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[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1373109184' post='2133787'] All joking aside, I'm just genuinely impressed with Nige's drive & enthusiasm after 34 years of playing. I really wish I still got as fired up about music as he does. [/quote] You know what, Rhys, your post has just massively opened my mind I take my enthusiasm completely for granted, not a day goes by without me actively listening to at least an hour of very varied music. I'm constantly thinking about music and playing and improving my own music and abilities, although it's not been at all focused, it certainly is now with Jake's help. Thing is, although I know I sometimes come over as a bit of a know all on here, I still feel like a real musical baby, a beginner, especially when I compare myself to some of the people I play with and meet. I think feeling like a baby keeps my enthusiasm going. I adore music. The day I feel jaded by music is the day I become old and tired and near death.

[quote name='steantval' timestamp='1372972809' post='2132439'] I was joking. Most people could probably learn to play bass like that guy in one evening. [/quote] You could teach prople to use a pencil in one evening. Doesn't mean they'll be writing anything worth reading in one evening does it.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1372951579' post='2132071'] Not really..if you don't get it..you don't get it.. I think this thread is a reaction to another one anyway which probably hit a sore spot...so I take it as a bit of a wind-up, tbh. If you are happy with a POD ..then its your gig. [/quote] I couldn't understand what you wrote, your last few posts are very difficult to make sense of grammatically, I couldn't understand what you were trying to say. That's why I asked. OK? It's not a wind up, I am very interested, and it's an interesting subject. If you want to put across your opinions, do it legibly. Don't react like an impatient arsey f***er when I ask a simple question. I've been polite haven't I? Why do I deserve this petulant sh*t from you?

[quote name='SpaceChick' timestamp='1372947838' post='2132016'] This! I trust my kit, its decent stuff. Would much rather plug my trusty GT10b into something that didnt give me a work out every time I'd need to move it and require a van to transport it though if I'm honest [/quote] I'd get a powered monitor like a Mackie SRM in that case, Debs. I was toying with getting one, or a Barefaced Midget and a power amp.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1372950794' post='2132064'] No, but it sounds like it... If you are talking about not mic'ing the kit,...??? apples and oranges..!! You want the feel of the drums ...or to FEEL the drums.? [/quote] I'm not with you old egg, would you explain?

[quote name='iceonaboy' timestamp='1372950115' post='2132055'] [i]We play small to mid sized venues with no monitors, or even room for monitors, so a cab is the minimum I need for getting my sound[/i] [/quote] There are mid size venues with no monitors?! How in god's name does your singer manage?

[quote name='tayste_2000' timestamp='1372949345' post='2132041'] I would suggest a happy medium of a POD and then something like a Berg IP cab or powered cab. You will need to be trying your patches out with something like this as you'll find the difference between setting them at home and then using them live to be massive and you'll likely have volume jumps all over the place. [/quote] I use studio headphones and my little studio monitors to create patches, almost lab conditions. Had no problems geting levels right. I always eq & level test and tweak with the bands' music playing. Had no problems with that so far.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1372949341' post='2132040'] I just thought I'd add: what does your drummer use..? An electronic kit..? Do you play to a 'beat box'..? ...or a laptop..? I play acoustic drums, and find the nuances for different styles in our repertoire by judicious sticking (or brushes, or whatever...). I don't need to change a kit for another, or press a button to change the sound of my snare, or toms, or cymbals. I play with what I have ('skills' included...) Why the 'need' for 'different' sounds throughout the evening..? One drumkit does all we need; one bass rig does the same. How does it go, that expression..? Oh yes... "Why do things simply if you can do them complicated..?" Not for me, I afraid. Just sayin' [/quote] Thought that question would come up All the drummers I play with use an acoustic kit, sometimes augmented with a SPDS. leccy kits sound good but they are much more expensive if you want the feel of an acoustic kit and a flexible enough brain. The acoustic kits are nearly always miced. The fact is, there is not a comparable situation with drums like their is with bass and guitars. Does your keys player rock up to gigs with a baby grand?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1372948724' post='2132036'] No, Nigel, that's exactly the point. I'm not talking about the 'stage' time, but the time spent beforehand setting up the pedal board presets and all. Our Tom has zero presets, in rehearsal as on stage. He plugs in, turns up the 'pre' to 12 o'clock, and 'Master' to as required for volume. End of. He doesn't (and doesn't want or need to...) programme anything. He did that with the GT-6b, and decided (rightly, in my view, too...) that it wasn't adding anything that justified the messing around. Plug the bass in and play. The sound will be fine (with good gear, of course...) The rest is in his fingers... [/quote] But loads of people are buying and selling amps and cabs to find their tone, what a massive gaff that is, and damn expensive, troublesome and time consuming. I love programming patches anyway, I love getting great sounds that inspire me and suit the music. What about people who need different sounds for different songs, and different bands?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1372947042' post='2131991'] This is much the same 'argument' as that of the singer, turning up with only his mic. If the rest of the gear is provided, and up to the situation, then that's fine, but if not, he/she's in trouble with only that equipment. The PA becomes the equivalent of the bass rig, in the mode that you suggest. As the previus posters, I would agree that it's at least 'do-able', if not entirely recommended, for all the reasons you've stated, if the PA (FOH and stage...) is adequate. In the kind of situations we normally play in, this is never the case, or, at least, should not be relied upon. [b]A second point, and not negligeable for some, is the 'phaffing about' that seems inherent with Pods and such. A 'real life' case would be our band.[/b] Abel has a mega Mesa stack and a couple of sophisticated boards/racks (Triaxis, G-Force, VG-88 and more...), gets great sounds, and often spends more than 10 minutes of rehearsal time phrigging about to get such-and-such a reverb, or 'crunch' (whatever that is..!) or slap-back tempo just right. Tom has a GT-6b, which he used for a while, with patches for Muse, others for the Floyd... After a while he decided to ditch the pedalboard and just plug straight into the Hiwatt and that's it. We seldom (read: never...) have to wait around for Tom to be ready. His 'sound' is magnificent, for all of our repertoire (Muse, Floyd and all...). He can't be @rsed to mess about with any sh*t. He just wants to play bass. Different folks have different approaches. My excuse for keeping my rigs..? Simple..! I'm old..! [/quote] No faff for me, I plug in an XLR to the desk, plug my bass in and we're off. Sometimes we only get time for a line check and it's still totally cool. I know the POD well enough to tweak patches on the fly in less than ten seconds. Setting up an amp and cab would take much more time, no?

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1372946332' post='2131979'] Amp modelling is ok but as flawed as any other thinking. It is an AWFL lot of work to refine something to suit...otherwise you are taking a complicated feed and hoping for the best one size fits all, and especially if you use a few effects. It really depends on your monitoring though, at the end of the day. If you get decent signals back and to the rest of the band, then it can work. if you don't, or have less than 4 mixes.. you are asking for trouble. [b]Plus you need more time to get the mon mix right..so for these multl bills with a rushed turnround, I wouldn't touch it.[/b] Also, it depends how much playing the band actually does... if you push the boat out a few times..you will need the other guys to be able to get on board... [/quote] Not IME, not at all.

[quote name='Samashton12' timestamp='1372945907' post='2131963'] I've become more open minded with this question lately, with my guitarist being a sound engineer and him telling me how much DI makes his job easier.. Id say it gives me confidence in a way, I'd save for an amp for a while to be proud of it and have it behind me for everyone to hear and look at (and for gearheads to moan about how much i don't deserve such an amp ) but you're correct.. What's the point of buying an SVT and lugging it round everywhere as opposed to a DI box which sounds like an SVT.. Slowly leaning toward to the DI option, but it just doesn't seem as cool I dont know [/quote] I know what you mean about the 'cool' aspect. I loved Van Halen's set of walls of fake speaker cabs. But the fact is, big amps onstage is only old school cool nowadays. I really don't think the audience give a sh*t about seeing stacks on stage unless it's a deliberate part of a set.

[quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1372945495' post='2131956'] The rig-less approach is probably fine if you are playing in a larger venue through a PA with decent stage monitors and you trust the sound engineer, or you are in a pro band playing with high quality in ear monitors or whatnot, but if you are playing down the old Cock and Pullet then you probably won't have such luxuries at your disposal... I use some amp modelling and quite a lot of effects through my markbass/barefaced big one setup - its an exceptionally clean amp/cab combo so most of my 'tone' comes from the bass/effects etc, but ultimately I like to be able to control my onstage level and tweak the tone accordingly. Its also a ridiculously lightweight rig so moving it is a doddle tbh. Also I don't generally lend my gear out. Its not a problem for what I do, although in principle I agree with you. [/quote] That's cool man, but I must add that most of the gigs I play are in small pub/bar type venues with small PAs and a couple of wedges as a minimum. It's very easy to find out what sort of PA a venue has before you get to the gig. I've never owned a bass rig, only ever the POD, and before that I have a few different active DIs. If there's a house bass amp I might use it for onstage reference and a bit of vibration, but that's just for fun and only with one particular band that has big pumping bass lines.

Let's get this bit out the way first, ok? Digital modeling - Boss GT10B, POD XT/X3, and active DI's like SansAmp, Hartke VXL, etc, if used properly, can and do sound indistinguishable from an amp and cab rig in your FoH sound. You need to take this for granted if you don't believe me. I'll go one further and say the same is true for studio recordings but that's another story. The only advantage of using and amp and cab that I can work out from what people say on here is that it can make you trousers flap on stage, which to me is not a sensible reason at all. Most monitors are capable of pumping out some good bass for your reference. Quality digi modeling/effects units and active DIs offer (over amp and cab rigs) huge versatility and portability, consistent sound quality with most stage and room characteristics, reliability, simplicity of deployment, massive cost savings, less prone to damage, don't need to keep changing them in your quest for TONE, geezers in other bands never ask to borrow them for their set, you can't stand a pint on them .. Need I go on? It's beyond me why anyone would have the pain and worry of cab placement problems in auditoriums, needing gramma pads, transport issues, bad backs, lending them to other bands, very little versatility, easily damaged, buying and selling to find YOUR TONE, upsizing, downsizing, two rigs for different size gigs, getting them up and down narrow stairs ... So why do you REALLY insist on having amps and cabs? Fear of digital sound being unpredictable or sounding crap? Need a big old rig behind you to feel safe? Ignorance of going direct? Need a massive bass sound on stage? Can't be bothered to f*** about learning how to programme patches? Nostalgia? Inertia? ... I'm genuinely interested to know.

Go direct via a POD or whatever. Amps are a waste of time

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1372937910' post='2131815'] With regard to the double bass; it's easy for somebody else to tell you you should pursue it, they're not the one that'll have to spend loads of money on more gear (and have you seen the price of the strings?!!). OK, so you had a brief go & had your ego massaged a bit, but is it REALLY something you've ever thought about doing before? Do you have plans to play the sort of music where a DB would be essential, or are you just going to be spending your time learning to play it with no real point or goal to it when you'd be better off concentrating on what you do with your electric gear? The chances are it'll end up as just another bit of kit not getting used that you might take a beating on when you inevitably sell it on. (BTW, I'm currently spending money on gear with no real idea why I'm doing so - deep down I know it'll all be up for sale again within six months). [/quote] I was going to say something very similar but thought better of it, maybe I thought it was too personal. Anyway, I think you're bang on. If you went to a local fair and you had a go on someone's unicycle and the guy said, wow, you're really good aren't you, a f***ing natural! Would you therefore decide that must be your calling in life? If it was you'd probably have had a unicycle aready. I think one must separate inner truth from the ego.

All sounds to me like this has nothing to do with equipment. Kind of sounds like you've lost your voice. Do you know what you want to say through bass/music?

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1372934122' post='2131755'] Absobloodylutely!! Awesome post there Nige but this last bit resonates with me. I studied at the M.I. in Wapping when I was in my early 20's, 1995. I was too young (within myself at that time) to fully absorb what was being taught to me, to look around and see the opportunities available. I knew that this is what I wanted to do but to be honest I only gave it a half-arsed go (passed the course, just). I left there with alot of holes in my knowledge and no real idea of how to utilise what little I had learned. I did alot of dicking about to be fair with an opportunity that not many get. Got all the time in the world right? Fast forward to today and I have such a hunger to be the greatest musician I can be. I have all of Carol Kaye's educational books and C.D's, a tasty bundle of lessons and backing tracks downloaded from Scott Devine's website (scottsbasslessons.com) and..... I have absolutely no time to get stuck into them as I work my day job, I'm married and we have two lovely little lads. Life is good, amazing, don't get me wrong but musically I feel I've diddled myself to be honest. I will get into my educational material again one day but I can't see it happening for a couple of years at least. All the time in the world? Forget it! If you've found what you love, don't sit around wasting your time while you have time. You never know how busy life may get for you, how full your hands may be one day, and those days just fly by. Yes there's a heavy dollop of 'If I knew then what I know now' to my sentiments but to be honest, I DID know then too! I was just an ignorant smart arse though looking back. So yes, Do what you love and don't fu**ing waste your time. It may not be yours to waste for very long. [/quote] [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1372934759' post='2131765'] Pretty much the same story for me, I've still got a folder full of stuff Simon, Silas and Tony handed out at M.I. 20 years ago, I need to dig it out and go through it again but there's never enough time. [/quote] Youth is wasted on the young

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1372893968' post='2131474'] Just as well you're not into watermelon..? [/quote] Quite! I had another rehearsal tonight and She's got me singing lyrics now, in three part harmony, playing bass and tap dancing my floor POD. Massive respect to Geddy, Chris Squire, Sting, et al. My god it's f***ing difficult! But I'm loving every 71 milliseconds of it of it

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1372893780' post='2131470'] Thanks for the kind words Nige, although I honestly think that it's down to the enthusiasm of the student. [b]I am merely a facilitator with a lucky knack for being able to word things clearly.[/b] I like to try to find what the student is turned on by, that however is not always possible, so I would always recommend that people try a few tutors. [/quote] That's exactly what you are, Jake. But you also have certain rare skill with people - you have developed an attitude that means you NEVER teach to an agenda. I think you truly believe the unique musician within each of your students should be brought out uncorrupted, and the rare bit is that you seem to be able to recognise that unique musician after a very short time. You are a true facilitator, and I think that's very rare. EDIT: I should add that I recognised you would be the right teacher for me having read some of your posts on here not long after I joined Basschat, I seem to remember saying that in a thread. I booked a lesson with you and you kind of totally took me apart with one observation. I needed to analyse that observation and its implications. I realised that I was much smaller than I thought I was, that my personality on the instrument, and my music in general, was simply not enough, I felt like a f***ing musical shrimp. The main realisation was that I was illiterate, that I was a pale shadow of what I aspire to. You showed me the possibilities, but had not the bollocks to rise to the immense challenge at that time. I realised that I had no legitimate excuses. It's taken me three years since then to realise that sh*t. You have actually facilitated more than the musician, certainly in me anyway. When the student is ready the teacher will arrive. You know, if hadn't joined Basschat I'd have been blissfully ignorant even now, enjoying my restricted, rancid efforts. Learning as much as you can about what you love does not suck. Don't f***ing waste it.

[quote name='Stag' timestamp='1372890239' post='2131399'] What.... As in... "Best ever?" Really? [/quote] It's about the music, not the technique

Speaking of cherries, I was on the tube yesterday, and I was behind a geezer who had an unfeasible number of cherry-sized, and smaller, lumps hanging off his neck, attached by skin, the sort of skin that a healthy man (not a woman! Women have a subcutaneous fat layer preventing such a visual example) can pinch on his biceps. When I got home there was an Abel & Cole delivery, a fruit box (I make fresh smoothies every morning, with cashews and unsweetened oat milk), it contained some lush m*thaf*ckin cherries. And as you know, I f***ing LOVE cherries. I took them out the box, what a treasure to be greeted with after a sh*t day at the orifice. I selected a beautiful one, appreciated it's shine and firmness, the French-curved stalk perfectly designed for the human hand (male or female or whatever) to delicately grasp. I lowered it into my gape, and took an expectant bite, the firmness yielding to soft, delicious, flesh surrounding the hard stone nature put in the centre, the price we must pay for more cherries. The gushing nectar burst into my mouth as I bit - it was then I remembered the geezer on the tube. The remaining cherries are still in the refrigerator.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1372881561' post='2131183'] You'll be ruining Kits song with Jaco esque bass lines before you know it! [/quote] Ahahaha! I think that's why people are scared to learn, they think they will become obsessed with jazz Have no fear, all I want to do is harness my musical intelligence in the most efficient, effective, and inspirational way, given my limited time and ability

The new Boards of Canada album everyone's talking about. Got it off iTunes for £8.99 this morning. Totally f***ing [b][size=6]MEH[/size][/b].

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1372871188' post='2131011'] Nige, you [i]promised [/i]you wouldn't post that pic you took of me at your place. [/quote] You never gave me that hush job.