drTStingray

Cool bass. If you go on the Ernie Ball Musicman forum, there's a sticky thread there and if you give them your serial number they'll reply with the exact DOB, colour/neck/pg spec and where it was shipped to. The musicman org site is the brain child of a great guy from Australia who's a big Musicman fan and shared all his acquired and historic knowledge of these instruments on the net - he's also a moderator at the official Musicman forum - the org site is the best (and possibly only) place for serial no info about pre EB Musicman basses. I'd guess you should be able to get £650 to 750 for this bass. There are a lot of people who want to own Stingrays (and a select group of individuals who hate them as well!!). It's in the oriiginal sunburst colour - at that time (late 80s to mid/late 90s) EBMM ran a custom colour called vintage sunburst, with a price uplift. Later, original sunburst was renamed honeyburst and vintage sunburst just became a regular colour called............sunburst :(confusing but true! Lovely colour though - I have one. The short bridge on yours first appeared on the 20th Anniversary Stingray in 96.

I'm astonished he's not tried a Stingray 5H with flats - plucked around where the pick up is on a Precision. They do natural thump rather well. If you use the HH version you can use the inner coils setting, but the first suggestion should do it just as well. I once saw a guy using an SR5H on a Stax soul show - got the Duck Dunn feel rather well.

Gorgeous - congrats.

I've had several sets of Elites on my SR5 in the past and they do the job well. The DR MM fatbeams have been great however - they seem to produce a bit more mid range as well. Elixirs also sound great on a Stingray. However, I can't wait to try some EB Cobalts on one of my SRs - I have them on my Bongo 5 and have been blown away by the increased volume, clarity and general presence they add to the bass sound - according to the blurb they enhance output across the whole range but particularly in the upper mids. The Bongo wasn;t lacking in presence in a mix in the first place, but it just does it even better with these. Not sure what the price is like for 4 string sets but definitely worth a go.

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1338977953' post='1681800'] The Big Al has the same sound? I thought, given the arrangement, it would be a very different animal - and thus hadn't even considered it, let alone began to wonder what the neck might be like. [/quote] Yeah the neck is the Sterling profile - by all accounts these are killer basses - they have the MM DNA sound, but can nail a whole bag full of tones - and the passive tone is said to be very good indeed also - worth trying one out if you get the chance. I've personally only played one acoustically at a show but it felt very good and the neck was great. If Musicman UK have any in stock on their site you can get one taken to a local dealer to try out. As for prices, if you can find a dealer with a Sterling in stock you may get a much better deal if you're willing to take that item off their hands - otherwise shop around - you should get a decent deal even on an SLO special Ray from one of the bigger outlets. Just have to wait 6 months for it to arrive! Arrrrrrrgh the GAS You should get an immaculate used Sterling for £750 ish - you may just have to wait a while for the right one to come up.

[quote name='bigsmokebass' timestamp='1338865983' post='1680269'] The Roto's I have set on it haven't only released tension in the neck but also sound and feel great on this bass. I thought at the time, using EB strings would benefit this a lot, as you imagine the manufacturer would know a lot about thier instruments and strings . . . Roto's forever BSB [/quote] I certainly haven't had a problem with EB strings - all the Musicman basses I have had from new have not had a neck problem as shipped, and they and the others I have haven't had one when re-strung with the same spec - 4 string and 5 string across different models. When you get chance, try the guage they're shipped with. Bear in mind Ernie Ball is a string manufacturer - they sell strings for generic instruments - it doesn't neccessarily follow that every type they make will be the best alternative for every type of Musicman instrument. The heavier the guage the more tension on the neck. Best of luck with your Rotos - I used to use these all the time and I agree they sound great initially, especially for certain genres of music.

Interesting you have this problem. FWIW I don't think the oil and wax finish makes any difference - I have several and they behave no differently from the MM basses I have with finished necks. You may have a neck problem but it may equally be affected by string choice. I had a similar problem to you when I strung my SR5 with Rotosound Jazz Bass flats - standard guage - what had hitherto been a great bass with a fast neck became virtually unplayable because the string tension was so great. Not only did it increase the back bow but the strings were so taught it was actually painful to play, and frankly impossible to play any line with any intricasy or speed involved. A while back I found out that EBMM ship their 4 string basses with 100/80/65/45 strings so I now string my 5s with 125/100/80/65/45 (currently have DR Marcus Miller signature on my SR5 which sound great) and this helps not only any tension issues, but also helps to balance the sound of the B and E strings better against the rest of the bass - at some amp EQ settings the B and E strings especially can overpower - I wouldn't put more than a 130 on a 5 string bass simply because the sound might be overwhelming. The Roto flats got moved to my SR4 fretless where they were also not good for the same reason - I subsequently discovered Ernie Ball Group 3 flatwounds which have the same tension more or less as roundwounds and are a joy to play. I would suggest that string tension may affect 5 string basses more than 4s simply because of the extra forces involved - a civil engineer mate once said when inspecting my bass, those 5th strings look like they could support a bridge - and that was in 125 form!

Here are your choices for a Musicman with a narrower (more like a Fender Jazz width at the nut) bass:- 1) Stingray SLO special - a Stingray in any standard colour, with 3 band or 2 band EQ, with 1 pick up or two (either HH or HS),with or without matching headstock, as you want. Oh and choice of maple, rosewood or pau ferro fretless board. 2) Sterling (NOT an SBMM) - smaller body than Stingray, 3 band EQ, ceramic magnets, 3 way switch giving series/parallel/single coil plus all the variations as in 1) 3) Sterling (NOT an SBMM) Classic - all as 2) above but only in 2 band EQ - no fretless available - classic colours only; flamed or birds eye maple neck. 4) Big Al - pointy shaped body (but great fit to play especially sat down), mahogany body (the very early ones were alder) - 4 band EQ (in multi pick up version - 3 band in single H version) with coil selectors, series/parallel, active/passive - multi pick up available in SSS; HH variants - all colours etc as above. Plenty of choice then The SBMM SB14 is a version of 2) above made in Indonesia - with a basswood body and fewer options. There was a SUB Sterling model - has 2 band EQ without coil tap. Hope this and the other posts help you - let us know how you get on. All of the above come up used sometimes and bargains can be had - however the Stingray SLO special, Sterling Classic and Sub Sterling are all quite rare - and especially on the used market - I've never seen a used Big Al advertised except on the MM forum. Don't worry about alternatives - quite honestly only a Musicman sounds like a Musicman and suggest you don't alter the neck you already have - the resale value will undoubtedly drop and most of the sort of people who buy Musicmans wouldn't buy it off you. Very few people modify them or even change the colour.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1338588155' post='1677059'] is a "studio sound" really relevant at all? Ultimately it's a coil of wire with a magnet and at some point it goes through something that boosts that circuit. The main difference between an active and passive bass is that happen on the bass and before the cable with an active system. There is a difference but I that's it, just a difference and not one better than the other [/quote] You are right but I also think it's relevant because we develop our own sound and style generally from influence of other people - usually their recorded sound, seldom, if ever, their live sound. I hadn't intended to start an active v passive discussion as this thread was all about how you use your on board EQ. My preference is to have one, but that's all it is - my preference - I also know I can get sounds (nice ones to my ears) out of my basses that are as much down to the basses as the playing. All that said I've heard great things about more recent passive bass tone and tone control (Warwicks; MM Big Al/Reflex to name a few) - I must try some of these. Don't get me wrong, I have a big soft spot for the P and J - just not a big enough one to spend a lot of money on one at the moment - I occassionally see a vintage custom colour one for sale and think...........hmmm one day, maybe!

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1338555243' post='1676283'] if you want to get an active bass and turn all the knobs up to full you can, and people will advise you otherwise, and one day you'll discover why and tell others, and they will probably react like a spoiled teenager who doesn't like being told what to do [/quote] Well I've been playing just on 40 yrs, and haven't owned a passive bass since about 1979 - I have dabbled with vintage Fenders occassionally. I have a number of basses and my 2 band Stingray regularly gets gigged on full bass boost and almost full treble boost - it's the sound I want to hear for the type of music I'm playing. Played in a fairly laid back way with an amp set almost flat, it sounds excellent IMO - very warm and fat. If I attacked the bass a la Flea it would probably be too much. As you reduce the EQ on the 2 band Ray, the mids boost - another type of sound is available doing that - I liken it to the bass sound on the Shine album by Average White Band. Apart from my 2 band Ray, I tend to start with basses at centre detent and then adjust 'by ear', dependent on room, genre, number of pick ups in use, coil tap selection etc etc. Some need a bit of mid boost to overcome too scooped of a natural instrument sound. I would be more worried about using an 18 volt pre amp with the bass boosted fully eg a Warwick - my Bongo would send people running to the toilet..........(cue for the bathroom equipment jokers....) having had their bowels vibrated - the bass boost is seriously that strong - I would probably lose speakers on a regular basis as well. I've played loads of passive basses but just don't like them as much - all of the guys I liked in the 70s, and who recorded using Jazzes and Precisions (eg Nate Watts on Stevie Wonder's album Songs in the Key of Life) - played them through studio preamps (Alembic in his case) so they're really not passive bass sounds at all..............and to the guy who said you get the same sound by turning your volume up with the bass EQ set on centre detent, as by fully boosting everything, well you're wrong because on many basses the individual EQ settings of treble and bass (and mid if available) interract - yes it is correct that once you get there there's nowhere further to go, but so what...........and this is only in terms of boost anyway - you can always reduce though - and the idea of cuttting EQ can also produce some great tones. Having got used to active basses over so many years, I find the idea and reality of a passive bass of the F variety rather limiting - great for a couple of specific tasks but not terribly flexible.................which is of course the reason why so many of the quality bassists of the 70s such as Jack Cassidy experimented and switched to active basses - or pumped up their 'passive' basses in the studio (Jaco's recorded bass sound is another example). My favourite bassists of all time are Bernard Edwards and Pino..........who used Musicmans (I know Pino has gone over to P basses but his tone is fantastic, much of which comes from his extraordinary skill - I believe the live sound with JMT is as much TI flats and Ampeg as it is P bass also!). The fact I can get myself to sound a bit like these guys is part down to the instrument - and yes I've tried to play We Are Family on a P bass - it just don't get close - but a 2 band Ray with flats, and EQ on full boost plus a lot of years practicing, you can.

He seemed to use that early shell pink Jazz bass with the STP sticker during one tour - I'm guessing he couldn't get the right sound for the music with it as he quickly reverted to the Modulus - in fact I saw them on the Jonathan Ross show in this era and the bass sounded very ordinary. The sound was nothing like the pumped up tone he normally gets live and is on a lot of the albums. I doubt he cares too much about damaging vintage basses cosmetically - if he did he wouldn't put a sticker on a rare bass like that. I've seen videos of him using a Musicman bass for recorded work in the last couple of years, but he has a history of using loads of different basses - Spector, Wal, Musicman, Modulus, Fender Jazz being amongst them.

Me too! Bongos are becoming much more popular - people are selling cheap copies and Guitar Centre are going to stock them. Maybe we'll get some pastel colours yet!

If you lost it, you'd want to be able to replace it - I would try and get a Policy which gets you a new replacement - clearly it can't be a black Onyx but a new Sterling with premium colour, perhaps. If you were lucky enough to find a black onyx one you could probably get that with this approach. I'm surprised to hear the comparisons between a Sterling and a Jazz - beyond the neck profile - the Sterling is basically a 4 string version of the 1992-2008 Stingray 5, electronically - far more dynamics than a Jazz owing to pick up switching ability combined with a wide range of bass, mid and treble boost and cut on the EQ - in SR5 form these have been used on countless recordings. A whole range of tones is available from smooth to harsh - they are very responsive to variety in playing/plucking style and position, as you would expect owing to the greater dynamic range. I've watched lots of comparisons of Precision v Jazz v Stingray and none explore the range of tones available on the MM bass - often showing it played with the EQ flat - in comparison the Precision and Jazz get shown with the half a dozen general stock sounds available between them. I personally prefer the range being available but still have a soft spot for the Precision and Jazz.

You guys are hilarious....................... yawn. Those look like Fender colours to me.

Fat Rich you seem to have terrible bad luck with your Stingray - I know lots of people with Stingrays and they don't ever adjust the truss rods, and they still seem to be able to play them perfectly well. My SR5 is a good case in point - I took it out to a jam session a couple of weeks back - it hadn't been used and had been stored in its case for about six months. It was still in tune and played as it should, straight out of the case. The modern Stingrays are built with far better quality control than those old 70s ones, nice as they are - the new ones also have a far superior neck attachment using 6 bolts - maybe that is the difference. Having said that I played a gig on Friday - one of the other bands had a bass player with a 76 Stingray, and he was the original owner - he has no problem of this type and the bass sounded great also - in fact the only one which sounded crap all night was a 72 Precision when it was played with the tone control fully on - the clankiness of the sound overpowered the music. Fine in bassy mode though. So maybe you just have a bad un - you could upgrade to a new one

Everything you've said about the Bongo is right Gareth. They are so versatile - just wait until you play one in a gig setting or recorded - they sit in a mix so well. In a playability sense, I've never had a problem with the painted neck - in the same way as playing Rays with lacquered necks or switching between them and standard is no problem. I find the neck profile the same as my Stingray 5. And the body shape feels great - easily the best of all the basses I've ever used over the last 40 yrs or so - but there again it should be - it wasn't designed in the 50s/60s and technology/human understanding has progressed a lot since then. I love mine - fattest and fullest tone you could ever want. I agree that a yellow one would be cool. You should get the sky blue one Gareth. [attachment=108387:17092010828.jpg] Ps I haven't been on this forum long but love the humour/banter - Bongos/toilet seats - you guys really don't know how funny you are

[quote name='mingsta' timestamp='1337097143' post='1655416'] I'm sure there are some out there!!! In fact they've just closed the books on an April only special run from premier dealerships - they were taking orders for Bongos, Rays, Reflex, Stingray with a special spec of honeyburst finish, mahogany body and roasted maple neck. I was tempted, but at ~£1800-2200 depending on model it was a bit spendy for me. [/quote] Interestingly these have a wax and oil finished birds eye maple neck (i.e not lacquered, unlike previous roasted necks) - I was very tempted as well, particularly by a mahog Ray, or a trans finish Bongo! [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1337100184' post='1655485'] Nicks guitars had some, I guess he imported them himself? [/quote] Unless he went and bought them personally from dealers in the USA he won't have been able to. However, some clearly were ordered either by individuals through dealers or dealers for stock, as I've seen at least one black sugar/roasted birds eye neck Stingray used on Ebay in UK. Worth bearing in mind that these count as limited edition - the non international sale by US dealers of EBMM guitars agreement expires in respect of limited editions after 3 yrs. There's some very nice stuff available at places like Guitar Centre and Bass Central as a result (special models created for Guitar Centre, some of which are very cool, are not included in this respect - per Sterling Ball response to query). They come up used on Ebay occassionally though.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1336908586' post='1652545'] Strictly speaking it's actually 0.025" (or 0.635 mm). I don't think that was quite what he meant though when he strung it EADGC or whatever he did. At any rate I think this mostly sounds like crap. I mean, let's be serious about this, does it make a difference? Maybe a very small amount. Does it mean you should not play a 5 string? I don't think so. If anything, I think the feel of not having that string on the bottom makes a much bigger difference to the sound than anything to do with the tension or string break off angle. [/quote] Yeah sorry the figures were wrong, but I think the point was clear (guage and neck position differences) and BB has clarified his post also. I do agree with you, we absolutely shouldn't be put off from buying a 5 string based on Paul Turner's comment. I haven't read the interview so haven't a clue what the context was but as quoted here it could mean a multitude of things - only one of them being that the open E on a 5 string neck sounds different from on a 4. The fact is Paul doesn't play a 5 very much live these days. Possibly more for recording.

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1336813282' post='1651327'] Pretty big variable there if you ask me! [/quote] Surely the biggest variable BB3000 had was tuning a 125 or 130 guage string to E and the same across the neck - an extra 25 mm string thickness will make a difference to the sound - ultra ultra heavy guage effectively. In a similar way, if you play a G on the E string at 15th fret it'll sound substantially different to an open G, although the same note (well almost ). String manufacturers make a range of guages - it's not for show they actually sound very different. [quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1336822818' post='1651540'] i dont care how good he is, hes either said this under his breath sometime, or hes talking nonsense.... i hate all these minor details to a bassists tone.... its total rubbish.. its in the playing that matters [/quote] You are right - I agree entirely.

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1336698783' post='1649787'] Where did you find them and what sort of price? I might have to give a set a go on the L2500 [/quote] I'm not permitted to tell you where I got them from - let's say I was very lucky! I would advise you try them - I was astonished at the effect on my Bongo. [quote name='Al Heeley' timestamp='1336742660' post='1650309'] With my chemists geek hat on this afternoon, Major inductrial use of cobalt is in alloying with Iron (steel) 2 main areas of application - alnico magnets and high speed cutting steel, (eg: tool bits, saws typically containing up to 5% cobalt). Before inferring from this that Cobalt would be responsible for making strings harder wearing, the cutting steel alloy is also combined with tungsten, vanadium, chromium, molybenum and carbon in additions from 1 to 6% depending on grade. It's more likely that Tungsten and Carbon are the primary contributers to cutting steel hardness, though Cobalt will also contribute otherwise they would not bother to put it in. Cobalt is also a good magnet (wikipedia tells me so, typically used at between 5 and 24% in AlNiCo magnets) and you could possibly assume that this reinforcement of a strings magnetic properties has a beneficial effect on the treble or mids of a bass string tonal qualities. I'd be interested to know how much of the tonal characteristics of a bass string comes from the method of manufacture, core and wrapping. and how much is down to the chemical composition of the alloys used. I predict that next year, other string manufacturers will follow suit with new product launches highlinging traces of other exotic metals that are normally present in steel alloys anyway, and attributing near-magical tonal properties to their presence. D'Addario Vanadiums or Rotosouond Molybdenum may be on the shelves soon, and the latter could be cause of much mis-pronunciation mirth at a music shop near you. [/quote] The packet states that the blend of iron and cobalt attracts the magnets in your pick ups more than any other alloy available - they certainly clamped on the neodymium poles on my Bongo when I put them on!. They are patents pending. In smoothness I'd say they feel somewhere between a flatwound and a roundwound. They aren't as rough feeling as a roundwound. The pic of the packet shows the comparative outputs claimed. [attachment=107703:040320121678.jpg][attachment=107702:030320121673.jpg]

I have two Musicman 5s and 3 Musicman 4s and I have never noticed a difference in the effectiveness of the E strings. The one definite difference is you can't whack the E string in the way, for example, Flea does sometimes - as you're almost certain to make the B string ring as well - a technique I had to learn playing a 5 was to constantly mute the B string when not playing it to avoid it ringing - more so than with the E string on a 4. If you're playing low Es a lot it can be easier to play them at 5th fret on the B string rather than the open E but the sound is very marginally different (an analogy is the difference playing an open A from an A on the 5th fret of the E string on a 4 string bass. Marginal but it rings differently). [attachment=107701:24042010449.jpg]

My Bongo 5HHp has had them since the beginning of March and they are still fine. They give a mid range bump - they don't sound zingy when you first use them and they wear in nicely - sounds like a no brainer to me, and my Classic Ray 2 band is next in line for them. There was an earlier post saying people had said they last less than 2 gigs - this is nonsense I'm afraid, unless you're looking for ultra zing, in which case you should be buying something else anyway, because these don't give that (unless you overboost the treble on the amp/bass)!

If you're buying your fretless, I'd stick with a four string - my experience is it takes a while to learn to play a fretless consistently in tune. It also takes a while to perfect a technique with a 5 string which includes sufficient muting to stop the low B from ringing when you're playing other notes - as well as the complexities of getting the most out of the fifth string, and maybe altering some of your patterns to play lines on a 5 string. For me, the thought of learning to play a 5 and a fretless all at once would be too much. A Squire will be fine IMO, and you may want to upgrade later if you like it. I've played jazz fretlesses and they're nice - I only own Musicman basses so my fretless is a Stingray H which I bought on Ebay at a good price - and it's an awesome instrument, and produces a great fretless sound - instant Pino sound, with the added bonus of being able to sound like a regular Stingray with a tweek of technique and EQ - I use it regularly in a couple of bands. Best of luck with your purchase.

Gotcha - yeah very Beckingham Palace!

[quote name='johnDeereJack' timestamp='1336065299' post='1640454'] [size=6][b]+++ AWESOME DESCRIPTION +++[/b][/size] [size=2]V sorry! I just read Happy Jack's +++ AWESOME +++ thread and couldn't resist [/size] [/quote] Ostentatious it is - Liberace, definitely - buying it I'm not. But where do you guys get the bathroom idea from?? I know us bass players can get into the obscurest of peculiar imagery but this is a step beyond me completely - is it some special undergraduate metaphysical language - I've come across a few of these in the past - the perpetrators usually look back with acute embarrassment a few years later. I'm new here you'll have to explain the joke - I see a lot of you play Fenders and even very expensive Fender copies - I'm guessing you all have the standard common all garden chrome taps on your historic vintage bathroom furniture?