Greg Edwards69

I've recently jumped into the amp modelling ship with the Line 6 Helix. Got it in the spring and initially ran it into the fx return of my Carvin BX700 with Markbass 121H cab. The amp and cab sounded good, although I knew I wanted to streamline and replace the amp with an FRFR solution. This way I would be confident that the sound on stage would match the sound in the PA and IEM. Now using a Headrush FRFR-112 and I'm very happy with it so far. It sounds bigger and deeper than you'd expect. On paper it doesn't go as low as a dedicated bass cab, (Freq Resp 53hz-20khz +/-3db and Freq Range 46hz-22khz -10db), but a benefit of this is it's akin to having a built-in hpf - you can turn up the wick and it still sounds bassy but doesn't get muddy and boomy. I don't use cab models or IRs. I prefer a simple eq lpf eq block at the end of the chain to tame the tweeter. My reasoning is that almost every recorded bass tone you hear, and most live bass tones are usually DI from the bass into the desk or straight out of the amp. If a bass cab is mic'd it's usually blended with a DI. The tone I get out of an amp model straight to my FRFR sounds so much better, punchier and 'real' than the tone of an amp model, through a mic'd up cab, through my FRFR. Besides, many bass players, including myself, tend to choose an amp and cab solution that colours the bass tone as little as possible. You could argue that many bass amps/cabs are already FRFR. If this is your preference, why change it with a mic'd cab model? Also, FWIW, the SVT-Pro4 model in the latest Helix update is pretty damn perfect. Line 6 have really knocked it out of the park with this amp model. I've never used and ampeg and never bought an amp becuase of its colouration, but this one just sounds so good and sits in the mix perfectly.

Looking back at old gig photos in disbelief at what I was wearing to an average pub gig. Then there's the time I was depping with a friends band and had to change basses after the first song, so I didn't bother wrapping my lead through my strap as I usually do. Only for me to stand on said leaf halfway through the song and pull it out.

Hmmm. I tried my guitarists DXR10 alongside my headrush and they both performed admirably for my usage. I preferred the bottom end of the headrush however at volume. The specs show that the DXR10 has a higher low end roll off compared to the headrush. Still a great sounding speaker though. We use the DXR12's for our mains FOH speaker. FWIW: DXR10: Frequency range 56Hz - 20kHz (-10db) Headrush FRFR-112: Frequency range 46 Hz – 22 kHz (-10 dB) and Frequncy Response 53 Hz – 20 kHz (+/- 3 dB) Yamaha hasn't published a +/-3db frequency response for the DXR10 as far as I can see, but I'm certain it doesn't run as low as the headrush. Saying that. I realise that reproducing the fundamental isn't as important as many think - reproduction of the first and second-order harmonics is where the booty lies. The smaller headrush 108 has an even higher low end roll off (62hz - 20khz +/- 3db) and believe it or not, I'm tempted! I tried emulating the low cut on my helix and it sounded surprisingly good in rehearsal. I wouldn't want to gig with it at rock band volume, but it would be more than adequate and easier to manage for rehearsals and the odd low volume gig.

I have posted a detailed review of the Headrush 112 in the above megathread. For me, it does a great job as a backline amp paired with a Helix. However, I think how well it performs largely depends on your expectations and what you're comparing it too. I have only ever owned single speaker combos and cabs so transitioning to the headrush wasn't such a shock. If you're going from a larger multi-speaker cab such as a 4x10 then you would do well to beg/borrow/steal before committing yourself. As for whether the Alto and Headrush are the same or not is a matter that has never been quite cleared up. Some say they are essentially the same except for the mic preamp in the Alto which makes the headrush perform better for guitar/bass, some say there are some other differences such as internal baffling that tunes the headrush better for guitar/bass. I never had the chance to compare, as I found a used headrush 112 and case for the same price as a new Alto, so bought it straightaway.

Update on the Headrush FRFR-112 We had a party at the weekend for my wife's birthday. Hired out a bar, 80s theme, costumes.... the works! We had carefully curated 5 hours worth of classic 80s pop which I planned to play from my ipad straight into the headrush using a stereo to mono adaptor. Sat the headrush in a corner on a table, engaged the contour switch for little more bass and treble excitement and... Wow!. The sound and clarity from such an inexpensive speaker. Yes, I know that it's basically a PA speaker, but I was quite honestly stunned. Bags of volume and punchy room-filling sound (enough to make the mother-in-law ask me to turn it down - I, of course, said no, it's a party, move away from the speaker!) and the low end kept up without a struggle and without getting muddy. A few guests asked me about the speaker and were surprised at the low cost - one of them even started looking on ebay there and then, haha. If were in a place to recommend an inexpensive PA system to band I'd have no hesitation in telling them to get a couple of alto tops and sub if they need one. My brother, who's part of an am-dram group is also thinking about recommending Alto as an upgrade to their sound system on the strength of the headrush. -------- PS - gigged it a few times now for bass, very happy. Our drummer uses the spare channel for his Roland TM-1 trigger module - sounds fab.

The esteemed Mssr Billy Sheehan for me. Not only does he do crazy things with the bass, but his choice of string gauge is perfect on my Attitude bass. 0.043 on the top to allow easier bends, and .110 on the bottom so it remains solid when flicking the d-tuner down to low E.

I picked up this idea from Billy Sheehan. He has his pickup covers on the split P pickup set quite close to the strings and uses it as a ramp. Yes, it prevents you from overshooting the strings too much so you can play quicker, more consistently and less fatiguing. But, because it's a much smaller area than a proper ramp you can play around the pickup if you do want to dig in more or use a plectrum. There's an Attitude Bass owners group on FB. Some of the guys there have done what Billy does and apply a layer of epoxy to the surface of the pickup covers to get them closer to the strings without getting the pickup coils themselves closer. I'm not that brave to I got some 3 ply pearloid scratchplate material cut down and stuck it to the top of the pickup covers with strong double-sided tape. Looks great and plays even better.

Haha. The gear in that list was used over many years - copied and pasted it from my talkbass profile. It is in no way intended to show off - a lot of it isn't boutique or desirable anyway. It's just there as a reminder to myself of what I've previously owned and could offer real-world advice on if requested.

Haha - my bad. I added my profile info to the signature box my mistake. Schoolboy error. Apologies for derailing the thread. As you were.

I don't even know what happened there - I don't even have a signature set. All I can see is a large grey box above the quoted posted reading "0 Advanced issues found". The edit button doesn't work either so I can't fix it - must be a corrupted post!

That about sums up my thoughts too. I always felt the low was too low and the low mid was too high. There was nothing in between in the critical 100-250hz area. The high mid was about perfect at 800hz but again, another hole between low mid and high mid with no way to cut the 500hz honk. I sold my LM2 in favour of a Carvin BX700 a number of years ago. If I was in a place to buy a new amp the MM range are definitely ones I'd consider. All moot now though as I've switched to Helix and FRFR.

I'm afraid not. Wish we could, but we'll be sitting around a pool in sunny Spain instead. PS, how was the Venue on Friday. We played at The Garrison on Saturday and The Castle on Sunday. Absolutely melting! Saturday was one of the warmest gigs I've played.

Sorry, chap, wife's been struggling after a minor foot op and didn't fancy standing all evening. Not to mention I was gigging last night and again this afternoon so needed a night off.

I don't think they are particularly heavy, I think is just the ergonomics that make them appear so. The 4 string BO Thumb is 7.7lbs and the 5 string BO I had is 8.14lbs. Not a lot different to a typical Stingray or Fender, perhaps even a tad lighter. But yes, the tone is stellar.

I may have to drag the wife out

I used to play a 5 string Thumb BO for a number of years. It's a fine sounding bass, and some might say, a more defined growl than the Stingray and had one of the best necks I've ever played, and one that only gets better the more you play it. But, and it's a big but, the ergonomics (or 'geometry' as you say) are not for everyone. With a tiny body, big chunky neck and short upper horn, it's rather unbalanced and neck heavy. Some people recommend a wide grippy strap but all that did for me is ruck up my shirt. Others have no such issue with the instrument. You could say it's a rather 'marmite' issue - people are either fine with it or can't deal with it. Personally, it got to the point that I was in pain for a couple of days after every gig, so it had to go, as much as I loved the instrument. I went in a completely different direction and now play a Yamaha Attitude Ltd2 (essentially a hot-rodded P bass). Totally different tone, feel and ergonomics. Funny thing is, when I pulled out the Thumb last year to sell it after languishing in a gig bag for 8 years, I just couldn't play it very well. Felt totally alien to me. So anyway, to sum up. Great sounding bass, well built, brilliant neck. But please do try before you buy, preferably on a strap for a whole gig.

Helix for me. Much easier. I guess you have to ask yourself, how much of your tone comes from the amp? And how much comes from the cab too, to a certain extent. Also, if the amp does play a part in your tone, but not the cab, can it be used without a cab plugged in? FWIW, the next helix update will include an SVT-4 Pro model. Could be a good replacement for your SVT-7

I used to use Pod Farm for practice at home and the odd bit of recording. I didn't care for any of the bass amp models and much preferred the console emulations

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of that and it's history. It's my main reason and argument for not using cab modelling with the helix and my Headrush speaker. Like you say, most recorded and live bass sounds we hear are either DI, straight into the desk or from the amp's DI. It's rare you'll see a bass cab miked up as the only source, it's usually mixed with a DI if it is. My previous amps have been pretty neutral sounding and I generally eq for the room rather than a specific tone - that what my pedals are for. I haven't really been a fan of amps that imprint a certain colour on every bass that's plugged into them - hence I've never really explored bass amp modelling. That said, I'm loving the tone of the GK 800rb model in the Helix, it just works for me. A judicious and precise hi cut and it's there. And I can use the global eq to compensate for different rooms acoustics. It's certainly made my life easier. Having the confidence that the sound I get on stage will be replicated fairly accurately through the FOH will make a big difference. None of this pre/post DI nonsense. If I need to adjust my stage sound for the room I can do that without interfering with the FOH sound.

Absolutely. I've been aware of amp modelling for some time but just didn't 'get it'. I didn't quite get the value of running an amp modeller into a bass amp and cab which has it's own voice (even when using the fx return). An frfr speaker was the missing link and now it all makes sense. I've now got a bunch of classic amp sounds at my fingertips (or toes) and I know they'll sound pretty much identical to the real thing.

Great stuff. Bright Onion built me a custom kill switch with a phase switch for my EBS Billy Sheehan pedal. Transformed the tone. A lot cheaper than buying the revised EBS pedal that features the phase switch. For enquiring minds, the Sheehan pedal has two channels, clean and drive which were purposely designed to be out of phase to accentuate the mid range. It also has a compressor circuit after the two channels are mixed together along with discrete fx loops for each channel. Unfortunately, it's either all on or off. So a few of us enterprising fanboys stuck an ABY switch in the dirty loop so we could leave the pedal engaged with its compression and switch the drive channel in and out at will. But that out of phase tone just didn't work for me all of the time. Great for Sheehan style shredding, but not as an all round drive. I asked Bright Onion to build a kill switch but with the LED reversed, so that it comes on whilst bypassed (drive on) and off when engaged (drive off). The phase switch was the icing on the cake. Totally transforms the tone. IIRC the price wasn't far off a bog standard branded ABY pedal. Certainly a lot cheaper than the Radial Bigshot ABY pedal I was eyeing up that would also work.

Update. Finally had the chance to use my Headrush FRFR-112 at a band rehearsal at the weekend with the Helix LT. Result? Very happy. It was just a 'technical' rehearsal with three of us as one of the guitarist and both vocalists weren't available. So just guitarist, drums and me. The drummer had a new toy he wanted to try out too (roland drum pad and sampler thing). I needed to check the headrush was going to work, so seemed like an ideal opportunity to try these things out without interference. I've mentioned before, we're not a loud band, and I previously used a single markbass 1x12 with a Carvin head running at 300w@8ohms. Before the Helix arrived I had issues with boom and mud I just couldn't dial out. It was much better with the helix's hpf engaged, but now with the headrush, much better. The low end is controlled, still fat and deep enough even at high volume. I had it set a volume I felt I would normally gig at and it was fine - didn't even break a sweat. As an experiment I turned up the wick to a sort of volume I'd never play at, and where my previous rig would get 'woolly'. Again, absolutely fine. The natural roll-off around 50hz really helped. In fact, I was able to turn the hpf on the Helix (which I also had set at 50hz from before) off without negatively affecting the tone. I found I prefer the tone of the Helix amp sims without a cab sim. To my ears, they just seem to kill the tone too much and don't 'feel' right (amp in the room syndrome perhaps). The key is a high cut instead around 3-4khz to simulate a real bass cab roll off. This, for me, more closely represents a DI from an amp going straight to the desk. Hopefully, this will translate nicely to FOH when we try that. FWIW, I also tried my backup preamp, a Valetone Dapper Bass straight into the headrush. Sounded fine. Sure, it's not as refined as the Helix, but it simulates a bass amp with 3 band eq and I'm sure it will get me out of a jam if need be. It may even suffice for the odd small gig with a short set where I need to travel light. Both of the guitarists use a Helix as well, each through a Yamaha DXR10, so I tried my bass through that as well. Not quite as deep but again, will get me out of a jam if the headrush fails. Likewise, my Headrush will be more than adequate to share as a backup to one of the Yamahas. Lastly, as another experiment. I remembered the smaller headrush FRFR-108 rolls of the low end around 70hz, so I set the hpf to that frequency. More than adequate for rehearsal, so I'm almost tempted to pick one up for rehearsals and small low volume gigs.

Same here. Both of the guitarists in my band use a Helix with a Yamaha DXR10. Now I've joined the Helix party, we're looking at changing the way we run things to get everything through the FOH and IEMs as so far we generally use the FOH and IEM's for vocals and have everything else coming off the stage. Even so, we've only used small amps and cabs. Personally, I've been using a single Markbass 1x12 with a Carvin/markbass head running at 350w @8ohms for the past 10-15 years or so. Never had to turn it up even halfway for the loudest of rock gigs, so I think the headrush will perform similarly. Once we get everything running through the FOH, it could be I don't even need that, and IEMs will suffice, or at least the FRFR-108 for rehearsals. I'd keep the 112 regardless, just in case as I sometimes dep with other bands.

Of course. Not sure when our next rehearsal is, but I’ll post a report here afterwards.

I managed to pickup a used Headrush FRFR-112 on ebay last week for a good price (£229). Yet to play it with the band, but I'm positive it'll be fine - sounds great at home so far. One of these, or its (cheaper) sister product the Alto TS312 might be fine for you to jam with a drummer and guitarist. Don't quote me on it, but you might be able to get away with the smaller Headrush FRFR-108 / Alto TS308. It should be loud enough but might lack depth at volume.