Al Krow

It's a very interesting point you make. The subject of 'tone woods' is obviously a divisive / controversial one with many (me included) being sceptical of the impact of importance of the wood choices in the mix other than to look / feel good as a playing instrument rather than impact per se on the sound. But the point you're articulating of woods + pups => key combination for delivering 'growl' has been more scientifically presented than anything I've recently come across on the topic, so very well done in arriving at your insight.

Yup this one:

The SC caps out at 4kHz. Which tends to limits top end 'zing' if you're looking to slap. As a bass cab it's a lovely piece of kit.

I'm going to turn the cab upside down. All fair points, matey. And IEMs are something defo worth discussing. We've kinda shot ourselves in the foot on this though as we upgraded our mixer only a few months back and the band (primarily the drummer - he and I are the ones who tend to deal with the PA and mixing issues) wanted to keep it analogue and simple and not go down the digital mixing route, so we ended up getting a big brother Allen & Heath mixing desk. We don't have a dedicated sound guy so it's a case of getting everything set up and doing a quick sound check before gigs and tweaking a touch as we go along - the beauty of an analogue mixer with just one monitor is that it is really easy to tweak. I think to get individual tailored IEM outputs we're going to need to get a capable digital mixer - or have I got that wrong?

Having said all that, this talk of IEMs has reminded me that there is an additional very neat feature on my DG AO M900 which wasn't present on my M900 v1 and which could get around the limitations of having just one A&H monitor output. I'll check that out later today to see if it provides an alternative temporary fix which I might be able to combine with an IEM for just me and report back.

Hah! I think fair to say the main beneficiary here is me as the bass player, being able to hear myself better and also my sound for the audience in that I'm not having to cut the volume so that it's not too loud on stage. A £1000+ cab is indeed a princely sum. But the fair comparison for me is something like getting a Fearless F112 which is £800+ combined with a RCF 310A as a dedicated bass monitor which costs around £300, plus upgrading our A&H Mixer, which I think only has one monitor output and certainly only one master monitor volume control. The approach I'm trying to adopt is a very incremental / non invasive one i.e. just replacing an existing bass cab with another one rather than proposing a wholesale change to the band's set up involving possibly a digital mixer and IEMs, which is a battle for another day.

Superb post @Kiwi - thank you.

Yeah the Fearless F112 is a great option and from my research of folk who have had both, the Fearless has edged it sonically, with an additional mid driver & speaker, plus having the very useful wedge feature John mentioned. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/comparing-f112-bb2.1245612/ The BB2 wins on build time and also weight. I thought the BB2 was the more expensive of the two, but let me double check. [EDIT: they're actually pretty comparable on price - the more expensive silver cloth BB2 is £20 more expensive than the most expensive spec'd F112]. Both great brands. The other cabs that get a lot of love, for good reason, with similar or greater power handling to the BB2 are the Vanderkley 210s. As a former Markbass cab owner who now has a BF SC, you're not going to be disappointed if you get a BB2.

Haha, very true dat Dave. For IEMs to work well IMO, we would need a set up where each IEM output can be tailored so that eg the vocalists can hear themselves individually boosted, I can hear more of the bass coming through mine etc. I'm guessing that's a relatively sophisticated system and not cheap? But it is what our simple non-IEM set up currently already allows us to do with just one monitor.

This your first BB? Thought you already had a couple? Either way, pic please! Trouble with the bottom end BBs is that they're so blo*ody good, you end up getting suckered into going up range pdq!

Haha yes "one" could! But out of interest how many of you boys and girls buy your bandmates their gear for them? It's certainly not the way we operate in my bands. A fair number of us on this forum are very fortunate to be able to afford great bass gear, but that's entirely our choice on how we spend our spare cash, whilst our (and certainly some of my) band mates might just have a mic and stand and may not want to or indeed be able to spend too much more. IEMs are definitely worth considering at some point. But I think to get the most of going down that route, is going to require a fair bit more investment than you've touched on so far. Eg it will depend on the mixer output capability and, unless I'm missing something, I don't think our otherwise excellent Allen & Heath Zed60 FX14 would handle IEMs in addition to a monitor for the vocalists.

We haven't, but sounds like we maybe should start thinking about this. I suspect budget constraints may come into play and cost / benefit considerations etc.

I was simply doing a mate a favour. The end!

I am! Sounds like a day out to the Midlands could be in the offing! Would that constitute a Fatberg if we both went to check out the cabs?

Aha! So should we more properly know you as YammysTu instead? 😁

@AndyTravis will be able to point you in the right direction on PGs, he's defo our resident expert! I take it that you're a Yammy 1024 & Spector bass lover? That's a club (well at least the 5 er versions) I'm delighted to have joined!

@dave_bass5 - but you have rightly raised the single BIG flaw in my proposed use (which I think John and others also raised earlier in the thread) which is the inability to independently control the volume of the rear facing speaker in the way that you would a monitor. Why I still think this should work is as follows: Bass cab will be positioned on the right / front side next to the right PA speaker; It will be angled-in towards the audience and the rear speaker will be angled away from the band => reducing stage vol All band members have ear protection => reducing stage vol The singers are in front of the full drumkit => bass stage vol shouldn't be overpowering compared to that and I will be nearest to the bass cab anyway to give myself the max benefit Overall that should comfortably mean that the volume to the audience can be what we need it to be without the stage volume being too loud for the rest of the band, and any stage vol will be an improvement over no bass monitor. @bassfan - it's taken me three years(!) to persuade our singers to use ear protection and they finally are, so we're not at the in-ear stage yet, but that would indeed be the solution to a lot of this, I know. I think Bass Direct are the main dealer for Berg cabs, but don't think he will necessarily be keeping something as specialist as the HG series cabs in stock.

Haha! But something kinda cool about an upside down Berg methinks? 😁

That makes a lot of sense putting the bass cab next to the drummer, but don't you find the bass cab then setting off "sympathetic" vibrations / rattles in the drum kit, which I find jarring / irritating, when you do that? Dave - was your Q at me or to Muzz / krispn? In my case, I just focus on the sound for the audience for gigs where we don't have a venue provided PA. The drummer seems to be able to hear us all well somehow, and the singers just want to hear themselves!

SC does the job splendidly! But the problem is if it's loud enough for the audience it's too loud for the singers, when it's in backline. I've dealt with that particular issue and also simultaneously cutting boominess / feedback by positioning my SC pretty much in line with the PA, but with no bass monitor. I'm kinda hoping that the rear facing cab gives me that extra monitor feature without needing to take another piece of kit. And I get your point about the rear facing speaker being ankle height. But there's an easy solution, right? Just turn the cab upside down.

Can't argue with that. But would you agree it should be a step up from a 112 BF SC with no bass monitor? We have our RCF 310As on stands, so the cunning plan would be to site the sub next to one monitor stand (sub will be used for functions only not pub gigs) and the bass cab next to other. We just then have one monitor for the vocals. Guitarist in one of my covers bands had a new digital mixer and decided to put through several monitors for a simple pub gig that we have played at loads before. OMG! Worst 20 mins start to a set ever with loads of feedback and stop / start. Ugh!

You can ask @dave_bass5to clarify that for you if you're still not sure! 😉

The F112 is an awesome cab, no question. And I'll probably end up buying it back off Dave at some point when he's onto his next thing - haha! I know folk feel the HG310 seems to be answering a question that hasn't been asked d, but given that I am backline only rather than via our RCF 310A PA, if this cab is placed in-line with the PA speakers, it will be ideal to be at volume for audiences without being too loud for the singers, and the rear facing cab would then be a built-in very high quality stage monitor for me and the drummer. Very portable to (and in the!) boot and avoids the need for a separate bass monitor. Does feel like a very neat all-in-one solution to me, and I'm starting to think this could well be in the running as a 2020 Krow addition. (Which is good, as I've been rapidly running out ideas for new gear and fearing I might need to successfully partake in a 2020 Sibob gear abstinence challenge) 😁 I think any other solution would require a dedicated bass monitor and possibly going fully FRFR, possibly with 12" PA speakers + sub. I appreciate a lot of folk are already making something like that work well.

Had a quick scan of the amps and cabs section there, couldn't find too much comment on it - if you've got a link to the thread, I'd be very interested.

That's fair. I appreciate it's got nothing to do with the sound, but carting a 210 sized cabinet is surprisingly easier than a 212 up / down stairs and in and out of the rear seat of a car (no way will a 212 fit into my boot with the rest of the gear in there), so if it's delivering a comparably good sound to the 212, then compactness for transport would be a big plus for some of us.