amps are people playing them through? Caving into the Aguilar TH350 pressure!
[/quote]

Depends on what kind of jazz sound you want?

The neck pup on the Jazz gets close to a P sound and the tone roll off is very responsive.

The Jazz sound is lovely.

A TT Jazz will give you this with a more modern twist as the bridge pup is closer to the neck, again delano's more hifi, sandberg or Haussel pups more warm and vintage.

The TSBS is a string through and the pups are slightly in between, not a huge difference IMO, and I don't like the yellow.

MarloweDK has a slimmer neck than other TT's, different ageing pattern to the body and the bridge pup is closer to the bridge giving it a more 70s Barky feel when dialled in.

The way to see a VM is like a P bass but with more clarity for pushing through in a live setting, you may not get the satisfaction you want from the M bucker alone.

Fully passive or active and passive is purely your choice.
I have a lot of pre-amp pedal push so purely passive is good for me.

To me they do some of the best ageing, if you like that.

As Cilla would say, the decision is yours...

Lewis, you a guy who knows his stuff, but i agree the set up is really clear esp the tecamp and if you had Delano's there is your answer.

Delano's prob better live as they are clearer and a little hotter, Sandberg pups more vintage

Universally whether people liked the sound or not, NO ONE doubts build quality

DEFINITELY not TT pups

I even messaged Sandberg direct and they said Split pick up neck and M pick up bridge.

Some web reviews say the split is at the bridge, this is wrong.

So it's probably a VM either that or an MM

If anyone out there has one, please take off the covers and share?!

Mark at classic and cool guitars in Devon has one for sale now and has a few popped through his shop so he may well be able to confirm or deny

So the 48's pups are housed in the metal casing.

The neck pick up is generally a split coil and the bridge an M, so essentially a VM4 in another body, however I had an online chat with Marc at Chicago Music Exchange and he was involved in designing these basses and he mentioned them having 2 massive buckers.

I think if you get a used one look carefully, but also if you go for a new one you may be able to choose your combination as well as finish, ageing, treatment etc

Westenra,

44-60 is a jazz bass ( if I am correct) so comparing it with a VM4 is not strictly cricket.
VM is a great bass that will give you a P sound and if you blend in the M humbucker will allow clarity live to hit through the mix, in itself the M pick up will not emulate a Stingray although it looks similar.
Delano pick ups are more modern and hi fi, sandberg pups more warm and retro when you look at basses.
The TT bass will be a straight shoot out with the 44-60 and I think it would win, the Marlowe DK whilst a Jazz bass has 79s pickup placement with the bridge being closer to the bridge hence a more gritty 'barky' sound.

Conceivably you could add the Sandberg VM4 to your Lakland and be a winner, however once it is in your stable you will see the difference between that and a Lakland and move across (more than likely)

If your rig has enough power and transparency defo look at things like a sansamp or another Pre amp pedal to mould things to the sound in your head

Westora

They are phenomenal

QC better than a Lakland, all around a better bass (no offence to anyone)

I shipped out my Fender and G&Ls when I got one, now I have 2 a VS4 and a MarloweDK

Hartke LH500 or LH1000 will give you a big clean sound, remember that 'flat' on the EQ is Bass and Treble on 3 and mids on 10.
Reliable and should not let you down. They are big-ish though.
The TX600 though lighter and smaller is not as goo or powerful IMO.
Hartke (the right one) are Probably one of the best bang for your buck around.

VT500 will be a fine amp with the sansamp circuit in it giving a great overdriven sound and second hand at around £300 is a good deal. It's cheaper compared to their other stuff as it is made in Korea instead of the states, but as far as I know no quality issues.

Question is where you put your money?
Slightly more refined head and less good speakers, or the other way round?!

The other thing of course is how quickly you need something, if it's now, choice is limited and jump on the Hartke, if it's not now, you may still jump in the Hartke but you have time to play a few.
My Hartke LH1000 served me well although ultimately I did change but for personal preference, not for lack of useability

I agree it's a bit harsh, sorry, but compared to the LH500/1000 HA it does not really stack up