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[quote name='algmusic' post='1320185' date='Jul 29 2011, 10:54 AM']It's being able to use your technique effectively.. I would say I have much more technical knowledge of music on drums. When I was younger, I always wanted to play the last 'trick' I learnt in my drum lesson or other teaching aid, but as I grew up musically, I used those tools to play what feels right for the music. So when I started playing bass much more seriously/professionally, I actually used what my limited knowledge to play the simple things well to play for the song, now I know much more I still take that view of just playing what feels right for the song, but at home, I practice techniques and I also practice just 'playing what comes out'. I think alot of people think that the top players, just play theory, but they actually and try things out and push the boundaries artistically to see what comes out, so when they play live they can ' just play what feels right' rather than just a theory.[/quote] I think you're right. And boundaries have to be pushed. However, I think the best musical development is often developing one's own musical philosophy, and that comes from immersing oneself in listening, reading, playing, recording, discussing etc. I think when you start to find what it is about music you like, dislike, love, find easy and difficult, you start to strip away what is unnecessary for your own expression, and develop what is. Sometimes forums like this can put a lot of pressure on people to feel they need to learn this, that, and the other - and often it takes a lot of will to turn it around and truly believe you can be expressive and fulfilled without certain elements of what might be called an accomplished musician, Being able to play all styles, sight-read, knowing a variety of techniques and such. I think the process is a sort of self-sculpture, chipping away at what is NOT you, and revealing what IS you. Then you can learn what you really want and need because you have a purpose and it will be inspiring.

[quote name='4000' post='1320038' date='Jul 29 2011, 08:20 AM']The only thing that ever prompted me to have LEDs as fretmarkers (and I've had 3 basses with them) is so I can see where I am on a darkened stage! Nothing to do with attention seeking. It actually really helps you know....[/quote] Front or side?

There's always that little bastard on your shoulder that screams "you boring twat" in your head when you've you've played something unmusical and purely technical. This bugger is always there and it's wise to listen.

[quote name='Skol303' post='1319420' date='Jul 28 2011, 03:36 PM'][b]Surely this is a bit like asking: where does vocabulary and grammar end and conversation (or perhaps poetry) begin?[/b] If you're fluent in speaking French, for instance, then you'll find it easier to converse with French people - or even woo them with your poetic verse! Whereas if your French speaking is poor, then your poetry is likely to be poor also... or perhaps just simplistic. So in summary: technique is like vocabulary, it's what gives musicians the range and freedom to express themselves more fluenty through their instruments. ... or failing that, I suppose you could just stomp on the metaphorical fuzz box and shout ("VOO-LAY-VOO-PARR-LAY-ONG-LEZ?").[/quote] Yes, perhaps, but we aren't on ChatChat, we're on BassChat

[quote name='steve-bbb' post='1319206' date='Jul 28 2011, 12:21 PM']dirtyloops is good but just a couple of odd occasions where it seems like theyre throwing in just that little bit too much syncopation and trying to be too clever - [b]and nobody likes a smarty pants do they[/b] but on the whole very slick and good technical playing all round - jolly well done 8/10 but anybody who can play bass like that with a straight face in their underpants takes the prize im afraid cardiacs win - no contest! [/quote] Yes they do. There are many Jaco fans among us.

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='1319155' date='Jul 28 2011, 11:34 AM']Sorry to go off topic folks, but have you checked your technique holding the drumsticks? On a kit with rubber pads your technique has to be really good or you'll end up with all sorts of pain, it's not quite so bad on mesh heads but still important. It might be worth getting a few drum lessons and focussing on the hands before giving up and selling the kit. Drumstick material can make a big difference to the amount of shock that gets transferred into your hands, definitely stay away from carbon sticks or extra tough sticks![/quote] Really appreciate that, Rich, thanks! I have had my drummers check my technique and they seem to think it's ok. The problem is, I play kit for fun, and a big part of that fun is the physical aspect of hitting them fairly hard I have no ambition to be anything but a home player, and I'll just get frustrated having the kit around if I can't really have a good crack on them. And the money will be useful too. Thanks again. N

[quote name='cytania' post='1318701' date='Jul 27 2011, 09:11 PM']"I've met a number of acoustic builders who have said to me that wood doesn't matter in acoustics either" The most obvious difference is playing any mahogany acoustic versus a normal pine top, the mahogany is instant delta blues and no maker can seem to mess it up. There are maker differences though Taylors have a trebley voice, not sure what part of their construction does this but even my cheap one has it. Oh and if you have £5K spare try a McPherson, their curvy bracing system gives their guitars something extra. I think this maker's tone thing holds more water than woods. Ibanez always has a clean, clinical (in a good way) sound to my ear no matter what style bass they do. Then there's the mystery of the Rickenbacker clank; huge bridge? metal clad pickup? or dual truss rod? but it's there waiting for a pick to unleash it. I think the moral of today's thread is yes wood is important but simply looking for the tag 'alder body' or 'maple' in the spec is not going to guarrantee a particular tone in a bass. I now resolve to ignore the body wood and try everything out in a store.[/quote] Bracing type, glue, the ratio of stability to vibrational qualities, the way the wood is sawn, etc, is much more important than the type of wood as far as I'm aware.

[quote name='62P-Bass' post='1317839' date='Jul 27 2011, 12:09 AM']This is the interesting bit to me - how can we actively improve or increase the 'music' quotient in our own performance? I saw a masterclass with Chuck Rainey once, and he talked about what I understood to be a 'Zen' idea - the ego vs the spirit. I know naff all about Zen/Buddhism/religion in general, but I liked what I took from this idea in relation to performance and have found it useful. The idea being that your ego would be telling you "play this thing you learnt / force this lick in / you should be doing more / play better / show 'em who's boss! etc.", or what would end up sounding like what has been referred to in this thread as 'Technique'. The best results are gained when you detach from this and let your subconscious or 'spirit' take over - listen to the music as a whole and react instinctively to the bigger picture, without your ego telling you anything. I think this is often what a listener (and performer) responds to best and what we might call 'music' as oppose to 'technique'. Sounds like this is what happened in Sliddx's rehearsal the other night. I guess different people will tap into this 'spirit/music' in different ways so will have varying responses to different music - 'all sounds like widdling to me'! In simple music or even music that you have a huge affinity for and not much technique, this egoless state might be easy to reach, or it least it is for the musicians we like to listen to. More challenging music will require greater/broader technique in order to reach the point where your instinct can take over and the ego is eradicated, or at least reduced. Basically in the masterclass someone asked Chuck what his favourite recordings of him were, or which were the basslines he played that he was most proud of. He said the ones where it sounded like his spirit was in control and not his ego, and they way he could tell would be often he would hear something in the recording that sounded totally new to him and like he couldn't have come up with it or couldn't play it like that again - that was his spirit coming through. That was all he said and I made up all the rest!! Anyway - this has always been something I've been meaning to look into more and haven't got round to it. I tried to read Zen in the Art of Archery, but never made it all the way through and it's a very short book. Cheers, Andrew[/quote] Yes! This is it. When you listen back and it sounds like you but you don't remember playing it, and you have to learn how to play what you played. Then that process seems to make it technique all over again But when you do it, it feels like you are strolling over sweet pasture, aimless and beautiful, you become in touch with nature, your surroundings.

Ain't wrecked braa, bin workin! If you want an example of when technique ends and music begins, this is a superb one! Their vibe is incredible! The Just Dance vid is seriously bollock expanding. I just wanted to get straight on my drum kit and play along! Such a f***ing shame I'm selling it tomorrow. Found out I am developing arthritis and the impact on my fingers of playing kit is making playing guitar and bass painful. Anyways, I adore these guys, they shine like diamonds in a beach of dull pebbles.

f***in A !! Fantastic! Love his Stevie voice too. They make a little sound like a hell of a lot too. Superb arrangement. Superb!!

[quote name='KingBollock' post='1316546' date='Jul 26 2011, 06:13 AM']My Mother-in-Law volunteers there. Has done for years.[/quote] Tidy darts, as we used to say It's a lovely little museum, Amgeddfa Caerfyrddin (sp?). I loved the library, there was a superb old book about ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs that I photocopied all 300 pages of, basically because I listened to Nik Turner's Sphynx all the bloody time, still do

[quote name='steve-bbb' post='1317587' date='Jul 26 2011, 08:20 PM']i know you didnt i did! [/quote] But where does my question end and your answer begin?

[quote name='steve-bbb' post='1317566' date='Jul 26 2011, 08:04 PM']for some there issues wonderful music with complete indfference to technique for some technique never ends and music never really begins [b]the two are rarely interdependent[/b] - there has been some great music by bands with very questionable musical technique and conversely there has been some highly technically proficient widdlers producing ..... well.... just plain widdle[/quote] Ahh, I never said they were

[quote name='nick' post='1317489' date='Jul 26 2011, 07:18 PM']Constantly.... Though not necessarily changing direction, more taking to, adding different styles & tastes. Guess its part of keeping an open mind musically, which can only be good. [/quote] Me too.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1317538' date='Jul 26 2011, 07:45 PM']In any art form it's possible to be creative with the minimum of resources. An artist can be creative with just a pencil. But the more resources you have to hand, the more you can explore the possibilities. If you only know the blues scale, it doesn't stop you writing great riffs. But you are still limited. Once you get into techniques like slap and tap, it opens up far more avenues. But these obviously get overused, as we have seen on past threads and Youtube clips. I think Victor Wooten has it nailed. He likens music to vocabulary. The more words you know, the broader your vocabulary. But then again, it's how you use those words. Hemingway's work used a limited vocabulary, but his writing was still amazing. [b]Whatever you know and don't know, it's all about how you use it.[/b] Does this make sense? [/quote] I think we'd all agree, but how do you know when you have used it as a reflection of yourself?

[quote name='BigRedX' post='1317537' date='Jul 26 2011, 07:44 PM']A couple of plywood basses: From [url="http://www.bas-extravaganza.nl/?page=bassen&BassenID=25"]Bas Extravaganza[/url][/quote] The unplayable action is its USP

I think technique is an external thing that we internalise, and our music is an internal thing that we externalise. There must be some collision somewhere inside the mind where some of the learned technique is turned into music and externalised without consciously thinking about it; some of the technique is unused and lost, perhaps to come out in a new form later; and some comes back out as unmusical technique since it represents no real collision. I also think external music is internalised and has a collision with our 'inner' music and goes through the same cycles as technique does. I suppose we also have an 'inner' technique to some degree too. I think the question in the OP is how do you recognise what you externalise as technique or a true reflection of your 'inner' music? And if it IS a true reflection of your 'inner' music, does that make it more compelling to its audience (whomever that might be) than a regurgitation of technique. What prompts my question is that I watched that Hadrian Feraud solo vid in another thread (before going to rehearsal) and thought the very fast stuff was fairly unmusical and mostly technique, however the way he got out of those sections and back into the rhythm was extremely musical and very compelling. In mid-rehearsal, we were about to work on a new number when I thought I would play with a pick. Because I am WAY better with a pick than with fingers, I found myself to be way more expressive and colourful, and had a few magic moments. One in particular was when our new drummer and I both improvised a half-bar 16th note fill at exactly the same time without looking at eachother, or ever having played the song before, the drummer hadn't even HEARD the song before. We were clearly both getting the same reaction to the feeling and dynamic of the song. I don't even know if he noticed, but it WAS music

[quote name='Mikeg' post='1316208' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:37 PM']im a tad confused as to what tonewoods actualy are. im guesing that they are higher quality and more resonant that normal hardwoods. But how does this work? Also if i were to go down to my local sawmill and ask for quartersawn ash, would it be good for making a bass out of? Cheers Mike[/quote] Tonewoods are a marketing ploy to get you to spend more money.

[quote name='ZMech' post='1316785' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:07 AM']I'd say it's partly the motivation for the notes/method you're choosing. If you play some crazy fast run because you think that's what suits the song best, then it's music, but if you're doing it just because you're able to, then maybe not so much.[/quote] How does the listener discern that motivation from the end result?

[quote name='Johnston' post='1316784' date='Jul 26 2011, 11:07 AM']Are we talking Technique as in what the talkbassers call chops?? (I had some lovely ones in tabacco onions the other day nom nom) Or technique as in Thumb on the neck proper fret per finger etc etc?? If it's the latter isn't their a bassist how isn't too shabby who puts their hand over the nck because he was a violinist and felt more natural?? And then of course wrong technique didn't hurt Jeff Healy much on guitar [/quote] Chops, theory, not correct posture.

[quote name='johnny_frog' post='1316700' date='Jul 26 2011, 10:02 AM']For me, music in its purest form is an art... a method of creative expression. Thechnique and music theory give you the tools/language to allow you to express yourself in a way others can understand. However just knowing the technique doesn't neccessarily make you creative... I can write in english because I have the tools but that doesn't make me a poet. All personal opinion/viewpoint of course[/quote] It's interesting because music is a language, you can learn its vocabulary, but how does one COMMUNICATE to others in a way they understand what is intended? It's an interpretive language and I think drawing parallels with verbal languages is inadequate.

Serious question.

[quote name='neepheid' post='1316232' date='Jul 25 2011, 08:49 PM']You tell me: I would guess medium, but it just seems right to me. I wear my bass so that it's at the same(ish) height regardless if whether I'm sitting down or standing.[/quote] That's medium hot.

[quote name='KingBollock' post='1312244' date='Jul 22 2011, 12:18 AM']Cross Hands. Actually, that's another thing I really do miss, course fishing rivers and canals. There a some course lakes about but they're pretty soulless. I've ended up buying beach fishing tackle to make up for it. Can't be doing with game fishing.[/quote] I know Cross Hands Yes, I don't dig game fishing anymore. Coarse fishing is what I love. There are some nice little pools around there though, some decent underfished natural lakes, some hold nice carp, a couple I fished are a bit spooky! Do a bit of research and you can find some decent fishing, then go and permission to fish from the farmer. Read Casting at The Sun by Chris Yates, it might inspire you with his tales of finding secluded lakes to fish in the 1970s. There are some very good coarse rivers mate, check this site for river reports, quite a few in Wales. There are a few commercials too, but they are a bit soulless, I agree. Best of luck.

[quote name='molan' post='1313443' date='Jul 23 2011, 12:58 AM']Anyone watch the Hawkwind programme afterwards? I once monitor engineered for them at a gig - absolute hoot & they kicked some serious ass live![/quote] Saw most of that too, very interesting!