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[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1345927571' post='1783340'] We've already had this discussion about MusicMen (MusicMans??) so what about Warwicks?? What defines a classic Warwick sound? [/quote] It's whatever you want it to be.

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1346015377' post='1784198'] As I said in my post above. No way would I ever allow a system that allowed people to bad mouth one party, because it is possible that a death in the family or something genuinely awful has occurred which means they couldn't complete the deal. I realize that this is not always the case, and people may lie about why they pulled out. But that's their moral and ethical issue and they have to live with that. Shame on them if they invent excuses. However we cannot prove if whatever happened to them was genuine or not so we cannot implement bad feedback when no transaction has occurred. There is a reason why sellers on eBay cant leave feedback for watchers of items that never bid, Imagine the chaos! To clarify my comment above. Yes you should be able to leave bad feedback if you have spent money to try and do a deal, such as travel or a courier that was never used. However you need to talk to the seller/buyer first for a resolution before you leave feedback and provide us with proof of purchase of travel/courier. [/quote] Absolutely bang on, Shockwave. I applaud you for this stance, even though I've had similar experiences to the OP on occasion.

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1345995103' post='1783894'] as alanis would say .... isnt it ironic .... that both/either options will often produce more or less the same end result [/quote] That is not ironic

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1345992068' post='1783863'] Virtuoso is a word that is massively over used. BGM called David Ellefson a virtuoso in the latest mag. He's a solid player, certainly and very good at what he does. But has he mastered the instrument or indeed music? Can he be mentioned in the same breath as Nigel Kennedy? No? Well he's not a virtuoso then. [/quote] Ha, I saw that and thought the same thing

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1345978801' post='1783680'] Something was posted on here recently saying that pop music was increasingly homogenised. Is it any wonder that the musicians playing it are equally homogenised? Its the difference between art and craft. You can 'learn' how to be a craftsman but being an artist takes a whole different set of disciplines and investment. Faster, higher or further is just the mechanics . I remember talking to someone about studying composition in university and they said that it tells you how to develop stuff but it won't give you the ideas in the first place. Kind of covers it in my view. Great chops is the starting point not the end point. [/quote] Exactly. But there is also the self-discipline issue that I think most musicians suffer, I mean, having a monster penis doesn't mean the subtleties of foreplay aren't necessary anymore. Sorry for the lame analogy

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1345976798' post='1783654'] This has long been the view of many musicians that I've met and worked with (over many years) who have learnt their craft doing it the old fashioned way, ie. locking themselves away in their bedroom and eventually joining a band and honing their skills on the road in seedy pubs and clubs. Generally speaking, those that didn't have much to say or felt that they were not listened to would fall by the wayside. Those that had something different to say and were applauded would often go on to be innovators. Many of those from the colleges, while being virtuosos (in asmuch as they know their way around their instrument and more theory than I'll ever know), simply don't have anything different to say. Of course, there will always be the exception. [/quote] That's a very interesting view from the professional long termer side of the fence, thanks Steve. I grew up with the hope of being in a situation like yours one day. I suppose the pinnacle of the band situation for me was always something like Rush. Great friends playing together for decades in one band, each member having a style that sounds like no-one else, and no-one else sounding like them, just having a style that suits the band, not being a great all-rounder who can do anything with anyone, that to me is more mechanical than musical, nothing wrong with that of course as long as you can do it with taste and style.

[quote name='chardbass' timestamp='1345975618' post='1783636'] I'm reminded of that famous video (think it was a Zildjan Drum Day or sim) with Weckl, Colauita and Gadd. The first two were heavy in thrills and chops and Gadd absolutely shone with feel and taste beyond comparison. 3 unique, or at least instantly recognisable, voices in the drum world at that time. [/quote] I like that video, all three are distinct to me, they all sound different. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln6b_nBM-V8

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1345927274' post='1783337'] So would I in all probability lol. I believe Jonas Hellborg locked himself away early on in his career and emerged suddenly on the scene and blew people away with his 'virtuosity'. Food for thought. [/quote] Well he actually started playing when he was a kid and loved the rock music from that era, Hendrix, Purple etc. Then he got into Miles Davis and John McLaughlin. So he may have locked himsel in a room but what inspired and influenced him to do that was John and Miles.

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1345926464' post='1783327'] Are they a product of their environment? Would the same person locked away in a room with a bass guitar without any external influence produce the same 'music'? Maybe we should all stop listening and just play what we feel. [/quote] We are products of our environment and influences though. We grow up with music and we naturally want to emulate what made us feel good. Making yourself feel good outside of those influences and inspirations would be largely impossible. If you locked me in a room with a bass, you would find me trying to smash the f***ing door open with it, I wouldn't be playing it

[quote name='gub' timestamp='1345924353' post='1783288'] That's why I chose not to be a virtuoso ! [/quote] But you raise a good point. I often feel I should be a much better player and theorist all round, but in what I do, my challenges are normally about taste and serving the song, and nuanced articulation, and it's really these things that can imbue your playing with your personality. The way I play is all down to what motivates me, I love certain types of music and they influence me and teach me. We all love some incredible incendiary technique, but after a short while it gets tiring, the MUSIC is what will have have lasting effects on our lives. I hope these guys get a living at what they love, but the music media seem to bombard us with virtuosos and telling us that we should aspire to their levels. It all seems to be mostly about the super-chops session players these days. I'm bored shitless of hearing them if I'm honest.

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1345917163' post='1783157'] I know what you mean. Nige. I don't think we'll see an original bass voice much, as I think it's all been done, and schools are churning out players like this. [/quote] I suppose it's quite natural to think everything has been done, but it hasn't, every month proves it, with new styles of music and genres emerging.

I've noticed most young(ish) virtuosos I've seen seem to sound pretty much the same. I think it's all these Berklee grads and whathaveyou learning from the same sheets and tutors and influences. Not only that but they all seem to want to play solo, even though they are playing supporting instruments, and when they do, they all have the same sort of tones, chops, phrasing, accents .. I'm not even sure what my point is But I wish there were more young virtuosos with more individual voices, I think. Am I barking up the wrong tree? EDIT: I think my point is that given many of these people have extraordinary ability, knowledge, adept at many styles and techniques, are they in thrall to the demands of musical 'norms' pre-defined for such players? Are they all under pressure to demonstrate they are 'the next Colaiuta' or 'the next Jaco' like we constantly read in music magazines and online? Taste and imagination have always seemed to me to be more important than superpower chops. I tried to find a bass version of the Berklee drummers video below but I didn't try to hard, I think you get the idea [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4JPm6gbd8A[/media]

[url="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19370862"]http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-19370862[/url] Bloody hell. I expect a lot of that was court costs from his unsuccessful appeal.

[quote name='x_Morning_Star_x' timestamp='1345887690' post='1782731'] Haha yeah sorry "Growl" is a bad word to use , well the guy on this link has Justin's sound nailed although he uses a Wal [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtM-rKr-ueI[/media] i i know you guys say you can get a similar tone from a stingray and thunderbird, and actually i am thinking about getting a thunderbird along with a sansamp bass driver pedal to go through my GK2001rb i should manage to get somewhere near with that set up really [/quote] That is tuned to D flat. If you use a roundwound 105/110 E and tune it to D flat, I can almost guarantee to you will get the sound you're after. And it's not so much the 'growl' you are hearing, it's the way the string starts slightly sharp when you hit it and then settles in to pitch. It sounds heavy and aggressive. Also, get a bolt on, neck throughs apparently lack an area of mid range that may contribute to your 'growly' sound.

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1345838474' post='1782364'] i beg to differ.... this thread about a natural growl from a stock instrument.... i doubt you could get a proper growl from a P bass with any natural eq setting... through effects yes... [/quote] Is natural growl a product of nature? Or anger?

I wanted that 'classic Jazz bass squeak' but mine had a Badass II on, so it sort of snarled. I hear the word 'bark' a lot too, but these things are made of trees so of course they do.

There's that 'growl' word again. What does it mean?

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1345753472' post='1781351'] it's an interesting thing that goes around on on in these kind of topics - how do I become a pro, session work, etc etc..... It's of course very important to network, be punctual, own realiable gear, etc etc, but the thing that goes BEFORE everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING, is being able to [b]play[/b]. You Have to be able to improvise, you have to have your chops high up in there, so that you pull out ANY stuff, that might come in; know (and be able to play) different styles, etc... but first of all, it's all about playing - it doesn't matter how hard you network, and how many cats you might get to know, but if your playing is not happening, then you won't get there. [/quote] Agreed. You have to be everything, and some of that has got to be better than most. But taste and being cool are very very important I would think.

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1345835802' post='1782326'] That is f***ing spot on. [/quote] S'good innit!

Esperanza Spalding - Radio Music Society 'Let Her' is my favourite at the moment, mostly because of the gorgeous harmonisation of the chorus vocal melody, it's f***ing glorious! Wonderful bass under it too. I love the whole album now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CqCBFxtAWM

What a vile looking monstrosity.

As has been suggested, you need to hit people in the pocket. Definitely have a cancellation fee. I would politely tell him you don't want to teach him unless he can demonstrate some commitment, maybe he has some family trouble going on or something that's causing this unreliability. But nevertheless it's not fair on you.

Nice vid, thanks. I'm so glad Alex pronounces it YY ZED

[quote name='BigAlonBass' timestamp='1345577161' post='1779105'] Sorry, but the phrase "un-original, thieving talentless b*stards" has always tripped lightly off my tongue. [/quote] Ooh dear! We are all musical thieves, don't try to convince yourself otherwise. Hip Hop is far more 'original' than most pop and rock music, and the good stuff is very good indeed. What is talent?

[quote name='OliverBlackman' timestamp='1345664684' post='1780296'] I found this ages ago, its worth a read. [url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct98/articles/sessionmusic.html"]http://www.soundonso...ssionmusic.html[/url] [/quote] What an absolutely fascinating read. Thank you!