Bronner

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1427062492' post='2725402'] Lennon never played a Ric, it was Lemmy. [/quote] But hopefully you realize that the real point is that he suggested that Lennon has a greater right than others to criticize a brand (in his case Jesus). Whereas, I say people have an equal right to criticize.

[quote name='bumnote' timestamp='1427061584' post='2725383'] Now I think you are getting ideas above your station [/quote] I disagree with you. Lennon's right to level a criticism is also the same right you and I possess. Nobody seriously believes the right of free expression should vest more strongly in pop stars, actors, dog groomers, or whatever. Your right to express yourself should be equal to Lennon's right (or whomever). Thanks for making my point about the Stalinist rationales underlying some of the attempts here to derail one persons's criticisms of a bass.

[quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1427060208' post='2725345'] Many of the criticisms you have seem to be aimed at their basses in general [/quote] I do think that for the 1500 price tag of a Ric you can get more bass for your money from other brands. If I criticize the truss rod design in the Ric I had that would apply to other Rics that utilize that same design feature. But that doesn't change that the basis for my criticism is the instrument I bought. If you wanted to be fair about it, you'd point out that it's nonsensical when someone suggests that I have the power to stop them from buying a Ric.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1426969642' post='2724333'] why lock it? ... Don't like it? Don't read it. ... I say let people discuss whatever they please. [/quote] [size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I completely agree; The right to free and fair debate about a product includes the opportunity to voice one's opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment. What's particularly odd is that expression is also backbone of making (music is also a form of expression). So, to see so many attempts to derail expression among musicians is ironic, disturbing, and completely at odds with the characteristics good musicians usually have. You know what it reminds me of? When Lennon said the 'Beatles were bigger than Jesus.' And the hecklers and record burners worked themselves into a frenzy to ban the Beatles. Just change the comment about Jesus to a comment about Rickenbackers. [/font][/size]

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1426986988' post='2724509'] I'm off up town tomorrow to buy meself a 4003 and a Ric coffee mug. Deal with it Bronner. [/quote] You have the ability to buy whatever you want. I am not standing in the way of your right to purchase a bass or a banjo (of any make or model). Even if I had the power to prevent you from purchasing something, I wouldn't exercise that power because personal choice is a fundamental and basic right. So is the right to express an opinion about a product. The real issue is that there are those set on trying to dissuade me from [u]having and expressing an opinion about an instrument that [color=#ff0000][b]I[/b][/color] bought[/u].

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1426966311' post='2724250'] no-one's actually disputing many of the points you make - it's more the manner in which you're making them that's rubbing people up the wrong way.[/quote] People can choose to believe they are 'rubbed the wrong way' or the 'right way' based on someone else's opinion of a product. It's not something I lose sleep over. I don't get bent out of shape when people have opinions about tooth paste brands or tennis rackets either.

[quote name='The Badderer' timestamp='1426954095' post='2723972'] You opened this post at just after midnight, on a Saturday morning.... [/quote] I didn't know there was a rule or aspersions would be cast for opening a post "[b][i]just after midnight, on a Saturday morning[/i][/b]." Of course, that's my mistake, I should have realized that the time the post was made was really the time the giant metal Donkey Harness over the Ric's bridge pickup is supposed to be praised as a work of art worthy of being exhibited in the Louvre.

[quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1426944255' post='2723761'] why on earth did you buy it? [/quote] It's a fair question. I bought it more than 20 years ago the same way people buy basses on this forum. There always isn't an opportunity to try an instrument before purchase. I recommend anyone thinking of buying one to try one.

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1426960551' post='2724118'] Wow. What a bizzare thread. What the OP doesn't seem to appreciate is that many people on BC already feel that Rickenbackers are overpriced, shoddily-made, mass-produced throwbacks with very little versatility. If he reads a little on here he'll find plenty of posts & threads expressing these views, none of which have been shut down by the RickenCops. And that plenty of people on here also feel that RIC's CEO behaves like a bullying, delusional, hostile megalomaniac, and this has negatively impacted on their opinion of the brand he represents. Bronner - most people on here really don't need to be talked out of buying a Rickenbacker. And there really isn't a secret BC fifth column, diligently beavering away to protect & promote that nice Mr Hall's business interests. It's all in your head, dear. Jon. [/quote] Best comment so far. Thanks Jon. I thought I was imagining the Ricken-Chickens parading their feathers and crowing to their God, the Junkenbacker.

[quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1426942798' post='2723736'] I reckon a subject title 'A Rickenbacker is a waste of 1500 quid' would have been all you needed to say and we could all have an hour of our lives back. [/quote] How am I forcing you to read a thread? I'm emancipating you; read what you want, like a grown up.

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1426941834' post='2723712'] It's a bass that divides opinion judging by some of the comments on here. I remember when I first started playing, all I wanted was a Ricky - mainly because Bruce Foxton used one in the early days of The Jam. When I eventually got to try a couple out I remember feeling quite disappointed - didn't get on with the shape or feel of them (especially the fingerboard). However, it doesn't mean that it's a poor instrument - the number of top name rock bass players who have used it successfully in recordings proves that it has its place in music. [/quote] I agree with everything you wrote. My experiences are my own and [u]not[/u] shared with [i]present[/i] owners of the bass to say "you made a bad decision," but rather to [u]prospective[/u] buyers that may want a sampling of opinions on the issue before plunking down 1,500 for one.

[quote name='kevvo66' timestamp='1426941696' post='2723709'] My vote goes with mickenbacker mmmm tasty lol [/quote] LOL ! Wait 3 minutes and someone will come along and say I was trying to force you to buy the MickenBacker.

[quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1426939663' post='2723687'] I don't like Ric basses and sure wouldn't want to have to deal with them as a company. Saying that, everybody who like Rickenbacker basses should stop and buy another brand of bass because you are wrong*. * satire warning [/quote] Buy what you like, I don't want to (nor do I have the power to stop you) buying what you like. But if you think this is the truss rod on a [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]£1500 bass, I encourage you to look deeper into the design flaw.[/font][/color] [url="http://www.strangeguitarworks.com/rickenbacker-broken-truss-rod-repair/"]http://www.strangegu...uss-rod-repair/[/url] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Because the aluminum block is too small, the truss rods sometimes bend and put downward pressure on the headstock. [/font][/color] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]In those instances, the truss rod can bend and/or cause unnatural pressure on the finger board and headstock, with unpleasant results.[/color][/font] Repaired by independent builder to avoid damage to headstock and fretboard from truss rod adjustment.

[quote name='Chaos Daveo' timestamp='1426940159' post='2723692'] The things folk have issue with is dont tell people what to do [/quote] I didn't tell people what to do, exactly the opposite. I used to believe that in England they read and write in English: [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]"[/font][/color][i][b][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]To the folks that like these basses at whatever price, fantastic, it's your choice. Enjoy your instrument and make good music."[/font][/b][/i] Where am I telling people they have to do what I say? To me it looks, [i]literally[/i], like I am saying the opposite.

You are mistaken: I didn't know this when I first posted this thread, but after looking into it, it's clear that the Rickenbacker company has a negative history with this website (and several other websites) all relating to allegations that Rickenbacker tries to strong-arm websites and opinions about their products. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rickenbacker threatened to sue this site. It seems they did that to other websites and to people who posted unfavorable reviews of their instruments. That tactic backfires with me. I write under my own name. I have a low opinion about the brand, and a lesser opinion about the company in seeing the number of complaints all over the Web. Rickenbacker is a Paper Tiger. They would be defretted under California law if it can be shown they engage in these tactics.

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1426937722' post='2723654'] Quite hypocritical to make sly digs at people with shoddy arguments when you've used a subjective Internet source with no real substance to back up your own opinions. [/quote] They're not my opinions. They are the opinions of others, and I made that clear with the link and quote: [i][b]"[color=#000000][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif].. There's no shortage of these types of complaints about the company on the Net; do your [u]own[/u] research, [u]form your own conclusions[/u]." <<<< [/font][/color][color=#ff0000][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]You saw where I wrote this? [/font][/color][/b][/i] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]£1500 for this type of [/font][/color][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]truss rod work? [/color][/font][url="http://sfguitarworks.com/case-studies/rickenbacker-neck-repair/"]http://sfguitarworks...er-neck-repair/[/url] Funny that the Asian copies get a bad rep when you see what the build quality is on the real ones. [i]"[color=#666666]This particular Rickenbacker’s faulty truss rod has created several problems: The first is that the aluminum block is not sufficiently long to support the threaded end without deflecting. This deflection causes the threaded ends to bend downward, making the truss rod ends dig into the headstock. This makes adjusting the rod difficult or impossible. [/color][/i] [color=#666666]After being repaired by a professional builder: [/color] [color=#666666][/color]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1426936977' post='2723639'] Other folk choose other things and well that's their prerogative. [/quote] People can choose whatever gear they want. That's a false argument. Nor do I care that people own these basses (if you read carefully I used to own one). The thread is for people who are considering buying one: Look at the title: [b] "Why [color=#ff0000][b]I [/b][/color]sold [color=#ff0000][b]my[/b][/color] Rickenbacker Bass"[/b] See the words "I" and "my"? Now if your experiences differ, I welcome them. But I certainly won't back down from sharing mine. It's a bass brand, but feels like some form of Scientology cult that tries to suppress 'seditious opinions' about a product.

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1426936629' post='2723629'] I agree. I've never liked the sound of Rickenbackers. They do sound like a cheap £50 bass from an Argos catalog. I always thought they sounded woolly when played finger style and harsh and clanky when played with a pick. A good bass player can get a workable sound from any bass but why spend £1,500 on a bass that sounds like it cost £50. Merely my opinion of course. Here's five grands worth of Rickenbackers, doing a variation of the woolly and clanky thing. [url="https://youtu.be/sI416nWdxxY"]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sI416nWdxxY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/url] [/quote] Thanks for your opinion and the link.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1426935393' post='2723594'] ..., but I don't really enjoy that coming from someone I don't know at all, never mind well enough to respect advice from. [/quote] What I really believe is happening is that the Rickenbacker brand is in trouble and they have a negative history with this site, and either someone with the company, the dealers that depend Rick sales in the UK, or perhaps just some overzealous fans of the brand are trying to shut down criticism of the product. If you really felt strongly about someone giving their opinion about a brand, you would feel equally strongly about people saying good things about the brand. Why isn't that offensive to you? Everyone knows it's common to share experiences about a product on a forum. Look at some independent bass makers on this site; they handle themselves professionally, and don't engage in dubious arguments to try and shut down criticism.

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1426934318' post='2723572'] to get incensed that people like them when you don't is a sign of other underlying issue you have, ... [/quote] I'm not incensed at all if people like Rickenbackers. I'm quoting myself, because there's a tendency for people like you to fabricate quotes here. This is my statement (you can read it above): "[i][b][color=#282828][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]To the folks that like these basses at whatever price, fantastic, it's your choice. Enjoy your instrument and make good music."[/font][/color][/b][/i] Actually what I'm commenting on are the Ad Hominem attacks simply because I have a negative opinion about the build quality, design, and price of this product. For example, (notice how I'm actually quoting you) where you imply I have some [u]psychological[/u] issue for not liking this brand: Your statement: [i][b]"... is a sign of other underlying issue you have." [/b][/i] Again, an Ad Hominem argument for not liking the brand. So people that don't like Ricks are unwell?

[quote name='Baxter' timestamp='1426933896' post='2723563'] I had a 4003 as my main player between '95 and '05. I bought it for the looks. My other bass was a '77 jazz that was frankly better sounding but just too heavy. I bought an Ibanez ASB140 semi in the States in summer '05 for $500 (£250 at the time) and that quickly relegated the Ric to the bench. It was better in every sense in tone and playability. I sold the Ric in '07 to finance a Kilt for my wedding. I don't miss it at all. [/quote] Similar experience Baxter. Thanks for Sharing. If anyone pounces on you for voicing your experiences, there's need to apologize for your experiences with a product. Peace and Rock on.

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4]To the folks that like these basses at whatever price, fantastic, it's your choice. Enjoy your instrument and make good music. However, in doing a little Google search, the fanaticism of defending this brand with Ad Hominem attacks seems to bring up a lot of similar experiences by others. A few quotes from other sites, and a link. [url="http://www.thezookeepers.com/ricknews.htm"]http://www.thezookee...om/ricknews.htm[/url][/size][/font] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][i][b]"[color=#000000]> After Jeff and I hung up, I called Rickenbacker again and asked the [/color][/b][/i][/size][/font][/indent] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][i][b]> receptionist if she could give me the name of the president of the > company. She said, "No, I cannot,"[/b][/i][/color][/size][/font][/indent] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][color=#000000][i][b]That's comical. His name is John C. Hall; he used to post on this[/b][/i][/color][/color][/size][/font][/indent] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][i][b]newsgroup fairly regularly a few years ago!"[/b][/i][/color][/color][/color][/size][/font][/indent] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][i][b]"I recently called Rickenbacker and told them about this new group and the message I just read. I told Rickenbacker that I will never buy an instrument from them because of their new reputation."[/b][/i][/color][/color][/color][/color][/size][/font][/indent] [indent=1][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][i][b]"I see you know the same lying, scheming, slandering, con- spiring and threatening [company employee] as I do. And I've dealt with him for close to two decades. You're certainly not the only one on these news- groups who shares similar experiences, makes similar observations, and shares the same opinions regarding [the employee] as you have expressed."[/b][/i][/color][/color][/color][/color][/size][/font][/indent] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#000000]... There's no shortage of these types of complaints about the company on the Net; do your own research, form your own conclusions. No need to rely on what I say. [/color][/color][/color][/color][/size][color=#000000]However, it raises suspicion when a few people defend a shoddy brand with more vigor than they would defend their own mothers, while using improper Ad Hominem attacks just because someone doesn't fancy a product. [/color][/font]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1426931493' post='2723513'] Can we just clarify Bronner, are you saying: (1) Don't buy a Ric, they are sh!t; (2) Don't buy a Ric unless you really really like it, because they are sh!t; (3) I once owned a Ric that was sh!t, and further anecdotal evidence leads me to believe that all Rics are sh!t; or (4) Something else we've all missed. [/quote] This is what I mean by the cult of Rickenbacker. If you want to quote me, there's a quote button. There's no need to fabricate imaginary quotes to prop-up a shoddy brand. [quote name='Bronner' timestamp='1426924024' post='2723434'] But for the average player, who maybe buying their first bass, I'd just say look around before you buy a Rick because [color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]₤1,500 will buy you a lot of bass elsewhere. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif](And to the guy who said Ricks sound great through Marshalls, so will a Japanese bass, and practically every other guitar or bass, with the added benefit that you can afford to own the Marshall amp and another brand bass for the same price as a Rick.)[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]The Japanese Greco Jazz bass is about [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]₤150 ( 1/10th the price of a Rick); and it's a beautiful bass. For the price of a Rick you can have a free trip to Japan, buy a Marshall, and get a bass that sounds better than a real Rick (which sound 'clanky' as someone else pointed out).[/font][/color] [url="http://www.tcgakki.com/search/?result&cp=4&kw=Greco"]http://www.tcgakki.c...t&cp=4&kw=Greco[/url] [/quote] Sorry for quoting myself above, but the other guy was incapable. He wanted to make a straw-man argument; speaks volumes about the product if you have to defend it like that. [i][b]Here you can see Rickenbacker basses falling apart and many people making the same design, build-quality, and price criticisms that I made. [/b][/i] http://www.talkbass.com/threads/rickenbacker-rant.1072625/

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1426930849' post='2723504'] Nobody forces me to eat rice pudding. Don't buy a Rickenbacker if you don't like them.[/quote] I'm swear I'm not trying to force you to eat rice pudding. I'm just sharing my opinion with people who are in the market for a bass that the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=arial, sans-serif]₤[/font][/size][/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3][font=arial, sans-serif]1500[/font][/size][/font][/color] price tag for a Rick will buy you a lot more bass with better tone and build quality elsewhere. If they want to buy one, that's their choice. 'You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.'

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1426929728' post='2723491'] I don't like rice pudding. It doesn't mean that no-one else should enjoy it [/quote] [color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]₤[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]1500 for rice pudding? To use your analogy, it's like a cult of personality that surrounding these poorly made basses that hypes up [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]₤[/font][/color][color=#282828][font=arial, sans-serif]1500 tins of rice pudding. My point, that same money will get you more pudding elsewhere at 1/10th of the price for the same quality.[/font][/color]