Bronner

In doing some more research on the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]SGD guy who was trying to build a clone of a Wal pickup I found an audio link that shows a comparison between the pickup he made and an actual Wal pickup. Here it is:[/font][/color] [url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/wal-vs-sgd-wal-clone-soundbyte-included.1099119/"]http://www.talkbass....cluded.1099119/[/url] So the SGD guy actually built -- or attempted to build -- a Wal style pickup. Before I was under the impression that he hadn't built one at all. To my ears the *clone* pickup is lacking in clarity, low-end punch and volume. (Could it be the different preamps? I don't know.) How close did he get to replicating the Wal pickup? I'd say *kind of* or *sort of* half way there. The clone pickup is very mid-rangy (might not be bad for fretless bass actually). The example is on a fretted bass -- so for me that's not really interesting: I like the Wal sound on fretless mostly. (Fretted isn't bad, but for me there are other good options.) This is my taste. At least a sound clip exists so people can judge for themselves. As always when talking about gear and tone comparisons, audio clips are the way to go. The real error in the comparison is that the pickups weren't compared in passive mode. - Does the clone sound like a Wal on that clip? Maybe a little/Not really. - Is it possible the clone pickup has some useful application? It's possible; doesn't sound horrible. - Is it possible the clone sounds more like a Wal pickup that the sound clip reveals? Yes, because two different preamps were used and there will be some coloration to the tone added or subtracted. [u][b]UPDATE[/b][/u]: Just listened to the comparison again through different monitors. The pickups (or possibly the preamps) do sound different, but a little less different than I first thought. If the clone was available and reasonably priced I'd carve a hole in a cheap bass and try it out; why not? Assuming the patent on the Wal pickup has expired, which seems likely, the guy that tried to clone the pickup should find a reliable Chinese manufacturer and offer them at an inexpensive price so those who want to try one can. How offended am I in the Wal-cloners design efforts? Let's put it this way: I'm a lot more offended at what Fender has put out for the last 20 years under the "Stratocaster," "Telecaster," "Jazz Bass," and "Precision Bass" brand names. A lot of those newer instruments are horrible replicas of the originals -- in a phrase they're: shoddy clones.

Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were great together. I highly recommend seeing the fairly recent documentary on Ginger Baker.

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426603001' post='2719743'] That was what I was getting at. It did not end well. [/quote] I tried to read the whole thread. I'll say this: Your products sound good, and I'm pretty fussy about tone. I think some of the people that own Warwicks and put in your preamp should make videos. There are a lot of corvettes out there, and while the pickup is good; it lacks in the type of tone that is the subject of this thread. What I'm saying is that there may be a bigger market for your pre. The passive fretless Warwicks are a nice piece of wood, but a one trick pony in the tone department. The 'E' and 'A' strings sound nice, while the 'D' and 'G' strings lack. I used the Warwick corvette on 'Little Wing' here: [url="https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/freddieroulettedaphneblu"]https://www.cdbaby.c...ulettedaphneblu[/url] It's *ok* with the right set of speakers, but I would have preferred your preamp or the Wal. I think the rest of the recordings, apart from the one that's 40 years old, are the Hofner bass. * Correction: Sleepwalk / Neptune's Kingdom is the stock Warwick fretless too.

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426542389' post='2719230'] I supplied the pre-amp for that bass as far as I know. I would suggest you search on talkbass about the pickup builder to find out the situation regarding the company. [/quote] The thread was 1,000+ posts long. I read it for about 30-40 minutes, and couldn't tell what happened in the end, though my guess is that something went drastically wrong. The builders page just shows a picture of a pickup that *kind of* looks like a Wal pickup, but with no sound clips or reviews ... without any clue as to what was made, how it was made, how it sounds or if it's good or bad, or whatever. Just a picture. I try to buy gear with my ears and less my eyes, so it doesn't help me.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1426543740' post='2719254'] Yep - me for one. [/quote] 1. Did you use the passive MEC pickups that came with the Warwick? 2. Your bass is fretless? Sound clips please. If you have some sound clips or video of the bass, I'd love to hear it; that's exactly the type of information I'm looking for. And in the process you'd be helping ACG sell some preamps. The issue with after-market parts always is knowing how it will sound in a particular instrument.

Okay, so in my quest to achieve this elusive Wal tone, I came across 2 links: First one looks like someone tried to clone a Wal completely; I have no idea how successful they were. Interesting though that it's a through neck design. http://dbbasses.com/page4.php Second link I found looks like someone tried to clone a Wal pickup and that thread appears to have rambled on for several years, and I can't tell what happened apart from the thread just stopping. Don't try to read the whole thing; you'll just get a headache. http://www.talkbass.com/threads/won-the-wal-pickup-on-ebay.432803/page-48

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1426528950' post='2718962'] I have a few vides on the sight done by Joe who nails the Wal tone pretty well. The bass does. It have the multi coils in it but does have the EQ01 filter preamp. Have alok in the media section on my site. [/quote] Yes this preamp is very good. Previously heard it. Questions for you: 1. Do you think the Pre amp will sound ok with the pickups the standard corvette fretless comes with? (They are actually good pickups for more of an acoustic fretless sound). 2. For the 5 knob version, is it possible to switch the preamp off and use only the passive tone? [b]2-Pickup, 5-Knob[/b][list] [*]Volume/Blend Stack [*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Neck Pickup [*]Stacked Filter Frequency/Filter Peak for Bridge Pickup [*]Treble Frequency/Treble Level [*]Passive Tone [/list] By the way, if you build that PreAmp, it's a really good one. Job well done.

[quote name='tonybassplayer' timestamp='1426491243' post='2718363'] Hi, band want to do Peter Greens Oh Well and not convinced what is out on the web is totally accurate and its a bit fast for my old ears ( and fingers by the sound of it ) but just wondered if anyone could point me in the right direction or has a decent tab sheet for it. Many thanks Tony [/quote] I like the Peter Green version too; played it many times. But I don't have a tab on hand, however, I would also recommend Billy Gibbon's version (ZZ Top); plays the riff slow, so at least it gives you an audio example. It's a good reinterpretation of the song.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1426524054' post='2718824'] There are thousands.... I could go on forever...... [/quote] Go on forever brother, that's the whole point. Seasoned bass players and beginners alike will benefit from having a list of great bass lines, tones and approaches to the instrument. Nice list by the way.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1426517750' post='2718720'] Wal pickups are fairly unusual in that they have seperate windings for each pole piece within the pickup... In my opinion this is what gives Wal basses their unique tone, more so than the filter preamp as the characteristic burp is there regardless of the EQ settings. It's not that the preamp is irrelevent, far from it, I find it intuative and powerful without being overly complicated, but I do think it's the pickups that contribute mostly to the sound of a Wal. The only other manufacturers offering pickups similar to this as far as I know are ACG and Enfield and they will not sell you a set seperate from one of their instruments (understandably) Also both these manufacturers make their multi coil pickups in a soapbar size casing not a jazz replacement as you would need. [/quote] Rob, Thanks for info. Really appreciate it. Now looking at a Wal pickup I see there are some similarities to the old Ovation Magnum. http://www.ovationtribute.com/Ovation_Guitars_Patents/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent/Magnum_1979_Bass_Pickup_Patent.html

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1426518605' post='2718740'] Glad you liked that. The Labi Siffre for me is all about that classic muted tone, not necessarily a killer line, but again, plays to the song brilliantly. [/quote] Also re-listened to Son of a Preacher Man. Nice bass line on that one too. Clever because the bass is actually fairly busy, but doesn't crowd the vocals. The bass also really helps establish a kind of jubilant and playful feel, which is important to keeping a lively mood. I liked that song before, but never really noticed the bass until you pointed it out. Do you know the brand of bass that's being used (it's a nice tone for a slow song, especially if one wants to play busy but not anger the singer)? If I had to take a wild guess I would say those are flat wound strings, but I'm not really sure.

[quote name='skywalker' timestamp='1426517745' post='2718719'] Nights in White Satin - Moody Blues Rolling in the Deep - Adele Smooth Operator - Sade Make Me Smile - Steve Harley Black Velvet - Alannah Myles Candy - Paolo Nitini Any of the Cream above + Wonderful Tonight Fly me to the Moon - Sinatra version Might not be everyone's cup of tea but I like them. [/quote] No need to apologize for the songs you chose. Everyone likes something. Just listening to Sade, 'Smooth Operator' ... nice fretless tone and you are right, hard to imagine the song being as good without that bass line. Velvety tone, like the singer. Really good job by the bass of matching the feel of the overall composition with tone and line. Well done.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1426511243' post='2718606'] The three that always pop into my head are: Simon & Garfunkel Hazy Shade of Winter (Joe Osborn) Dusty Springfield Son of a Preacher Man (Tommy Cogbill) Labi Siffre It Must Be Love (don't know bass player) [/quote] Just re-listened to Hazy Shade of Winter. Tastefully done, very musical. On the verses the bass plays double-time with the snare to push the beat, then there's a little walking bit in-between the gaps when the other instruments drop out, and then the bass drops out of parts of verses for effect. A musician's approach, much like the way McCartney is a musician first and bass player second. Bass was played with a view as to totality of the composition. Very nice. Will listen to the rest.

[quote name='rogerstodge' timestamp='1426426158' post='2717911'] How about Badge by cream? [/quote] Sweet! Great one! Can't believe it jumped off my list and I forgot about it. And thanks to everyone for adding your favorites. Will be sure to listen to them all.

[u][b]My Bass[/b][/u]: Warwick Corvette Fretless, Passive Pickups in 2 J-bass configuration. I would like your advice on: [u][b]The Tone I am After[/b][/u]: 1. I would like to change the pickups (&/or add a preamp) to get tone closer to a Wal fretless bass (something like Mick Karn). Any suggestions on changing the pickups or adding a preamp for achieving this objective. Your experiences with after-market pickups or preamps in the J-bass configuration is welcome. (N.B. [i]I know buying a Wal is easier, and wood type makes a difference, etc. ... but any information on getting a passive corvette to sound more like a Wal is welcome[/i].) [u][b]Next best bit of advice:[/b][/u] 2. Okay. Maybe you don't play fretless or haven't heard Mick Karn's tone. Have you changed your passive Warwick pickups in the J-bass configuration to another brand? What brand was it? Can you tell me about the tone changes? Was it better for you? Many thanks.

Lovely Bass Lines - My List. Feel welcome to share yours. CREAM: Sunshine of Your Love Crossroads Outside woman blues BEATLES: Hey Bulldog With a little help from my friends Something Rain DURAN DURAN Rio New Religion Last Chance on the Stairway CHIC Good Times LED ZEPPELIN The Lemon Song Dazed and Confused Ramble On JAPAN The art of parties All tomorrow’s parties Suburban Berlin Adolescent Sex PAUL YOUNG Gonna tear your playhouse down LOU REED Take a walk on the wild side JAMES BROWN It’s too funky in here THE DOORS Riders on the Storm Peace Frog PINK FLOYD Money ABC Show Me Many Happy Returns RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS Around the world

... Sorry for the cut & paste [b][u]Freddie Roulette News: [/u][/b] The album regarded as lap steel legend Freddie Roulette’s best work is now on sale for the amazing price of $3 at CD Baby. The album also accompanies a YouTube documentary film on the making of the album with Freddie talking about his life, history with Daphne Blue, and his lap steel style. The album also features a previously unreleased recording of Freddie Roulette and Earl Hooker, which sat in the vaults for more than 35 years. [b][i]Daphne Blue & Freddie Roulette: The Legendary Blues Instrumentals.[/i][/b] [b]Full Album on Sale for $3.00 at CD Baby[/b] [url="https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/freddieroulettedaphneblu"]https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/freddieroulettedaphneblu[/url] A Mini-Documentary film on the making of the Daphne Blue & Freddie Roulette album is on [b]YouTube[/b]. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qh7ELzF_P0"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qh7ELzF_P0[/url] [b][u]From the Blues Encyclopedia: [/u][/b] “ 'Daphne-Blue-Ray' was the teenage guitar prodigy that replaced the legendary Earl Hooker. He was hand-picked by Earl Hooker’s backing band, who were also members of backing bands for Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, and Willie Dixon. Ray was a natural sage of the electric guitar; a young white cat who stunned the Chicago blues scene at fourteen years-old and formed a life-long musical partnership with Freddie Roulette, who was the lap steel guitar player in Earl Hooker’s band.” “Freddie Roulette is the legendary American electric blues lap steel guitarist and singer credited for influencing countless blues and rock artists. He is often cited as the best musician to play the lap steel guitar. Roulette is also a life-long member of the Daphne Blue band, and has collaborated with Earl Hooker, Country Joe McDonald, Charlie Musselwhite, Canned Heat, Henry Kaiser, Harvey Mandel, John Lee Hooker and he has released several solo albums. Roulette is best known for his recordings with Earl Hooker and Daphne Blue, which is a continuation of Earl Hooker’s band.”

[b][u]Freddie Roulette News: [/u][/b] The album regarded as lap steel legend Freddie Roulette’s best work is now on sale for the amazing price of $3 at CD Baby. The album also accompanies a YouTube documentary film on the making of the album with Freddie talking about his life, history with Daphne Blue, and his lap steel style. The album also features a previously unreleased recording of Freddie Roulette and Earl Hooker, which sat in the vaults for more than 35 years. [b][i]Daphne Blue & Freddie Roulette: The Legendary Blues Instrumentals.[/i][/b] [b]Full Album on Sale for $3.00 at CD Baby[/b] [url="https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/freddieroulettedaphneblu"]https://www.cdbaby.c...ulettedaphneblu[/url] A Mini-Documentary film on the making of the Daphne Blue & Freddie Roulette album is on [b]YouTube[/b]. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qh7ELzF_P0"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qh7ELzF_P0[/url] [b][u]From the Blues Encyclopedia: [/u][/b] “ 'Daphne-Blue-Ray' was the teenage guitar prodigy that replaced the legendary Earl Hooker. He was hand-picked by Earl Hooker’s backing band, who were also members of backing bands for Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, and Willie Dixon. Ray was a natural sage of the electric guitar; a young white cat who stunned the Chicago blues scene at fourteen years-old and formed a life-long musical partnership with Freddie Roulette, who was the lap steel guitar player in Earl Hooker’s band.” “Freddie Roulette is the legendary American electric blues lap steel guitarist and singer credited for influencing countless blues and rock artists. He is often cited as the best musician to play the lap steel guitar. Roulette is also a life-long member of the Daphne Blue band, and has collaborated with Earl Hooker, Country Joe McDonald, Charlie Musselwhite, Canned Heat, Henry Kaiser, Harvey Mandel, John Lee Hooker and he has released several solo albums. Roulette is best known for his recordings with Earl Hooker and Daphne Blue, which is a continuation of Earl Hooker’s band.”

You can do anything that sounds good. Guitar amps for bass? First Led Zeppelin album.

With a Little Help From My Friends. Bass does a counter melody to Ringo's voice. Genius.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1420939618' post='2655387'] why its taken me this long after 15 Fenders to get to this way of thinking,? I'm not sure. maybe playing a Lakland J04 was the beginning of the end . i know I'm fed up with trying to find a good one. the conclusion is there are builders out there who can do that (my favourite tone) 70's jazz bass tone, but way better construction. I'm done with Fender. I've experienced too much sh*t. if i had played Lakland's or Sadowsky's all this time i wouldn't be posting. i still want a good Fender P Bass, but the Fender Jazz is just not for me anymore. I'm sure there are some great Fenders out there but I'm bored of trying to find one. Give me a interpretation any day. show me a Fender that can match a Lakland or the better copies and i will play it. until then i will say goodbye to Leo. [/quote] 100% agree with this. I got so fed up I started to build my own Fenders from raw materials. I feel that modern-made Fender guitars/basses are frequently poor impersonations of older models. What you're really buying is the logo on the headstock. If you buy peanut butter, you don't want it to taste like toothpaste.

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1423739771' post='2688407'] Interesting you think that as I thought the complete opposite about my fretted corvette. I found it cut through the mix very strongly when I was playing heavy music (and indeed it still does) but when I joined a more pop-rock band it was at times a bit too growly so I bought a Jazz for a more scaled back sound.Maybe it's a fretted/fretless thing. [/quote] My corvette is passive. Guessing yours has active pickups. The active ones I've heard, even fretless models, seem reasonably suited for slap bass, in that they had more in the oomph department and have the treble qualities important for slap. To my ears, the passive fretless corvette (PFC) is more appropriate for playing anything that you may otherwise use a double-bass for, e.g., songs by the Stray Cats or Charles Mingus. The tone of the PFC is nothing like the sound of Mick Karn's fretless Wal. It's not really that type of up-front sound. The PFC is its own creature; I really like it, but it's different. It's hard to get rid of, but if you're more into a *lead* bass sound, I think you will find yourself craving an instrument that is closer to a Wal fretless. One thing that is fun with the PFC is to use a really heavy pick and dig in instead of using fingers because the bass is subdued so you can really attack the strings without sounding obnoxious. By the way, I enjoyed writing "Lead Bass" ... very spinal tap. My Warwick also has the original synthetic nut, and now they have optional brass nuts. This should make at least some difference (at least when open strings are used). In terms of the body wood, hardware, neck and attention to detail during assembly on the older German corvettes, they are just so well engineered and designed. I'd give those qualities a 10 out of 10. I don't even particularly like the aesthetics of the brown-stained bubinga finish -- so I'm not even swayed by the appearance of the bass -- but when holding one of those old corvettes, you really feel like you have something really nice in your hands. The first time I picked up an early model German corvette, I remember thinking the bass was under-priced by several thousand dollars when compared to one-off custom basses. What I wish the older passive fretless corvettes had is a magic mojo switch that could get the Wal sound without disturbing the double-bass tones the bass does so well.