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[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1372869935' post='2130987'] [/quote]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1372866920' post='2130938'] Nige a huge part of it is all about pattern recognition especially reading the dots on the lines (IMHO) check out this little app - very interactive and useful for reading/recognising/learning notation and syncopation [url="https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/rhythm-sight-reading-trainer/id396302174"]https://itunes.apple...ner/id396302174[/url] notreble have a good apps section - this one looks great for the more advanced harmony stuff [url="http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2013/03/04/mapping-tonal-harmony-pro-a-look-at-the-harmony-app-for-ios-and-android/"]http://www.notreble....os-and-android/[/url] [media]http://youtu.be/LLJeHenKdlw[/media] [/quote] Thank you! I'll have a good look at these. I should have been clearer about what I meant by the pattern recognition, I'm pretty good at it, but there are loads of patterns I've clearly missed. One that Jake pointed out made me feel like right f***ing dumbbell. It saves so much time having someone point out the patterns instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. That makes space for one to develop patterns that fit with one's aesthetic. That will hopefully come much further down the line. Thanks again mate.

[quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1372866403' post='2130924'] Nige, HUGE respect!...that's all. [/quote] Ooh, not sure I deserve it mate, but thank you

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1372866528' post='2130928'] I'm sticking with 'ignorance is bliss'. I'm happy for you but don't get all preachy [/quote]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1372864622' post='2130887'] Love it Nige! I can feel the glow of your buzz from here mate. I need to start taking lessons at some point myself. I'm still stumbling through the darkness, finding my way as a go - and having fun with that, sure. But I know there'll soon come a time when I need someone else to help untangle what I've learned and make better sense of it all. Your post makes me think I should do this sooner than later. PS: "pissing twattery" - I'm having that one for myself [/quote]

[quote name='largo' timestamp='1372864180' post='2130876'] Who is this Jake fellow you keep referring to? [/quote] Here you go mate [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/6270-jakesbass-jakesbass-and-thrice-jakesbass/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/6270-jakesbass-jakesbass-and-thrice-jakesbass/[/url] Jake's an amazing tutor, and a brilliant musician. It's very important you choose a tutor to suit you, as has been said above. I'm also going to give a big shout out for Steve Woodcock too (Stickman on BC). Also an amazing player on bass and Chapman Stick, and an ace tutor. I chose Jake over Steve because of certain peculiarities I have that Jake is able to rip apart. This is no reflection on Steve at all, it's just specific to my particular learning needs and my personality that I chose Jake. Steve is brilliant at explaining theory and demonstrating practical application, and have no hesitation in recommending you check him out if you want a tutor for any level of experience. He's in West London. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180288-bass-tuition-available-in-west-london/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180288-bass-tuition-available-in-west-london/[/url]

I've never seen plating live before, only on a computer, so I'll definitely be along!

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1372862485' post='2130854'] Somehow I don't think we need to bother, I think we all know the answer! Music theory is fantastic for stretching your ears and finding new things to play in any given situation, but the fact remains that playing the same old bluesy patterns, roots, octaves and fifths sounds great for most songs if played with some feeling and panache. [b]Some bass players seem to think learning theory will make them lose their identity and sound like a clone[/b], but you don't have to apply all your music theory all the time. There's a lot to be said for keeping it simple, but it's all a bit crap if you've no choice but to keep it simple cos you know nowt. [/quote] Exactly. I'm actually learning THROUGH jazz, even though I don't like almost all jazz I've heard. It's great fun to play walking bass over complex changes, which is what I've started learning. I thought I could improvise, but it was only over changes with little or no modulation, and now I see that even that was pretty pathetic compared to the possibilities I can see now. It's opened my ears too, it's like finding a goldmine.

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1372862131' post='2130847'] so lets get this right , is there such a thing as core tone ? and do you have to lock with the kick drum ? I really wouldnt be too hard on yourself ( and I'm sure your not ) but if you had learnt more theory and reading before you mighnt have got it. I think that in learning new stuff we have all have times in our lives when we get it and other times when presente with the same information its more of a meh [b]Serious question why do you need a teacher for theory , I would have thought its the one area of music where you can teach yourself[/b] [/quote] I thought that too, but certainly it's not true for me. First you have to be shown WHY you need to learn it. Just one little thing Jake has shown me has unlocked a big chunk of fingerboard for me. I have to memorise it in all 24 keys, but that's just repetition. It's like the floodlights have been turned on. There is simply just too much information to make sense of unless you're a genius and able teach yourself to a high level of knowledge, you would need enormous motivation and time and a clear sense of application.

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1372861734' post='2130841'] Congratulations on taking the difficult step of accepting where you are and having the courage to go outside your confort zone and improve. As you say, this is often the hardest part and until any individual accepts where they are and has an open mind, they can not move forward. As for the internet being full of bollocks... what took you so long [/quote] Thank you mate

[quote name='acidbass' timestamp='1372861174' post='2130832'] Always nice to have lessons but never forget - you are the best bass player in the world at sounding like you! Everyone has their own voice and approaches and you shouldn't lose what you have already learned just to accommodate musical theory. In my experience it can make a player a bit more rigid. [/quote] That what I used to think, but I feel completely the opposite now, there is nothing more rigid than ignorance. Obviously if you have limited and uninteresting musical imagination, that needs to be improved too, but if you do have those imaginative qualities, how can learning how to get them out through your instrument going to make you rigid? That's the attitude that's been holding people like me back all these years.

Why not go for a later model? The neck on my 83 is wonderfully shallow and slim.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1372860350' post='2130816'] I always found it was just like maths, just a beautiful and creative maths. [/quote] Yeah exactly!

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1372859511' post='2130797'] If you want to get your head around musical theory without it seeming incredibly dull I recommend taking up keyboard as a side hobby mate. The bass is a great instrument but it isn't a visual one. When you have those keys in front of you something just clicks IMO [/quote] Thaks, I do mate, and I play guitar, bugger about with drums, and now beatboxing Jake has made music theory fascinating to me, I always thought it would be, like maths, you just need the right teacher.

I'm a decent player, I can write, play other instruments to a good standard, and I've got good ears. I don't know much theory and I don't read music well, but I thought my ears and experience compensated for those lackings. I play with some great musicians in amateur and professional bands. I've been playing for 30+ years. I really thought I knew some sh*t about music and playing bass. But having started taking lessons from Jake, I have had my brain fragmented, and we are in the process of putting it back together to create a new improved mass of grey sh*t in my bonce. I've realised that my lack of confidence was compensated for with a certain vanity, and a bunch of excuses. The fact is, I'm feeling like a musical baby now, starting with the very basics of music theory and building towards a proper understanding of my fretboard and harmony. I've imparted a fair bit of 'wisdom' on this forum about playing bass over the last few years, but looking back, most of it is utter bullshit, rubbish, imparted from a position of blind ignorance and sheer laziness, and a lack of ability to perceive the benefits of learning music theory and notation. I think I'm beginning to understand now. I feel like I have wasted decades f***ing and fiddling around, trying to unlock the fretboard through pattern recognition and reading crap out of various books without understanding why. I could have spent a little money on a tutor, and some focused time and energy, and saved years of aimless pissing twattery. I'd be a helluva lot better now if I'd have done that, and I'd have talked a lot less f***ing bollocks on here.

The only way to translate your imagination into music through your instrument in a split second is to have great command and knowledge of your fretboard. You need to find the notes in your head on the board instantly and know what they are going to sound like. I'd recommend lessons with a very good tutor and learn theory. Thing is though, why do you WANT to improvise? And we have no idea of your current skill level.

[quote name='Samashton12' timestamp='1372853109' post='2130675'] Hey Guys, Looking for help from a few of you BC veterans Any useful resources for helping with Improvisation on the bass? I can improvise in basic terms i just feel i'm stuck in the same "box". I'm self taught and have only ever learnt my basic pentatonic shapes which i adapted from guitar? Any help would be appreciated Thanks, Sam [/quote] Can you sing improvised stuff you want to hear? Either in your head or out loud.

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1372845538' post='2130520'] I considered it, but wasn't terribly enthused by the album tbh - any idea who's in the band? [/quote] Update from Hogarth on their FB page [url="https://www.facebook.com/HogarthBarbieri?ref=ts&fref=ts"]https://www.facebook.com/HogarthBarbieri?ref=ts&fref=ts[/url] Just got out of the hammock to write a hello to the faithful. But that's enough about Marianne.. How are we all? I hope you're seeing SOMETHING of the summer weather.. although if you're in central Europe you're probably reading this from the second floor.. or a boat. "It's raining! Get to the point, h", I hear you saying. And so I shall. In August I shall abandon the hammock to begin rehearsals ...for the forthcoming Hogarth/Barbieri tour. This show will be split into 2 - the first part will be dedicated to playing songs and music from the "Not The Weapon But The Hand" album (which, if you haven't heard it, I would thoroughly recommend) and the second part will be a chance to hear and see songs from our respective catalogues performed live. These will include h-Band favourites along with well-chosen Marillion, Porcupine Tree, Japan and Richard Barbieri songs/tunes. If you never got to see the h Band and regretted it, then you'll be pleased to hear that we have a 7 piece band with us which includes, as well as Richard and myself, the wonderful and brilliant Dave Gregory (previously of XTC and currently, Tin Spirits) on guitar, and the shockingly groovy and shamanic Andy Gangadeen on drums. (I'm excited just writing it down..) In addition to this 4 piece of h Band stalwarts are a further 3 rare talents: Sheema Mukherjee on bass and sitar. Sheema has been playing sitar since childhood and in addition to performing classical Indian pieces and her own compositions, she is a core member of Transglobal Underground. She can also effortlessly "strap on a precision and rock!". Ken and Carl Papenfus on guitar, keyboards, percussion and backing vocals. Ken and Carl are core members of Northern Irish band Relish - both great players and great singers, I chose them having heard Relish perform at Marillion's UK convention recently. I've been a fan of Relish for some years since accidentally catching them playing a club in Dublin and being knocked out by their musicianship and vibe. So that's the band. Here's the dates: August 29 Germany Berlin FritzClub 31 Poland Inowroclaw Festival September 1 Poland Krakow Studio Club 3 Germany Munich Backstage 4 Germany Bonn Bruckenforum 5 Belgium Verviers Spirit of 66 7 France Paris Le Trabendo 8 Holland Uden De Pul 9 Holland Amsterdam Paradiso 11 UK Manchester Ritz 12 UK London Scala I look forward to sharing this with you. Soon.. h xx

Thanks people

[quote name='Fionn' timestamp='1372807068' post='2130329'] Nice one man! Yeahhhh, let it out. Singing is good for the soul [/quote] Innit!! I sing at home with the headphone on, cooking washing up, hoovering .. I look forward to the f***ing housework these days

Wow. I feel so good right now Kit brought a new song to rehearsal tonight, and it's gorgeous, magical! We all learned it and She's got me doing some gentle beat-boxing, and singing three part harmony with Sam the guitarist. I can sing pretty well, but using a mic while playing bass is very new to me, it's HARD. But I did it, and the beat-boxing is hilarious fun, especially because I'm a drummer at heart I've never felt so motivated to start REALLY practising singing and playing bass together I've always wanted to sing on stage with a band and I've written and recorded songs, but my voice sounds like a f***ing piglet trapped in a child's body, so I've long recognised I'll never realise any pretension to singing lead, but singing harmony feels like a glorious catharsis for me. I've not felt so musically blissed out for so many years! It's the singing that's done it. Add to the above that I started bass lessons with Jake Newman last week which has really propelled me into a whole new level of seriousness with learning theory and notation. And I've started running! Not done proper exercise for 15 years, but I'm having a quick run round the common everyday since last Saturday, totally knackering, I'm a heaving wreck afterwards, but f*** man, I feel so good for it! All that noradrenaline pumping up your spirit. Despite some really crap things going on in my life right now, tonight, I feel f***ing fantastic!

It's brilliant! Fascinating and superbly done. Just watch it [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4niz8TfY794[/media]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372779741' post='2129877'] It's a great shame you didn't suck-seed. I thangyow. [/quote] Oooff, mate, I need a lie down after reading that

My first band was called 'Our Parrot'. Our only gig was a jam in a Welsh village. No-one came.

Can we lock this and start again on Cloudy's behalf? It's turned into a load of old sh*t this thread.