solo4652

It didn't sound very good to me. Mind you, it was our very first time together. And the singers hadn't agreed the harmonies, And the songwriter/lead vocalist wasn't the best singer in the room and needs to pass that baton across to one of the others. And the song arrangement needs a lot of work. And the singers are not used to performing with a rhythm section. I've said I'd play with them on a sort of session basis. Once they've got the vocals sorted, they can be recorded on a phone and sent to me. I'll add the bass, and when everybody's reasonably comfy, we can meet up to play what's been agreed remotely. Songwriter not happy with that suggestion, and wants everybody to meet face-to-face "to grow the song(s) organically and cooperatively". That is so very different from learning your bass part in a covers band before rehearsal. My discomfort is probably a reflection of my need to know what I'm doing before I get to rehearsal.

This is a sort of follow-on from my "Duffer's guide to writing lyrics" thread. Having played in covers bands for the last 10 years, I decided to join an originals band, primarily to do something different. The "band" is: Four singers (yes, four), three of whom are classically trained, and highly experienced chorale singers. The fourth is a classically trained pianist, who also sings. She is the songwriter too. There is a classically trained viola player who works full-time in various orchestras, and as a teacher. She plays acoustic guitar too. There is a drummer, and there's me on bass. Yesterday, I turned up for our very first meeting having written out an initial bassline for a pop/ballad song. I sat there for a whole hour while vocalists did exercises, Then, it was 20 minutes of relaxation exercises for everybody. Time to play music? Not as such - songwriter split us into singers in one corner, rhythm section in another and then spent 20 minutes with each group. Yet more waiting around. Finally we got to play as an ensemble for fully 20 minutes before we ran out of rehearsal room time. Songwriter tells me that this way of working is common amongst classically-trained musos. Is that correct? Don't know whether I have the patience.

I like that. A lot. Let us know where it ends up, please.

Thank you. That's exactly the sort of advice I was looking for.

Ha! 😁 You want dodgy doggerel? - I'm your man. You want catchy song lyrics - speak to Dad 3353!

Exactly the same with my over-wrought hand-wringing "poetry"! Awful.

Now that hadn't occurred to me! However, for me, lyrics should be meaningful. Also, they should rhythm, and they scan. Maybe this is where I'm going wrong - trying too hard. Here's an example. I've just been to the barbers. While waiting, I jotted down a few lines. Bear with me. Please be gentle with this heart of mine. Most of my women inhabit my past, and all of those women took me to task. Never so lonely, now ever so clear that fear of short-falling should stay in my past. More verses would tell of moving on, recovery, growing, optimism, being cherished for the first time ever. I'd re-work the last line of that first verse for the last line of each verse. Title = Future past. Too deep for song lyrics? Trying too hard?

I have been writing poetry on and off for many years, and could probably raid my "back catalogue" *cough* for start-point phrases and ideas. For all I know, some of my poems may even work as lyrics. Trouble is, my musical knowledge and theory is pretty scant. To what extent would that impact upon writing song lyrics? Also, to what extent do you consciously write a hook into lyrics? Or do you concentrate on the meaning and poetry first, and then maybe attempt to fit some rhythm/tune around that? I feel I could do the former, but not the latter.

Any suggestions, please? I've done a quick web search, but I'd welcome any and all suggestions.

Oh yes. I've been lusting after some cool funk vibes for a long time now, bludgeoned as I've been by a double-kick rock drummer. Must show him the Fearless Flyers vids - snare, kick and hi-hat, and that's all. Thanks for posting all these videos - they've re-awakened by mojo.

Short scale Hollowbody Skyline, on left of picture. Modified by previous owner with pan pot. Best short scale I've owned - indeed, quite possible the best bass of any scale length I've had.

I use a Yoga D-606: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pulse-d606-Snare-Drum-Microphone/dp/B00785DZ8E £22. This is for busking with a lightly amped acoustic trio at local craft/food fairs, and suchlike. If there's a desk feed available, I'll go through the PA. If not, I'll go through my Eden E10 bass combo. I can be loud enough without any amplification, but that means I have to hit the cajon fairly hard, which is not good for my neck/arm/shoulder arthritis. On a related note, I've also cobbled together a folding stand so I can sit on a chair rather than the cajon itself in an effort to stop me from leaning forward and slouching when playing.

Aaah. Apologies for the repeat post in that case.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-worlds-worst-short-scale-electric-bass-guitar-Lynne/142924619217?hash=item2146f89dd1:g:fG4AAOSwN91bcDLo

Our gig for tomorrow night has been cancelled - singer has just rung in sick. That's a real shame because band leader was talking about trying a new PA setup - quite what, though, I don't know. Our next gig isn't until June, so we'll have the chance to try out new things in rehearsals - as long as everybody agrees.

Don't quite know what to make of this idea...

OK - quick update from last night, folks. We arrived at venue at 5, just about ready to play by 8-30. Smallish stage meant we had to move things around quite a bit from our usual positions. While setting up, I kept asking: "Why do we..." The early-evening reply from BL and drummer was; "Steve - you don't understand what we're doing, do you?" I meant to take an inventory of the PA kit, but was too busy fetching and carrying. I did note that front speakers are pole-mounted 15" Mackies of some sort. Rear of stage are two new 15" pole-mounted full-range Yamahas ("£900 each, Steve.."), with one perched above an enormous 18" Yamaha sub. Three floor wedge monitors out front. Myself and guitarist went through our own rigs. BL ended up standing right in front of one of the rear speakers and quickly started to comment on the volume. I had the chance to speak to the drummer as we went out for pizzas. As I suspected, he's very happy to have his electronic drums through the rear speakers. Me: "Don't you find the stage too noisy?" Drummer: "No, I'm used to much more volume than this" Me: "Why can't you go through the front speakers?" D: "Because they're poor quality, and my electronic drums sound crap through them" Me: "We could put the new Yamahas out front - they're full-range, aren't they? - and put everybody through them. Use whatever floor monitors are necessary, and dispense with the Mackies and the sub completely. What do you think?" D: "I'm not sure the speakers would cope with that. My bass drum and your bass would surely interact. And, I like to feel my bass drum. Remember that we're aiming for a lush, full sound." At that point, I decided not to press the point any further. Having said all that, the gig went very well. The venue manager said; "Best band I've heard in 35 years. We'll definitely have you back, and I'll get you booked in for some weddings too". BL stood in front of one of the rear speakers and was seen wincing. The load-out included dropping everything off at BL's house, and lead singer was heard to comment, "I think we need to have a word with (BL) about all this stuff..." So, I think that wheels have been set in motion for some pressure to be put onto BL. However, we'll need to work on his son - the drummer. Steve

Well, because I try to be helpful and a good band-member. Also, I live close to the rehearsal room (and tonight's gig venue), while the lead guitarist and lead singer don't.

I'm not saying he double-kicks on all songs! He can, and does, pull back when he needs to. However, with Hush, You know my name, You're all I have, Feeling Good (Muse), Learn to Fly - things can get pretty, errrrm, frantic.

I have a suspicion that our drummer quite likes having his electronic kit firing out from behind him. He's a very accomplished double-kick rock drummer and is egged-on by our Malmsteen-loving (prog) rock guitarist, and UFO-fan lead vocalist when he (drummer) gives it the two-foot bass drum treatment. I'm left standing there shaking my head and mouthing "You noisy b**stards" at them. They giggle at me. I suspect the band leader is under some pressure to go large with the PA and volume from these 3 individuals. The drummer is his son. My gig timetable for today: go to rehearsal room at 4 o'clock to help load all the PA stuff, electronic drums, monitors, lights, into cars. Drive about 4 miles to the venue and unload, and help set up. Guitarist and singer have been asked to arrive by 6-30 to get their kit in, and sound check done. Show time is 8-30. After gig, help with breakdown, take stuff to band leaders house, go home. What a faff.

He's a nice guy, actually, and I get on well with him. Part of the problem may be that he's trying to keep the band's two sub-camps happy - there's the loud 'n' blokey rockers, and there's the groove-oriented soul funksters, which is where I am.

Quick update: Quietly and carefully, behind the scenes, I've put the main points from this message thread to the band leader, including Mike257's kind offer of advice. Not a word back yet. We're gigging 7th and 13th April. I'll watch what happens - see what changes, if any are made - and then take a view on the situation. You can lead a horse to water, but.....

That's very generous Mike. Thank you. I'll choose my moment with him and put your kind offer to him in as unthreatening way I can muster. See what he says. Steve PM'd you regarding your offer.

Well - it's a pretty consistent picture that's emerging from you guys. Thanks to everybody for your advice. I've sent most responses (carefully edited) to band leader, saying that since I don't know much about PA systems, I asked "some experienced musos" for their independent advice. We're gigging the next two weekends and band leader has said that we won't be changing the set up, but that we'll have a pow-wow after that.