Wiggybass

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1352112872' post='1858747'] but they're [i]really[/i] good as kindling... [/quote] 'Perfect pitch' is defined as 'The act of throwing a banjo into a skip such that it impales an accordion that is already in the skip'

SM58s are still absolutely the industry standard but not for the reasons you might think. You can buy them virtually everywhere in the world, they sound pretty consistent mic-to-mic, they're almost unbreakable, they're cheap as chips and they've been around so long that an experienced FOH or monitor engineer can do a basic channel setting for most things using an SM58 because they know how they sound. They are also one of the few mics that, if you're really stuck, can do almost [i]anything[/i] reasonably well, even high spl things like kick drums and brass. No-one thinks they're the best-sounding vocal mic (not even Shure) but as a package they are still hard to beat. There are umpteen vocal mics that sound 'better', whatever that might mean to you, because beauty really is in the ear of the beholder. Mics that have a flatter and / or wider frequency response, more useful pickup patterns, mics for specialised applications, there is a huge choice. If you have the luxury of needing to buy a mic that will be used by just one person then try as many as you can, as you'll probably find one that simply suits that voice better than others. Personally I really like the sound of EV mics (especially the RE510) but that's just me. Alternatively just buy an SM58. Everyone else has!

[quote name='BassPimp66' timestamp='1350496462' post='1839739'] Buy neutrik connectors, some quality cables and make your own cables. [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_np2c.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...eutrik_np2c.htm[/url] [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/neutrik_np2_rx.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...trik_np2_rx.htm[/url] LOTS of fun, and cheap ! [/quote] Yup, that's the way!

There are several pro-audio dealers in the UK that handle used gear - this is one of the better ones: http://www.lmcaudio.co.uk/assets/pdf/usedlmc.pdf

[quote name='DanFold' timestamp='1239481068' post='460137'] Not read what everyones put so sorry if I'm just echoing this... But you know the DI boxes you can put in between the amp and cab? Any good? I play through an Orange AD200B and it has no DI out... soooo, i heard about these DI boxes, so i can have my amp sound goin' through the desk if i cant have a mic on me cab. Cheers, Dan. [/quote] Some DIs have this facility but I don't recall seeing an active one that does (most pro DIs are active, i.e. they're powered by 48v phantom power from the console). The EMO E520 is a passive (i.e. non-powered) DI, check it out here: http://www.emosystems.co.uk/Products/PDFs/DIBoxes.pdf

Hi For all my fellow audio geeks... http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm Enjoy! DW

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1351938260' post='1857033'] In one venue the drums used to go on the opposite side of the stage to me, with the guitarist in the middle. I ran a long speaker lead to an extension cab behind the drummer so that he could hear me better. [/quote] We play a regular gig where space is so limited that I put a single 12" box either side of the kit and it's lovely. Not stereo of course but def gives a big spread of low frequency loveliness.

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1351643144' post='1853797'] I would change everything to Speakon if it was me. Far more robust connections, and almost impossible to touch or short out the connections accidentally (and speaker voltages can be enough to make you jump a bit). Jacks originated (AFIK) as telecoms connectors and were never rally designed for speaker type currents. Speakons are. You can get speakons which also take a jack connector if you want to keep your options open. [/quote] There is also the issue that Speakons use solderless connections, unlike jacks, so they can be fitted and removed (and possibly repaired) on site with simple tools or a Leatherman.

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' timestamp='1351091586' post='1847226'] So if all these bits of foam are so good, why do 99.9% of cabinets have RUBBER feet? [/quote] 'Cos they're very cheap, especially when bought in bulk. Just for fun I made my own 'Gramma' out of a bit of 3/4" ply a bit bigger than the footprint of my cab, glued a carpet tile on top and two bits of flightcase foam on the bottom, total cost about £6, works a treat in certain environments - have a go!

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350661006' post='1841991'] Thanks Wiggy, yeah we have a Sennheiser 441 mic - its a super-cardioid and it rocks, and by not putting the guitar cab directly behind it we can avoid it picking up guitar when she moves off it. Unlike the SM58 which picks up guitar, drums, backstage conversations etc. We experimented with a pressure mat triggered gate for a while but its just another thing to carry around/go wrong We have things pretty sorted with the positioning now, but as I'm right on top of my amp lifting it up a foot or so was a real benefit. [/quote]Mmmmmmm, great mic! Supposedly the only dynamic mic with 20Hz - 20kHz frequency range - very nice indeed, I hope your simnger appreciates it!

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350564035' post='1840540'] cheers, i tried it and it was awesome, but all the science talk - which went way above me I'm afraid - got me wondering if it was the right thing to do. The issue is, where I stand I'm right next to the drums and I'm in front of the guitarists Fender Twin - mostly this is so that her mic isn't facing it directly as she sings quietly so the mic is cranked. So generally I end up increasing my volume so I can hear myself, on-stage the balance is good but every gig someone usually says "you sounded really good but from where I was standing the bass was really loud and boomy". Usually i tell them to stop standing in a cubby hole at the back of the room! When I raised my speaker on top of a small combo the other night I could hear myself really well, and nobody else complained they couldn't hear me so I figured it could be the way forward! [/quote] Happy days!!! There is nothing quite like experimenting to find out what works...on a related note, you would probably make life easier for yourselves by trying some different mics for your singer, especially hypercardioid condenser models. These have a very tight pickup pattern and so are much better at 'not hearing' stuff you don't want them to. My favourite is the EV RE510 but there's quite a few about.

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1350560069' post='1840456'] So should I put my speaker on a chair or not then? [/quote] The answer is - try it. You'll find that you lose quite a bit of low-end by decoupling the cabinet from the floor but this may not bother you, or at least may matter less than not being able to hear yourself, and you can probably wind in a bit more bass using the EQ on your amp if you have to.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350460237' post='1839037'] With the long wavelengths at low frequencies being very resistant to damping from furniture etc the boundary reflections are plenty high enough in amplitude to cause what I've described. I haven't just plucked this theory out of thin air, it's a well known phenomenon, especially on the cutting edge of home audio. [/quote] I wasn't saying you picked it out of thin air - the theory is sound enough, I just think it's unlikely to be applicable in this case, but hey, it's your opinion and that's fine by me. Not often you see the phrase 'cutting edge' and 'home audio' in the same sentence either - let's not forget that is a market which has been sold the concept of mono-directional speaker cable and other such snake oil nonsense.

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1350414927' post='1838593'] Ive never been happier than with my current mesa walkabout 15 and matching extension cab, I would say they are in the lightweight cabs bracket by todays standards, but put them side by side on a stage and stand clear. They have a 12" speaker without a magnet that pumps down into the stage, it seems as though the bass comes from all directons . Whenever I ve tried stacking them though , there seems to be some sort of phase cancellation and they can sound totally limp. [/quote] Have you tried them both ways up, i.e. with the combo on top and on the bottom (no idea if thats even possible btw!)?

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350408132' post='1838449'] Yes, you can make cardioid arrays with passive cabs but as you say, you need DSP and separate amps for each part of the array. And the less accurate the cab, the further the performance will diverge from the theoretical ideal - and crank up the volume on a load of passive cabs (without DSP which compensates for voicecoil heating) and things will really diverge! But that's not massively relevant to bass cabs - the important bit is the interaction of direct and reflected waves, which you didn't say anything about because you said you didn't know why your low B could sound quiet by your rig and knock drinks over at distance tables. That is why! [/quote] I think you're on the right track but I think it's 99% to do with reflections from the floor, i.e. the effect of 'ground coupling' with LF sources and the long wavelengths they produce. There would be too much amplitude offset between direct and reflected signals coming off the walls and ceiling (especially in a room fitted with absorptive materials like carpets and curtains) for phase cancellation or summation to be an audible issue.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350408132' post='1838449'] Yes, you can make cardioid arrays with passive cabs but as you say, you need DSP and separate amps for each part of the array. And the less accurate the cab, the further the performance will diverge from the theoretical ideal - and crank up the volume on a load of passive cabs (without DSP which compensates for voicecoil heating) and things will really diverge! But that's not massively relevant to bass cabs - the important bit is the interaction of direct and reflected waves, which you didn't say anything about because you said you didn't know why your low B could sound quiet by your rig and knock drinks over at distance tables. That is why! [/quote] OK, I'll come back to that in a minute - what about dispersion (and / or the lack thereof in backline)?

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1350407046' post='1838426'] This is due to direct and reflected sounds interacting. When the direct and reflected sound are approximately in phase you get a peak at that frequency and location, when they're approximately out of phase you get a dip. It's very obvious when messing around with bass cabs in our business unit as most of the boundaries are thick concrete so you get very clear reflections - run a frequency sweep and at certain spots and frequencies it can be completely silent, take a step or two to one side and full loudness is back. LF dispersion control with bass backline isn't something I see ever happening. To get effective dispersion control you need the speakers to be incredibly accurate, so low distortion in every way possible (frequency, time, harmonics, intermodulation etc). Something like this: [url="http://www.meyersound.com/products/1100-LFC/"]http://www.meyersoun...ducts/1100-LFC/[/url] And they need to be active and you need outboard DSP to control how the speakers within the array interact. Without a carefully positioned and programmed array of low frequency speakers you can't get LF dispersion control. Better to get the increase the midrange and treble dispersion as much as possible so that the direct and reflected sounds are more similar. [/quote] Er - yeah, I think I said at least some of that - anyway, ref dispersion, my interest was piqued ref this topic in backline when you said this a few weeks ago (October 3rd in fact): [i]Yes, the player interacts with their rig, which is very different to PA usage - and arguably another reason why dispersion matters a lot with backline (even though we're one of the few companies to be focusing on its importance). If you change your playing/EQ to get your tone where you're standing, you want that tone to be heard everywhere else. That change that's happened in the PA world, realising that dispersion matters is one we're trying to pioneer in the MI world (guitar too shortly!) Our lengthy specs are here: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/uploads/barefaced-cab-specs-jan2011.jpg"]http://barefacedbass...ecs-jan2011.jpg[/url] The unEQ'd -3dB points for the cabs I was referring to are 71Hz (1x12"), 63Hz (1x15") and 44Hz (1x12"). Obviously you can change the response with EQ but that's the starting point. [/i] Interesting you use Meyer as a reference - a company I know very well! BTW it's perfectly possible to create cardioid arrays with passive (i.e. non-powered cabs), you just need full DSP control for every channel of amp.

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1350394581' post='1838196'] I'd be interested in knowing more about how people perceive low frequency sound in the nearfield - subjectively, I think bigger cabs up close do sound more 'massive' than smaller ones. High excursion and more power can compensate for larger area in terms of overall SPL but up close, a larger cab would give a more even LF dispersion over a body than smaller - however this wouldn't be significant further away. How many people find that small 'super' cabs sound more like the real thing from further away? How vibration is perceived and integrated with signals from the ear strikes me as an interesting topic and I'd be curious to try those rumble packs like the tecamp one, see what difference they made. [/quote] This, to me at least, is a [i]very[/i] interesting question, and one I've asked of various clever people (including speaker designers) without ever really getting to the bottom of it (or...maybe I just didn't understand the answer...hmmm...). Fletcher-Munson curves graphically demonstrate how fast the efficiency of our hearing tails off at low frequencies, see here: http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~guymoore/ph224/notes/lecture13.pdf (The whole thing is worth reading if you're genuinely interested) For ages I assumed that one had to be standing at least one whole wavelength away from a LF source to receive it 'in full' as it were, but apparently this is not the case. The fact is though that, certainly as regards very low frequencies (like the open B on a five-string, about 30Hz), the level standing next to my backline can be quite modest whilst knocking people's drinks over at tables twenty feet away, and I don't know why. At the same time, I've mixed FOH at a small club gig where the support act used my backline (a Markbass F1 driving a single Bergantino AE112), which filled the room so comfortably that I took it out of the PA totally. A 410 would have been louder but quite possibly no more 'massive' for that room - does that make sense? LF dispersion is a complex topic. Controlling it usefully has been perhaps the single greatest advance in PA in the last decade, but doing it takes quite a bit of DSP power, extensive control over individual enclosures and specific physical arrangements of multiple cabinets to provide 'beam steering' through selective phase cancellation. I've yet to see any bass backline equipment that even claims to provide dispersion control - and I don't think I will either!

Ahhh, horn-loaded subs, I remember those...a rare sight indeed these days.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1349440319' post='1826344'] [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm"]http://barefacedbass...isplacement.htm[/url] If you have a 2x12" cab and a 4x12" cab, both appropriately ported and both tuned to the same frequency, and the 2x12" has woofers with twice the Xmax of those woofers in the 4x12", then they'll both be able to produce the same amount of bottom (low frequency SPL). I don't know the numbers on the typical Marshall 4x12"s from the late '60s but I'd bet that our Big Baby 1x12" can produce as much true bottom, thanks to having easily three times the excursion and a ported rather than sealed cab. As long as the difference in radiating area isn't enormous (like a single 8" vs an 8x10" - because you'd run into issues with acoustic coupling) then cabs with equal volume displacement (cone area x cone excursion) will have equal ability to produce low frequency sound. [/quote] Alex, just for reference, from what frequency downwards do you consider 'true bottom' (oooerrr)? 160-ish?

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1349441382' post='1826375'] You can't calculate radiating area accurately from the speaker diameter because the surround accounts for a larger proportion of the speaker diameter the smaller you go. PA 4x10s have around 15% more radiating area that 18s - not a huge difference - but in practice have much lower excursion capabilities. An 18" thus has the potential to move a lot more air than 4 x 10s. The fact that most people believe the opposite to be true is down to their respective efficiency in the midrange. [/quote] Yup, got it - good explanation, thanks.

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1349442888' post='1826402'] But like all sealed cabs, they can given appropriate EQ! xgsjx, that's a 1W sensitivity plot - it's telling how how much air is being moved per watt but it isn't telling how anything about how many watts the cabs can handle cleanly and thus the max LF SPL available. With horn-loaded subs the volume displacement is effectively increased by the increased air pressure at the cone anyway - very different to bass cabs. [/quote] Is the T48 a horn-loaded cab, I'm not familiar with it? I know SB850s very well though, they are direct-radiating and were top of the tree in their day.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1349439823' post='1826329'] Alex already mentioned excursion, and it is worth adding that the average 18" PA driver has twice the excursion of the average 10" PA driver. But assuming equivalent amplifier power, the reference efficiency of the driver and the size of the cabinet (or the moving mass to air-load mass ratio). [/quote] OK - So is there a linear correlation between increased excursion and equivalent increase in effective radiating area? My first thought would be that greater excursion would just push the same amount of air harder, not that it would move [i]more[/i] air...

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1349438071' post='1826282'] Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on several things and radiating area is only part of it. [/quote] What are the others? Assuming equivalent amplifier power etc..

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1349437667' post='1826271'] A 15" has an area of 176, an 18" has an area of 254. Still, your point remains valid. [/quote] Sorry, quite right - put the wrong numbers in this...http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/circle-area.html DOH!!!